CSA Legendary Campaign - Minimal & Customizations Mod

[pandakraut]

Blackwater River:  Another relatively easy battle due to having a lot of extra time. I bring half a corps of artillery and snipers and let them clear the bridge defenses and then just encircle from there. Even get lucky and get a few surrenders.

Losses: 1381 (276 returned from medicine): Kills: 14881

 

 

Also, a brief post battle analysis of fighting Rio Hill against scoped rifle units with the modded damage curves.

 

[Jorlaan]

So even though I've been playing now on the rebalance mod (the changes to career skills are just too useful) and some of the strategies have to be adapted since no detached skirmishers, this thread has still given me a TON of tips and ideas.

In a way I wish I could get this mod with the career skill changes from the rebalance mod. I feel that would be my best of both worlds.

I sincerely hope you do a Union run through next like this. I'd love to see what your strategies are for those missions.

Anyways thank you for this thread and all the help it has given me! Not to mention all the other help you've given me.

[pandakraut]

Once I'm done with this campaign, I'd like to do a Union one as well. I would probably use the Rebalance mod for that play through. Good to hear that it's been helpful.

Not sure how balanced it would be but you can get something close by installing the Rebalance mod and making the following changes. Replace the Resources.Assets with the same file from the UI mod. Replace the contents of Mod/Rebalance/unitModifiers.csv with that of UnitModifiersOriginalValues.  Change the following values in the config files

AIConfigFile:
removeSizeCap, false
AIArtilleryMaxSize, 600
AIInfantryMaxSize, 2950
AICavalryMaxSize, 1050
AISkirmisherMaxSize, 1000
AIOtherMaxSize, 240
varianceMode, false

ConfigFile:
gameSpeed, 5
fastForward, 3
disableSkirmishers, false
deploySizeMultiplier, 1
timerMandatoryMultiplier, 1
timerRecommendedMultiplier, 1
mediumArtillerySpeedMultiplier, 1
heavyArtillerySpeedMultiplier, 1
artilleryShellImpact, 1
artillerySolidShotImpact, 1

This would get the you base game weapon and perks(though perks would still be using the modded names). Battles would still end later when the end of day timer is the limiting factor as that isn't currently configurable in 1.24(will be in 1.3 but that's a ways out). You'll also be able to build cavalary, artillery, and skirmisher units to the same size as the AI does. I expect you'll end up with way to much money given the cheaper officers and weapons in the base game, but if that sounds interesting I think it should be functional at least.

[Jorlaan]

Thank you for the info I'll try some experimentation after my current CSA campaign.

As I've been playing more of the rebalance mod I've gotten used to many of the changes to balance, but I do in some ways prefer the unmodded weapons. Career points are to me undeniably better in relalance, especially the improvements to training, recon and logistics. Unit perks are a bit of a toss up, I like both the vanilla and modded perk options, although the mod seems expands on their usefulness a bit and allows for a little better specialization. I am sad the exp changes in rebalance knocked many generals down to colonel, makes it a bit harder to get those generals rolling with what seems like greatly increased officer wounding and death chances.

So yeah definitely need to experiment around later. I am always on a quest to find my perfect version of any game I play where modding is a thing. As it is I am having a good damn deal of fun with this game and I've almost become mildly obsessed with it, I've barely played anything else for a month. Normally after a week of a new game I pull back a bit and go back and forth between a few, but this has taken over it seems. Although leaving it running most of the day and coming back to it every now and then has BALLOONED my play time lol. 

This is easily the best American Civil War game I've ever played though. One of the best tactical wargames period. I've heard rumors of Napoleon and gods I hope that's true.

[pandakraut]

The mod definitely doesn't change the officer wounding/death chances(though it might in the future). Just bad luck if it seems worse, not that this explanation makes it less frustrating when it happens

Edited January 20, 2019 by pandakraut

[pandakraut]

Chancellorsville: Camp video with a discussion of how much money should be stockpiled and the trade offs of doing so. With this in mind I spend a bit more on veterans and stockpile more weapons as 10 economy allows me to sell them back at cost. I also setup nearly a full corps worth of extra units to swap in and get around the 2 corps restriction.

 

 

 

On day one I setup to ambush all three Union reinforcement columns to mixed success. I am able to do decent damage to their artillery in the middle as well. On day two I pick off the easily accessible units while defending and trying to kill as much artillery as possible. On day three I setup a ring of artillery and slowly push the camp in. Casualties are higher than they should be due to multiple misplays on my part, but overall an acceptable result.

Losses: 11218(2244 returned from medicine) Kills: 45595

 

 

Salem Church: I swap in fresh units and plan to bunch the AI up to take away their 3:1 infantry advantage while taking out their artillery from behind. It's a bit touch and go for a while, but a good result overall.

Losses: 2055(411 returned from medicine) Kills: 16008

 

[FrankHan]

I really like your videos and I learned a lot. However in several videos I think you play bit gamey by being aware of the enemy's spawn points / mobilization areas. Would be nice to see if you played a bit more historical using less exploits. 

I try to play my games with a few house rules I.e playing a bit in the blind not having the foresight you get from playing the game so much. 

Can't wait to see your Gettysburg though.

[pandakraut]

55 minutes ago, FrankHan said:

I really like your videos and I learned a lot. However in several videos I think you play bit gamey by being aware of the enemy's spawn points / mobilization areas. Would be nice to see if you played a bit more historical using less exploits. 

I try to play my games with a few house rules I.e playing a bit in the blind not having the foresight you get from playing the game so much. 

Can't wait to see your Gettysburg though.

For legendary, exploits that involve prior knowledge don't bother me to abuse. To a certain extent the odds are stacked against the player, so in my opinion any advantage the player can gain is viable to exploit. My goal is to try and wipe out the enemy force in every battle(more difficult for the CSA than the Union) so anything that makes that process more efficient is fair game.

That said, there are actually a number of exploits that I'm not using. Supply bugs to get free money, merging units to get free high quality rifles, blocking or baiting with surrendered troops, crossing rivers that are supposed to be impassable, and the multiple detached skirmisher glitches which trivialize even legendary.

Playing historically would in many ways require me to make the same mistakes that were made in the past. Once I start using knowledge which a commander experiencing the battle for the first time wouldn't there isn't much difference to me between knowing the mistakes of the historical battle and knowing how the AI units will deploy. I do aim to give a basic description of the default strategies when I'm using something unorthodox, but those have been pretty well documented by others at this point.

On a different note. You may enjoy the variance feature in the Rebalance mod. It adds more randomization to enemy unit stats, weapons, and sizes as well as a random chance for enemy units to duplicate. This can lead to very unexpected situations sometimes as the AI is less constrained by the default scripting when it has extra units.

[pandakraut]

Brandy Station: No tricks for this battle, just a frantic defense with units that don't like standing still. One of the infantry units chose a fortunate path that made things a bit easier so I was able to get a bit of extra damage done.

Losses: 4641(0 of own troops) Kills: 8301

 

Campaign stats up to Gettysburg:

Losses: 129184 Minus allies: 93512 Minus Medicine: 84501
Kills: 620162

Kill ratio with all casualties: 4.80
Kill ratio with allies and medicine removed: 7.34

[pandakraut]

Alternate Brandy Station: After realizing that there is a huge amount of extra time after the timer runs out I decided to go back and see if I could full clear the battle. It was a near thing but I end up getting rid of most of the enemies units with a few intact units of cavalry and slowly clean up from there.

Barely worth the effort compared to the first attempt, but was a fun challenge to pull off. 

Losses: 4583 (0 of own men): Kills: 12650

 

 

 

[pandakraut]

Gettysburg: A brief camp overview of my army going into Gettysburg. I will be splitting the battle up into multiple videos this time.

Losses: 8899 (1780 returned from medicine) Kills: 64285

 

 

Day 1: I bring in as much artillery as I can get away with and stay hidden until the rest of my units arrive. Goal is to inflict as many artillery losses as possible with minimal losses of my own.

 

Day 2: Standard flank to capture the round tops and then defend against the reinforcements. I then give up the VP to be able to go to the next phase.

 

Culps Hill: At the end of day 2 I setup to get behind the union position and inflict as many casualties as possible while clearing out the remaining artillery. On day 3 getting to the artillery isn't really possible so I draw out and weaken the units not in fortifications.

 

Day 3 and Day 4: I bring in as much artillery as possible and use snipers to get vision on the enemy artillery. Goal is to clear out all enemy artillery and farm the good cannon they have as well as getting a lot of xp to go back into the recruit pool. The usefulness of going to day 4 is debatable. I end it a bit early to avoid having to deal with the mass cavalry reinforcements.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by pandakraut

[pandakraut]

Siege of Jackson: I beef up my infantry to 1400 to account for the relatively small number of brigades I am bringing in. In place of more infantry or counter battery artillery I bring an entire division of snipers to go behind the lines and take out the enemy artillery. 

Losses: 3363(672 returned from medicine) Kills: 26358

 

 

[pandakraut]

Chickamauga: On day 1 I try to get rid of as many skirmish units as possible. On day 2 I mostly try to stay hidden while grinding down the Union forces until my second corps arrives. Once they come in I take advantage of the gap in the Union line and setup a defensive line to trap all of the reinforcements. Eventually I get bored and start closing in a pocket so very little is left to mop up on day 3.

Losses: 10130(2026 returned from medicine) Kills: 57074

 

[pandakraut]

Mansfield: I trade time for kills in a battle with no time limit to secure a good chunk of manpower for the coming battles.

Losses: 1459(292 returned from medicine) Kills: 21724

 

 

[Jamesk2]

Hmm this is really good. Even though I did find some of your tactical choices in the early campaign not as optimized as some I personally used, your usage of cavalry/detached skirmishers to take out Union artillery and stray units is really eye-opening (although in some cases arguably gamey), as well as the fact that you always aggressively push your attack into logical conclusion.

However I do wonder how much does using a min-sized brigade size affect the difficulties of your campaign (I play with 2000-sized brigade)?

[pandakraut]

4 hours ago, Jamesk2 said:

Hmm this is really good. Even though I did find some of your tactical choices in the early campaign not as optimized as some I personally used, your usage of cavalry/detached skirmishers to take out Union artillery and stray units is really eye-opening (although in some cases arguably gamey), as well as the fact that you always aggressively push your attack into logical conclusion.

Can you comment more specifically on where you would use different tactics? I'm definitely interested in having that conversation. 

I absolutely abuse many mechanics in the game in pursuit of finishing battles as cleanly as possible. Finding out ways to completely break the AI and trivialize the battles is an interesting challenge to me. I'm assuming that you're mostly talking about the spawn camping though. It's basically impossible for me not to take advantage of knowing how the battles play out in some way so I don't see the point in actively deploying my troops into what I know will be a bad situation. I don't think any of these tactics are necessary to complete the campaign, but the standard approaches to battles are pretty well documented on youtube already, so I wouldn't be adding much by showing those. 

There are several exploits that I do consider a step to far and have not shown, but where that line is will definitely vary by player.

 

4 hours ago, Jamesk2 said:

However I do wonder how much does using a min-sized brigade size affect the difficulties of your campaign (I play with 2000-sized brigade)?

It really varies by battle, but from comparing against Ray RiverssGaming and Something Compass's campaigns the main difference is that I usually face anywhere from a few thousand to 10-15k less infantry. The other unit types also get pushed up a bit by this, but that is harder to directly quantify. How much of this is due to the random campaign variables affecting things is hard to tell.

The difficulty impact of this depends on if you're playing the straight base game, or the UI mod that I am using. In the base game the large skirmisher and artillery units do about as much damage as a minimum size unit, so increasing their size(or infantry since the scaling is related) actually makes the game easier. Having that bug fixed is a noticeable difficulty increase.

While facing more infantry can make some battles harder, you also can gain more experience and capture more guns for very little increase in losses in many cases. Though with how tight the CSA timers are it will also be harder to full clear maps since you have that many more men to grind down even after you completely surround them.

With the larger units I would think politics becomes a higher priority as does trying to make sure you get the max recruit return from captures in every battle. In some cases larger units would definitely have been a good idea, the side battles post Shiloh for example. I don't see much reason to ever go much above 1500 though unless I'm just making a pure recruit melee brigade. I don't like how clunky the larger units feel and it starts to get harder to fit them into cover and have them close enough to support each other. Also the ranged damage benefit drops off pretty hard past 1500 so I wouldn't get much benefit out of it with the way I play.

Here are some sample numbers of damage output by size. 
1000 men does ~30 damage per volley. 
1250 does ~34
1500 does ~37
2000 does ~38 

Edited February 22, 2019 by pandakraut

[Jamesk2]

So here is the tactics I would use for the early battle:

Potomac Fort: I would set up Kemper/Sigrfried behind the Union reinforcement advance (avoid crossing the river) and then use Hexamer to draw the Union reinforcement towards them. If the Union was sufficiently broke, I'll then move Hexamer to the farm and block them from that position, freeing up infantry to join attack on the fort. If not, I'll set up a 2nd defensive battle at the river before attacking. The main attack on the fort will come from the right with 3 fresh brigades, while own units provide flanking from the south and cavalry attack the artillery.

In the defend phase, I'll combine Kemper/Sigfried to hold the fort, using detached skirmishers to draw Union charges preliminary and keep their attention away from the fort. This one I think is 50/50, if it works it really works well, but not as consistent as rushing out to meet them as you do.

[Jamesk2]

For Newport News main difference is I would take 3 infantry brigades with 2 1k Mississippi ones and remaining Springfield. 

At Bull Run I would have bring 3 big infantry brigades to completely block all attempt from the right (the raw unit hold the centre, the experienced one provide flanking support), with a 3-Inch Ordnance battery to counter Union batteries.

In the left flank I would arrange my defensive line like that to hold the Union for as long as possible while the right-wing continue to maul the Union, and only retreat when there is about 20 minutes left in the counter (enough for the artillery to retreat). I think the "retreat to Henry ASAP" strategy is helped by the fact that Jackson still come right at the beginning of the 2nd phase (which I didn't know would happen). If Jackson come later then that would invalidate the whole strategy

 

[Jamesk2]

At Stay Alert I will bring 2 batteries (1 24-pdr) and hold this patch of forest. Union cavalry will from time to time capture the point but then I'll just walk out and capture it back.

[Jamesk2]

At Shiloh I will still only bring 2 artillery, meaning I would have a lot more infantry (8 brigades if I'm correct) than you at the start. I didn't have to "dance" with the Union skirmishers like you do, just advance in a 4-brigade abreast line and slowly push them back with superior range (it used to be that the Union skirmishers bring Whitworth and being a total PITA but now that's not the case).  At the river line I would divide them up in to several groups and advance like this, with the "X" marking the "kill zones" where I would trap advancing Union troops or surrounding Union fixed positions. By having a brigade advancing up the woods next to the Union big camp, you can lure the Union camping on the right side to come to the flat ground to be flanked and sped up the advance a lot.

On the right flank, interestingly I would do somewhat similar to you by avoiding to take the Spain Field early. But I only do that so that I have time to concentrate all units of the right flank very close to the edge of the map. When the Hornet's Nest phase happen I will make a mad dash to take the crescent wood on the left side of the Nest itself, then move my troops behind the wood (screened from the Union viewpoint) and arrive between the Nest and Harrison's Landing, blocking Union withdrawal from the Nest, then take my command and whatever brigade still unoccupied from the right to blitz straight toward the Landing and capture it.

This strategy was born back in a version when the AI Confed troops are only 12k instead of 24k, and you can randomly get hit by unlucky roll in Legendary, making Union troops far outnumber you on the right flank. In this version I think it's debatable between yours and mine which one is better (mine preserve more troops, but yours rake in a ton of weapons from dead allies and enemies). But at least my plan is more aesthetically pleasing (seriously, Shiloh is still my most favorite battle of the game since I discover this strategy, as playing it make you feel like you're Alexander at Gaugamela or the Manstein at the Battle of France) and close to the original strategy from Johnston. 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Jamesk2

[pandakraut]

I think the core of the differences in how we approach the missions might mostly due to how much the Rebalance mod changed how I approached missions. It takes me a while before I really start playing the base game more optimally again. No detached skirmishers to abuse and rifle damage goes down quite a bit so you can't rely on it as much. Having cavalry available to get rid of artillery is also more important than in the base game.

At the start of Potomac Fort, do you bypass the skirmishers guarding the river entirely then? Or are you driving them out with detached skirmishers? Skipping the contested river crossing is definitely worth considering. That section can go poorly so easily and end up getting crocker damaged beyond the point that he is useful. I'll have to try your way the next time.

At Bull Run I've never tried those positions on the left. Not sure about that spot, but it does seem like it'd protect your bridge force from getting flanked like sometimes happens. Usually I am able to bait the units on the left into attacking the northern point of the river. Normally I hold the bridge for much longer but when so many units slide over to the ford I usually just pull back rather than risking getting caught up there.

I haven't tried the full VP give up on Stay Alert. If it works more consistently than the skirmisher line I might use that instead. You still full clear the map with it? The skirmisher line is amazing when it works perfectly, but as you saw in the video if the ghost cav bug happens you're somewhat screwed.

[pandakraut]

I've never considered a full right flank at Shiloh, could see that working though. Would be less fun with a mod that fixes the gunboat damage to be relevant. Not sure how far you've made it in the campaign, but you'll find that I often bring a minimum of infantry.  Part of this is play style to minimize losses(artillery and snipers deal damage for free) part of it is that with the UI mod I'm using those max size artillery batteries really really hurt and I want to be able to get rid of them without having to close to rifle range.

[Jamesk2]

2 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

I think the core of the differences in how we approach the missions might mostly due to how much the Rebalance mod changed how I approached missions. It takes me a while before I really start playing the base game more optimally again. No detached skirmishers to abuse and rifle damage goes down quite a bit so you can't rely on it as much. Having cavalry available to get rid of artillery is also more important than in the base game.

At the start of Potomac Fort, do you bypass the skirmishers guarding the river entirely then? Or are you driving them out with detached skirmishers? Skipping the contested river crossing is definitely worth considering. That section can go poorly so easily and end up getting crocker damaged beyond the point that he is useful. I'll have to try your way the next time. 

At Bull Run I've never tried those positions on the left. Not sure about that spot, but it does seem like it'd protect your bridge force from getting flanked like sometimes happens. Usually I am able to bait the units on the left into attacking the northern point of the river. Normally I hold the bridge for much longer but when so many units slide over to the ford I usually just pull back rather than risking getting caught up there.

I haven't tried the full VP give up on Stay Alert. If it works more consistently than the skirmisher line I might use that instead. You still full clear the map with it? The skirmisher line is amazing when it works perfectly, but as you saw in the video if the ghost cav bug happens you're somewhat screwed. 

Aside from Potomac Fort, Bull Run (where I take 1 detached skirmisher to guard the ford north of the bridge) and Ambush Convoy (where I use skirmisher to capture attention of the escort brigades, allow the cavalry to sweep in and take the convoy from the flank) I don't use detached skirmisher in any other battle. Too much cluttering for my taste!

At Potomac Fort I skipped fighting the river section entirely. If I'm really unlucky then an Union skirmisher will deal 20-30 kills to my brigades when I'm crossing, but most of the time it's fine.

Yeah I think I still full clear Stay Alert. I'll return to my game computer later and pull out stats to compare with yours.

[Jamesk2]

1 minute ago, pandakraut said:

I've never considered a full right flank at Shiloh, could see that working though. Would be less fun with a mod that fixes the gunboat damage to be relevant. Not sure how far you've made it in the campaign, but you'll find that I often bring a minimum of infantry.  Part of this is play style to minimize losses(artillery and snipers deal damage for free) part of it is that with the UI mod I'm using those max size artillery batteries really really hurt and I want to be able to get rid of them without having to close to rifle range. 

Ah you misunderstood me here. I don't do full right flank, I do full centre rush (as in, my command advance through the right edge and the AI would advance through the left edge. It's a little difficult to show the maneuver on map as you don't fight around Hornet Nest but here it would look like the main avenue to approach the VP, with positions to screen the advance and block Union retreat shown.

[pandakraut]

16 minutes ago, Jamesk2 said:

Aside from Potomac Fort, Bull Run (where I take 1 detached skirmisher to guard the ford north of the bridge) and Ambush Convoy (where I use skirmisher to capture attention of the escort brigades, allow the cavalry to sweep in and take the convoy from the flank) I don't use detached skirmisher in any other battle. Too much cluttering for my taste!

You're missing out, they are ridiculous even before you get into the exploits

8 minutes ago, Jamesk2 said:

Ah you misunderstood me here. I don't do full right flank, I do full centre rush (as in, my command advance through the right edge and the AI would advance through the left edge. It's a little difficult to show the maneuver on map as you don't fight around Hornet Nest but here it would look like the main avenue to approach the VP, with positions to screen the advance and block Union retreat shown.

Ahh, I see what you were saying with your original Shiloh comment now. That's how I used to do it as well, but I wanted to see if I could inflict more casualties with similar losses to the troops that I keep and I think I mostly succeeded at that. My intention was to have the left flank mostly wrapped up, move those units to take the woods near the landing when it opens and then cap the VP with a few minutes to spare. Going to day 2 was absolutely not expected. I tried it on a test run and wrote it off as not feasible with reasonable casualties in fact. Happy that I managed to pull it off on my actual attempt though, made for a good video.