The Definitive Suggestion on Repairs

[Slim McSauce]

This is my fully fledged out, completely thought through, definitive suggestion on repairs. I've been advocating this for a long time, but only now have I come up with the solution that I believe in my heart is THE best solution for the repair situation, mostly the same but with a slight twist.

Number of repairs per battle

I haven't quite pinned this down, my first thought is 3 repairs total, shared rig and hull. So in any given battle you can choose to either do 2 hull and 1 rig, 1 rig and 2 hull, or 3 hull and/or 3 rigs, but only up to 3 repairs total, depending on the battle if you need more hull reps you can use more hull reps, or if you sails you can pop 2 sail reps to get you back into battle, and if you happen to lost masts and a large area of sail you have the ability to pop all 3 repairs into sail to save you from certain death. Here's the deal, you can only afford 1 big mistake and that's it, it'll be up to you not to lose 20 masts within a battle.

Timer between repairs

This is not my idea, but it's a very good one if you hear it out. 1 minute between repairs.
I know, probably a shocking thing to suggest, but here's why it works and works well.
Say you're unlucky or find yourself out of position and get double dismasted or canoed in a single punishing broadside. Instead of repairing once to 40% sail, slowly crawling away for 10 minutes before popping the other rep to get you back into battle, you can pop 2 reps back to back and be right back into the battle with little delay. The reason this works is because in return for being able to use all your repairs in one big burst, you only get those 3 repairs. So if you have to use 2 repairs at once, you only have 1 repair left to sustain you through the battle before you have to disengage or run for your life. It goes hand in hand with the option of how well you use your repairs, not how many you can use.

Urgent Repairs, the last bastion of hope.

Here's the twist that really puts it all together. The last thing anybody wants, and what was the #1 problem with single repair battles of the past is that equal opponents end up demasting each other, stuck in place with 0 repairs left just floating around unable to do anything, or battles just being a demast fest in general.

This is the topper on the cake. Urgent repairs along with doing what they normally do, repair 10% of sail per use on regular timer upped to 15 minutes or so. This is about equal to the % of sail a topmast gallant or royal topsail gallant gives you. This keeps battles from ending on who demasts their opponents and drains their repairs out, you always have a chance to get away by jerry rigging up some sail, added on top of your normal sail repairs which may be used quickly no matter what even if you're canoed there's still slight hope in the right circumstance. As well as being good suplimentary repair for extended battles, allowing you to focus more on hull reps as long as you can maintain damage taken on your sails.

That's it, hope you enjoy  

 

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Kejsaren]

Not bad idea but.. would make battles in reinforcement zones even more punishing for the attacker. If that is what we want then fine.

 

Let's say I attack an enemy in his reinforcement zone, an even battle and after long fight I am finally about to win, but we all used up our repairs. Now suddenly 5 more enemy players enter...

 

My enemy is sinking but sails are down to 50%, hull damaged... low on crew...

I'm done, the moment they enter the battle it's over.

 

 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Ra Mhotep said:

Not bad idea but.. would make battles in reinforcement zones even more punishing for the attacker. If that is what we want then fine.

 

Let's say I attack an enemy in his reinforcement zone, an even battle and after long fight I am finally about to win, but we all used up our repairs. Now suddenly 5 more enemy players enter...

 

My enemy is sinking but sails are down to 50%, hull damaged... low on crew...

I'm done, the moment they enter the battle it's over.

Good point, maybe a good reason why battles in reinforcement zone should be avoided. But that's a whole nother issue right there. Maybe save 1 repair before deciding to tactfully disengage to avoid this situation? Or take the chance that no ones shows or you can secure the kill before reinforcements arrive. It's your call.

[Kejsaren]

Well since 90% of the times I hit someone in reinforcement zone more enemies show up, then it would make almost impossible to hunt there and we might aswell just make those zones pvp free instead.

 

But if make them pvp free zones then we kill off 90% of the open sea pvp activity in the game, and be left with either port battles or patrol zones.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Ra Mhotep

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Ra Mhotep said:

Well since 90% of the times I hit someone in reinforcement zone more enemies show up, then it would make almost impossible to hunt there and we might aswell just make those zones pvp free instead.

 

But if make them pvp free zones then we kill off 90% of the open sea pvp activity in the game, and be left with either port battles or patrol zones.

again, that's a whole different problem not mutually relevant to repairs.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Kejsaren]

5 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

again, that's a whole different problem not mutually connected to repairs.

 I'm all for it, you have good ideas there. Just highlighting another issue that will arise if implementing what you suggested. But, just another problem to solve.

 

I like the ideas, thumbs up.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Ra Mhotep

[Sir Loorkon]

There are many threads about repairs and many good arguments pro and con. I like it the way it is now. Your idea ist good, the current system is better. It should stay as it is.

[Slim McSauce]

21 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

There are many threads about repairs and many good arguments pro and con. I like it the way it is now. Your idea ist good, the current system is better. It should stay as it is.

and like many people you just say things are better without giving any rhyme or reason. how is anybody suppose to take your opinion seriously?

[Kejsaren]

The thing about limited repairs that I find interesting is the strategic aspect that it brings. Right now, using repairs wisely is already important, using right repair at the right time can determine the outcome of the battle. With limited repairs it's taking it to another level.

However, on a negative point it might make the gap between new players and experienced ones even wider, the more complex the more difficult to compete with the "vets", and I would be cautious not to make that "gap" too wide.

A new player is already completely and utterly defenseless against a veteran no matter how hard he will try to win a fight he will not. Becoming "competitive" against other players takes long time of training.

 

It's not like CoD where a new player can get lucky with his shots and kill a very skilled opponent. Luck only comes into account when players are about the same skill level, if I meet an inexperienced player I can make 10 mistakes and still I won't loose. If i meet a veteran i probably can't afford making a single one.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Ra Mhotep

[TheHaney]

6 hours ago, Ra Mhotep said:

But if make them pvp free zones then we kill off 90% of the open sea pvp activity in the game, and be left with either port battles or patrol zones.

Not really an issue anymore given the new gameplay loop mechanics.

7 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

That's it, hope you enjoy  

Generally like the concept but I'd simplify it even more: 3 repairs total, and Urgent Repair also replaces any lost masts.

[Aster]

I would rather a constant very slow repair rather then limited repairs. The current system is what base 25% repair 12 min cooldown. Why not repair then 2% a min base and nerf repair mods if they are to powerful. I think this would solve a few issues namely when someone is shot down to 0% structure but because they had their repair going they repair from the dead.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Aster

[Sir Loorkon]

6 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

and like many people you just say things are better without giving any rhyme or reason. how is anybody suppose to take your opinion seriously?

Why should I give redundant reasons in every thread?

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

Why should I give redundant reasons in every thread?

because if you only say its a bad idea no one would know what other players like. If i can ask you the same question in a different way, what do you think is good with the current system?

[Slim McSauce]

17 hours ago, Ra Mhotep said:

The thing about limited repairs that I find interesting is the strategic aspect that it brings. Right now, using repairs wisely is already important, using right repair at the right time can determine the outcome of the battle. With limited repairs it's taking it to another level.

However, on a negative point it might make the gap between new players and experienced ones even wider, the more complex the more difficult to compete with the "vets", and I would be cautious not to make that "gap" too wide.

A new player is already completely and utterly defenseless against a veteran no matter how hard he will try to win a fight he will not. Becoming "competitive" against other players takes long time of training.

 

It's not like CoD where a new player can get lucky with his shots and kill a very skilled opponent. Luck only comes into account when players are about the same skill level, if I meet an inexperienced player I can make 10 mistakes and still I won't loose. If i meet a veteran i probably can't afford making a single one.

the good thing about this system is you're on the same level as the veteran, you won't be getting outrepaired, there's tangible progress to be made if you can last in a 1v1 and he uses one repair and you use 3 and sink, say next time your force him to use two repairs, then three, now you've effectively broke his tank and have exposed the soft belly under his armor. Once you reach that point you can be confident you can handle yourself. There is no worrying about DPS, you can focus on positioning and gunnery and not about his next repair that saves him, again and again like happens now.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Sea Archer]

I liked the old system with one repair for hull and one for rigging. Same chance for both players, and no building up the ship several times during battle. 

 

[Hethwill]

18 minutes ago, Sea Archer said:

I liked the old system with one repair for hull and one for rigging. Same chance for both players, and no building up the ship several times during battle. 

 

In 1v1 aye. But what squadron versus one ? RIP brave captain...

[Slim McSauce]

36 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

In 1v1 aye. But what squadron versus one ? RIP brave captain...

And in squadron v squadron? Even better. The only reason we don't do limited repairs is because of the gank issue, which devs refuse to see so we have sub-par repair system that holds battles too long, and wastes a lot of time.

It's really simple, instead of balancing combat around ganks, balance it around even fights, which will lend more to realism and not super ships with insane captains who can pull off the impossible x3. It's crazy nuts how the battles in game are so based on numbers, speed, boarding, armor, I don't think the average NA player can even fathom using tactics of the time to position yourself, and gunnery to win a battle

Edited December 7, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Hethwill]

4 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

And in squadron v squadron? Even better. The only reason we don't do limited repairs is because of the gank issue, which devs refuse to see so we have sub-par repair system that holds battles too long, and wastes a lot of time.

Gank issues exist in every open wargame/combat multiplayer title. Is not a NA issue. Please do not make it like it is NA exclusive.

And NA is not arena game.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Gank issues exist in every open wargame/combat multiplayer title. Is not a NA issue. Please do not make it one.

You sound blind, or willingly ignorant. Yes ganking is an issue in EVERY open world game. No NA is not immune to this. See? You straight up proved my point! You're not looking to find the solution you're trying to hide the problem!

Edited December 7, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Hethwill]

I am consciously blind and ignorant to "i want this game to be the game it isn't" type of replies.

PvP is and comes in whatever form and shape in NA. Accept it, enjoy it, embrace the wild west or wait for Duel events. 

Best of respect, snappy salute.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

I am consciously blind and ignorant to "i want this game to be the game it isn't" type of replies.

PvP is and comes in whatever form and shape in NA. Accept it, enjoy it, embrace the wild west or wait for Duel events. 

Best of respect, snappy salute.

You're one of those "everything's fine" type players. You don't believe NA can be improved.. Sorry I can't be content like you, there's a right way and a wrong way to go about some things and NA is the first game of it's kind and it should be done right because it's the only game we have. If you like stacks of repairs and gank or be ganked gameplay with unrealistic damage, accuracy and physics then you're only accepting less than you deserve.

[Slim McSauce]

1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

Im sorry man but with one dura ship the fights should last longer than before.

Hours for crafting a ship that you could lose in some mins because you arent allowed to make any mistakes. Really man, at this rate we will see a 50 pop.

It's not all black and white you know? We can hit somewhere in the middle with no repairs and infinite repairs?
If not combat will always be "off" from the mark, being grounded from the principle that repairing being spared and used wisely is the way to go.
Infinite repairs is gamey, therefore everything that stems from it is gamey from damage model, speeds, ship wood values, fire severity, mast health, cannon accuracy,  everything.
How do you expect ships to ever be balanced when you can repair yourself the amount to build another ship to fight with. We're basically running on 2-3 ships per battle with how many repairs are used. Yet you can sit here and say it's "okay the way it is" meanwhile population is dropping and only people with DLC ships are sticking around because the game is worthy of so little investment in time. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Intrepido said:

We have enough hardcore changes, thx. I think is not bad to have some gamey features.

I can tell you aren't thinking because you call it a "hardcore" change.
You don't realize that 3 repairs is generous and that NA's combat works best with 1 repair (NA:Legends)
Which strangely aims more for realism than NA OW.

I firmly believe you're an average player who doesn't know what he wants, let alone know what's good for the game since 80% would willingly optimize the fun out of the game they play. You can always tell these types of players because they have nothing to say other than "it's fine, it's fine"
You've forgot what NA is about.

 

Edited December 7, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Intrepido said:

You can max repair 6 times (due to battle time) between rig and hull so not an incredible difference if you say 3 hull repairs and 3 rig repairs.

Personally, I choose freedom. It will help casual and new players too.

"Freedom"

you really don't know what you're talking about.
Repairs effect all margin of player from the brand new to the experienced, same with any other balancing factor. You don't add anything to the bell curve, you either expand it or shrink it. 6 Repairs helps the veteran player many times more than it helps the casual noob. While the noob tries to survive on repairs, the veteran gets the kill with repairs. 

Now give each side 1 repair what happens? The vet still wins, of course. But what can the noob do? Well he can get fortunate and manage to down a masts and get away after some chain. That's easier to do  than take down 6 masts in order to get away right? Yes.

1 repair is too little though, obviously we want to afford some mistake. So 3 repairs? Ok, the noob has to actually fight a bit to award an escape. Say he gets a lucky chain broadside on the enemies sails, rigging shock he's down to 68% sails, which he has to repair. Nice you managed to clock one of his repairs off. Do that two more time without having your own repairs taken, and you've effectively won the right to get away.

These are both better than 6 repairs which of which isn't a prime number, therefore by nature is unbalanced and should not be used.
 

Edited December 7, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Sea Archer]

When I started, I was perfectly fine with 1 repair. If the noob can repair several time the vet can too. Where is the advantage?