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Loot pickup - and punishment for loot pickup proposal


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With battles except in PVP zone closing in 3 minutes, I can’t imagine this is going to be a constant problem. Sail with those you trust. This patch makes cooperative gameplay more important than ever. And somewhere I read @admin statement that this patch brings us closer to clan warfare. [crossed fingers]

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@admin You already have mechanics with enemy ship after successfully boarding. Why do not make this mechanics for loot? The ship which make maximum damage can loot or she can make ship avail

Every ship matter now. Every ship you see in the open world (even NPCs) could carry something valuable and is worth trying to attack. It will be very disappointing if someone joins your battle an

3 minutes ago, Farrago said:

With battles except in PVP zone closing in 3 minutes, I can’t imagine this is going to be a constant problem. Sail with those you trust. This patch makes cooperative gameplay more important than ever. And somewhere I read @admin statement that this patch brings us closer to clan warfare. [crossed fingers]

Literally any scrub of my faction can enter my battle and do such things. He would just see swords in open world and join.

It was R-zone. We had @Bodye joining pirate side at the very end. 

Edited by Beeekonda
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3 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

Literally any scrub of my faction can enter my battle and do such things. He would just see swords in open world and join.

It was R-zone. We had @Bodye joining pirate side at the very end. 

You’re right. Sorry. I forgot about battle in the Reinfircement Zone staying open. I’m rarely there. I stand corrected. Good luck keeping the scrubs away from your loot. The rules as announced will be difficult to fulfill. 

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The proposal in the original post is much too complex.

The best option I read was for the player, credited with the kill, to be able to unlock the captured ship.

If the OP proposal is implimented it would be smart to just avoid all combat with friendly players, just to be sure you don't get sunk by your own nation, or dragged into a tribunal.  Way too  complicated rules and subjective evaluations.  A formula for raging and agruments.

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I suggest what already mentioned before..

The player credited the kill, gets the right to loot, if he leave the battle or die the loot is free to take for everyone.

Theres one more important thing worth to mention here!

I played many MMO including POTBS and EVE-online, all had their own rules for looting and worked great in that environment, but its whole different in NA.

Its very hard (if not impossible) to get loot in time with anything bigger than a 5th rate, especially in pvp or large  AI battles where you go up against multiple opponents.

Basically you have to plan your whole tactics around looting if you want to get anything from the sinking wrecks and i think thats a bad game design.

 

My suggestion is to make looting easier, increase the range of looting to 100m+ or anything works and remove the speed restriction.

I know its not realistic but its don't have to be anyways, the gameplay is much more important in this case.

This will resolve all the problems with looting, no more wasting of 10 minutes sailing around to grab the loot if you even have a chance before all wrecks sunk and you can get your well deserved reward for your efforts (if you can take it home).

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21 hours ago, Dragonfire said:

I like the only person that can loot it is the one credited with the kill unless they release it. Best solution.

 

21 hours ago, admin said:

it is under consideration too and easy to do. But it will be frustrating in large battles where you rely on your friends picking up loot and repairs from sinking enemies (as you need to click on target and free derelicts and almost no-one knows this

 

The best solution would be to give loot to ships which participated in the kill relative to damage they've done, and provide the loot to them automatically after battle, without a need of looting, which is simply a boring activity with multiple issues.

Imagine that two nations fight a third. A player from first nation did 49% damage, a player from a second one did 51% and got a kill. It's unfair that first one got nothing. It's also unfair that enemy can bring a fast requin to loot all your kills, denying you reward. It makes fighting against the odds completely lack rewards and will soon dominate some type of fights.

 

We're right now in the process of solving things which were already solved with PvP marks. Just reuse solutions from PvP marks, which were polished through years of improvements.

Edited by vazco
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I like the suggestion but I think there is at least one problem: 
You have to wait for the jumper to loot. And Even when you have a bigger ship and he has a smaller (as is often the case with loot-jumpers) he will have time to run away after you warned him took screenshots, fired warning shots etc. You would have to make a cooldown for green on green in order to be able to sink a thief after all enemies are sunk or they are targeting you

I think a much simpler SOP is this: If someone jumps a PvE battle you can take a screenshot of the list of combatants (showing that he jumped in after you). And you should ask him to leave 3(?) minutes apart in the chat (and sceenshot).
 

If you have screenshots of that you can provide it if he goes to the tribunal. 

(I think looting is annoying sometimes, but I do not think it is a "realistic" part of the game where some skill is involved and it is thus relevant. But I think some unique PvP revards should be reintroduced to the game.)

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12 hours ago, Beeekonda said:

Literally any scrub of my faction can enter my battle and do such things. He would just see swords in open world and join.

Worse than that.  I could join on your side (Prussian) and steal your loot.  

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13 hours ago, Beeekonda said:

@admin

Not a tribunal post, just an example for discussion.

I initiated the battle. Bunch of pirates joined, including many 5x guys. Ram Dinark and his friend joined the other side after quiet some time but they left. Most of the pirates left as I asked them. Two of them remained and kept doing their stuff. Warning was given and ignored. 

 

Lets discuss. Who's wrong? Who is the bad guy? Who deserves to get banned? What rules were broken?

Pirates will be “pirates”, no?...

Ruthless cut-throats and scoundrels the lot of ‘em...

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8 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Worse than that.  I could join on your side (Prussian) and steal your loot.  

We had Bodye joining our side very last moment. I forgot to move stuff from capped bellona on mine and just left the battle. Hope he got some juice :D

 

8 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Pirates will be “pirates”, no?...

Ruthless cut-throats and scoundrels the lot of ‘em...

I don't understand

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[Diplomatic mode: ON]

Many thanks to Game-Labs for making this proposal, which shows that the problem raised up for rewarding PvP is taken into consideration.

But I think that the proposed solution will create either a bunch of tribunal instances (from looters who did not read this post, from some pirates who are stuck to non-ruled behaviours, etc.), and a lot of discouragement by PvP players, who will simply never recover the loots (because of three warning, because when the battle is over, every one can escape, because of loot sinking in the middle of enemy fleets, etc.)

The proposition that "Loot can be rewarded to the player who gets the kill" is a progress, but what about players who want to recover the repairs from a sunk friend during a PB? This would work, but very partially and very unsatisfactorily.

Taking into account that rewards were given by Admiralties after the battle, please go back to doubloons given like PvP marks before patch 27.

Edited by Aquillas
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On 11/3/2018 at 2:50 PM, Angus MacDuff said:

Worse than that.  I could join on your side (Prussian) and steal your loot.  

Worse than that. I can join in LGV on the side of your enemy in 20 vs 20 1st rate battle and loot ships you sink. You can't even report this, as it's not against the rules. In an even battle I should be able to get most of your rewards and noone can even complain.

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Simple solution. 

Each Nation is made up of clans. Let them fight. Let clan leaders and officers decide what is acceptable for their clan.

Outlaw battles to bury the hatchet. (in my fellow frenchies)

We are privateers after all

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On 11/2/2018 at 5:27 AM, Havelock said:

Imo the whole "you hve to loot to get rewards" is a questionable mechanic. It has really bad impact on the flow of a battle, especially if fighting outnumbered. Is it possible to let the dubloons drop into the hold of the player who killed the ship instead of the ship itself? If dubloons got split up between assists it would be even better.

What happened to "We want to encourage fighting over running" btw @admin? Fighting a bigger group, sinking some enemies but dying in the end will cost you all the dubloons youve looted in that battle. Is that design goal no longer active?

This is an excellent point. If rewards are being tied to looting, then that seriously impacts the battle mechanic.

 

Moving further in this direction is VERY questionable design practice, and continues to cement Naval Action as a game that can only be fully enjoyed for a select few.

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20 hours ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

Simple solution. 

Each Nation is made up of clans. Let them fight. Let clan leaders and officers decide what is acceptable for their clan.

Outlaw battles to bury the hatchet. (in my fellow frenchies)

We are privateers after all

While I completely disagree with the game going in this direction, it almost already is.

 

We have:

1) Countries available for play that never in their wildest dreams had so much as a raft in the Caribbean in the time period.

2) A mechanic where large clans control all RVR and much PVP with a near impossibility for small clans or solo players to be economically viable or participate in port battles.

3) The discontinuation of a feature (some time ago) that allowed said small clans or solo players to participate in AI battles/fleet missions further removing them from larger rewards for sinking ships.

 

Etc...the list goes on.

 

So, we might as well just scrap the countries at all and go full on to control of clans, lord protectors, and the hard core players.

 

It puzzles me that, in the name of historical realism, there will be a mechanic forcing you to "loot" a ship which takes time and resources which are often not available in a large battle, yet the game has become very ahistorical in other areas.

 

If looting is to become the only reliable way of gaining rewards then I would propose we truly make it 100% historical: when you enter a battle against an NPC trader or AI ship and it is obvious that in any normal course of events that you would win the battle, they should immediately surrender - much like merchants really did when it was clear that opposition would only result in the deaths of their men. This would at least save us poor players who already work a full time job and can't play Naval Action 70 hours a week some time.

 

Then, as has been indicated elsewhere, battles need to be open to more than just two sides: the only people you shouldn't be able to attack are your own nation/clan (depending on whatever way the game ultimately goes).

 

Finally, I have to ask one more question (which I don't realistically expect an answer to): why does Naval Action try to reinvent the wheel every six months?

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3 hours ago, Sir R. Calder of Southwick said:

While I completely disagree with the game going in this direction, it almost already is.

 

We have:

1) Countries available for play that never in their wildest dreams had so much as a raft in the Caribbean in the time period.

2) A mechanic where large clans control all RVR and much PVP with a near impossibility for small clans or solo players to be economically viable or participate in port battles.

3) The discontinuation of a feature (some time ago) that allowed said small clans or solo players to participate in AI battles/fleet missions further removing them from larger rewards for sinking ships.

 

Etc...the list goes on.

 

So, we might as well just scrap the countries at all and go full on to control of clans, lord protectors, and the hard core players.

 

It puzzles me that, in the name of historical realism, there will be a mechanic forcing you to "loot" a ship which takes time and resources which are often not available in a large battle, yet the game has become very ahistorical in other areas.

 

If looting is to become the only reliable way of gaining rewards then I would propose we truly make it 100% historical: when you enter a battle against an NPC trader or AI ship and it is obvious that in any normal course of events that you would win the battle, they should immediately surrender - much like merchants really did when it was clear that opposition would only result in the deaths of their men. This would at least save us poor players who already work a full time job and can't play Naval Action 70 hours a week some time.

 

Then, as has been indicated elsewhere, battles need to be open to more than just two sides: the only people you shouldn't be able to attack are your own nation/clan (depending on whatever way the game ultimately goes).

 

Finally, I have to ask one more question (which I don't realistically expect an answer to): why does Naval Action try to reinvent the wheel every six months?

I haven't played the new patch but barring new ships implementation I have not been upset with a change in a very long time. 

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1 hour ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

I haven't played the new patch but barring new ships implementation I have not been upset with a change in a very long time. 

A lot of changes from the beginning of the game have been positive, I agree. I am not complaining at all about the pure combat mechanics, or the economic model which is much more vibrant and interesting/realistic than it originally was.

 

I make the statement as someone who bought the game on day 1 on Steam when it became available, and while I didn't play it in the beta before that I was aware of the game and watched it with interest.

 

One of the things that has frequently happened though is large and significant changes - very few things have been done as a marginal tweak to nudge the game in one direction or another. While in some cases this has worked out to push the game in a positive direction, I think that's more luck. Naval Action is definitely a game with a lot of "moving parts" and I would venture that it is unwise to frequently and drastically change core mechanics.

 

Especially since many of these changes make the game further inaccessible for those of us who do not have the ability and/or desire to be glued to our PCs playing this game 20 hours a day.

 

Consider one of the previous reward reworks: Initially you got credit for damage and sinkings. Then, only sinking. Now, you get a tiny bit if credit for an assist, but if you manage to damage three 1st rates while sailing a Cerberus but ultimately get sunk you get next to nothing. If we want to play the historical card, don't forget that what made battles like Trafalgar so significant was that decisive battles were so rare. Far, far more common were indecisive or inconclusive battles where both sides could claim victory, like my distant relative's battle at Cape Finisterre (and whose name I honor here and in game).

 

Naval Action is, despite its niche maker, simply an MMO game at its core. We all know that. But in all the successful (and even some less successful) games there are ample things for solo or small group players to do to enjoy much of what the game has to offer. Naval Action has, since its inception, struggled in this area - or at the very least has an uneven record.

 

I've said many times that the developers who have made this game should be incredibly proud of the beautiful game that they created and that it brings a facet and type of game to the market that has been overlooked until now, and those of us with interest in the time period, the subject matter, etc should be thankful for that. I show my thanks by having purchased the game and put over 1000 hours into it (less than many now, but that's because I seldom have time to play anymore). But for the first year I owned the game, I did play it constantly - and FAR more than "big budget" games that came out in the same time frame.

But what Naval Action has failed to do, and these "big budget" games have done, is pick something and stick with it. Is Naval Action a game that simulates late 18th to early 19th century naval combat in the Caribbean? Is it a full blown career simulator of a frigate captain in a semi-fantasy world modeled on the Caribbean of the same time period?

 

Because, frankly, if the rewards for playing are to be an exact historical simulacrum of the time, then I expect to be paid as a ship captain, given ships to sail instead of having to build or buy them myself and so on. As someone who paid just as much as the next person I am sick and tired of seeing the player base dwindle and become more and more the playground of hard core players while the rest of us are left out in the cold.

Edited by Sir R. Calder of Southwick
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  • 3 months later...

Way to complicated.  KISS (Keep it simple, stupid) 

Player who did the kill automatically gets the loot after end of battle. If that player quits, he only gets what he killed, if he sinks in battle, the guy w second most damage gets the loot...and so on. 

Idk about PvP server issues with that solution, but on PvE the proposal solves killstealing, having to sail against the wind to sunken ships etc etc in one go. In friendly/clan grps one can alwys split loot on a voluntary basis.

 

 

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