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With cargo being more valuable now, I think it might be worthwhile to alter the dynamics of dumping it.  As it takes time to move stuff from hold to deck, I think cargo should only be dumped at the end of 30 seconds rather than the beginning as currently is the case.  The alert player will thrive, while catching someone unawares will be rewarded.

 

I would further suggest that dumped cargo remain on the open world for looting for two minutes.  In a pinch, the shipwreck mechanics could be reused, but it would ideally give a rough weight of what was dumped, so people could try to gamble on whether it is worth breaking off the chase to collect dumped goods, or continue chasing.

 

I believe this will increase the options for merchants, while also rewarding those who are alert.  Further, it allows for more dynamic gameplay during a long chase, while utilizing code and resources already present.

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Not able to dump cargo at all or it should be very-very slow. It kinda fails trader hunting, piracy, if players are able to dump.

Becomes even more important when and if resources have value worth looting. If resources are worthless then doesn't really mater what you do.

Long time ago there was a feature request, maybe years ago: Option to surrender in way that you do not lose your ship but instead allow your enemy to inspect and loot from hold.

 

Economy has been pretty bad and resources been worthless. You gave PvP marks from traders. None was interested to loot traders, everyone took easy PvP Marks. This system was bad. Traders should not give PvP reward or very minimal. Economy should be tuned on level that makes resources once again worth looting.

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1 hour ago, Powderhorn said:

With cargo being more valuable now, I think it might be worthwhile to alter the dynamics of dumping it.  As it takes time to move stuff from hold to deck, I think cargo should only be dumped at the end of 30 seconds rather than the beginning as currently is the case.  The alert player will thrive, while catching someone unawares will be rewarded.

 

I would further suggest that dumped cargo remain on the open world for looting for two minutes.  In a pinch, the shipwreck mechanics could be reused, but it would ideally give a rough weight of what was dumped, so people could try to gamble on whether it is worth breaking off the chase to collect dumped goods, or continue chasing.

 

I believe this will increase the options for merchants, while also rewarding those who are alert.  Further, it allows for more dynamic gameplay during a long chase, while utilizing code and resources already present.

Excellent idea...

or have a system where dumping isn’t binary (there/gone) but disappears by percentage over time.  

And I guess I can be ok with dumping doubloons (although I think it’s poor sportsmanship)...

I also like your concept of gathering up some of the flotsam and jetsam.  It’s true that certain things float.  

Like witches!!

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2 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

while also rewarding those who are alert

How are you rewarded as the merchant by dumping your cargo? For you its no difference, youre loosing the cargo so or so.

A mechanics that just frustrates other players and does nothing else, is very bad game design.

A mechanic that players use every single time in a certain situation without thinking, is bad game design.

If they want this in the game, dumping cargo should have a serious drawback, so it wouldnt happen very often and players would need to actually make decisions. Something like reduced reputation, if there was reputation. Or reduced crew capacity for the next 24 hours, but traders probably wouldnt care. I dont think there are good ways to balance this, so it should be removed. You could slow it down extremely so players would atleast need to evaluate the point of no escape right, but they would still use it every single time. 

2 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

I would further suggest that dumped cargo remain on the open world for looting for two minutes.

I think it should float inside the instance then, because it makes no sense that you need to leave the instance to loot what the trader just dumped right infront of you.

But thats a good idea, making the hunter choose between ship and cargo, and the trader needs to dump early enough. If he doesnt though the chase just takes much longer.

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3 minutes ago, Fargo said:

If they want this in the game, dumping cargo should have a serious drawback, so it wouldnt happen very often and players would need to actually make decisions.

The consequence in days of old was how pissed off the captors would get if you threw away all their hard earned loot.  That could make a major difference in how you are treated as a prisoner.  Realistically, they didn't haul the heavy cargo out of the hold and toss it at all.  We do it because its consequence free.  How about just removing the ability to toss anything that weighs 100 tones?

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5 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Dumping cargo could be a timer based on the weight. 30 seconds as constant value - dumb idea. Doubloons can be dropped instantly as they have no weight. I would even go step further to dumping cannons from the ship, it did happen in real life. 

@Vernon Merrill poor sportmanship is also ganking and killing traders, but ah well... 

Wow.  Who knew that people like Piet Hein,  Sir Henry Morgan, Robert Surcouf and John Ordronaux were all practicing poor sportsmanship?!?  And here I thought that they were celebrated as successful Privateers...  There’s that word again.  

Also, I’ll be sure to tell the next Indiaman I take with his 18-lb’ers and 400 men and his two Indefatiguable and Renommee fleet that I’m sorry I ganked him in my Prince with 130 men. 

You play your game and I’ll play mine....  

But ah well....

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I’m not sure why you feel the need to discuss this in a thread regarding dumping cargo, but ok....

In fact, I’m not even sure what your point in mentioning my name was.  

I think your comment regarding the topic was, ummmmm, fine.  

How was that?  Ok?  Or do you require further affirmation?  

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3 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

The consequence in days of old was how pissed off the captors would get if you threw away all their hard earned loot.  That could make a major difference in how you are treated as a prisoner.  Realistically, they didn't haul the heavy cargo out of the hold and toss it at all.  We do it because its consequence free. 

And sailors would probably care about there lifes much more than about cargo they dont even own. But its hard to represent this somehow in game.

An idea could be to give your sailors a chance to protest. So your ship could just stop and cargo dumping fails. But still you would push that button every single time after the point of no escape is reached...

7 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

How about just removing the ability to toss anything that weighs 100 tones?

Same, you would just push that button every single time you can. 

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38 minutes ago, Eyesore said:

so, we are allowed to scuttle our ships, to deny 'the enemy' his prize ...

but when a trader destroys his cargo ... then it is a problem?

Where is the difference?

This does not get rid of destroying goods, it merely pushes it to the end of the 30s timer instead of the beginning.  This forces merchants to make a decision earlier, and forces them to be alert.  Currently, a merchant about to be tagged can wait in the hold with an anti-matter gun and disappear a full stack of cargo 1s from going into combat.  This proposal includes the concept of "crap or get off the pot."

This helps merchants by having loot drop behind them.  The chaser must decide to stop and loot while the merchant escapes, or pursue the hull while the cargo sinks.  Or maybe the merchant just threw some repairs overboard to try to throw the frigate off their tail...?

The proposal adds more choice for both sides of a chase, increasing the dynamism of gameplay.

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Seems to be varied viewpoints.

E-sport competition where game design that ignores; realism, and creating a story - strict focus on PvP and rewards.  No dumping should be allowed. Some sort of imposed fairness to appease hunters.

Or ...

Age of sail type atmosphere where cannons, valuables and important papers could be jettisoned to; deny the enemy, and increase speed.  Some cargo might float and be retrieved, and other items would sink.  Lots of heavy cargo would be slow or difficult to unload at sea.

"Fun" depends on your viewpoint.

Edited by Macjimm
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4 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

so people could try to gamble on whether it is worth breaking off the chase to collect dumped goods, or continue chasing.

Never happen.  Your ship has hidden Doubloons aboard.  No one will stop for cargo that will weigh them down (at best), when what they want is your Doubloons.

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1 minute ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Never happen.  Your ship has hidden Doubloons aboard.  No one will stop for cargo that will weigh them down (at best), when what they want is your Doubloons.

Not true.  Some of us raid so that we dont have to gather up resources from buildings or trading.... 

There's so many times I've wished you could just loot a captain's ship and let him then be back on his merry way.

It would lessen the blow of a loss and still provide me with what I wanted....  It would be an "option".

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Crafting ships using only stolen resources is a playstyle.

The hidden dubloons is supposed to be the "crew allowance" or something like that. But the big jackpot is indeed coming upon a ship returning to base after a cruise.

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1 hour ago, Macjimm said:

"Fun" depends on your viewpoint.

Mechanics have to work, and nobody would ever design a game that lets players fool around with each other. Because this is simply not fun.

Sure it might be fun for someone to piss off someone else by dumping the cargo. But when every trader/ship would just dump its cargo to piss off the enemy, players would just stop hunting traders/players for their cargo. No satisfaction anymore for him, less gameplay options for the others.

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Probably would take too much programming time now, but it would be great if player dumps cargo, the pursuer gets a message “Cargo in the water.”  He can either stop to inspect (similar to sunken wreck recovery) or continue the pursuit. 

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11 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Never happen.  Your ship has hidden Doubloons aboard.  No one will stop for cargo that will weigh them down (at best), when what they want is your Doubloons.

What doubloons?  I'm not putting doubloons in any ship until the magic naval credit card goes away.

 

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10 hours ago, Fargo said:

But when every trader/ship would just dump its cargo to piss off the enemy, players would just stop hunting traders/players for their cargo.

My dream, fulfilled.  Then maybe people will start attacking ships that can fight back again.

Edited by Barbancourt
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13 hours ago, Fargo said:

Sure it might be fun for someone to piss off someone else by dumping the cargo.

Not my idea of fun.  But I would appreciate a game where denying the enemy cargo could benefit my nation.

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8 hours ago, Macjimm said:

Not my idea of fun.  But I would appreciate a game where denying the enemy cargo could benefit my nation.

Sure it would be nice to have this option in case you really care about your nation or your cargo is super important. But then dumping cargo needs to be a decision you really need to think about. Like in RL, where you wouldnt have been treated very friendly after dumping enemy treasure. Even then it might not work, when the chance of no reward is still high enough to scare off the majority of players.

We dont care about our lifes, thats the issue. It would be cool though if we did. You could make cargo dumping work, as well as surrendering in a very realistic way. If someone surrenders you could let the player decide to kill him or not, depending on the person, his previous actions, and how moral you want to be. Moral decisions that would have concequences and would define who you are, instead of just choosing pirates to be the bad guy. Just slaughter everyone, and you are likely to get killed aswell.

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