Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum

NPC Fleet Routes


Recommended Posts

All this chat about AI aggressiveness may be off topic, but the thread is about NPCs.  Suppose I just got excited by the idea of more content in game and wanted to express support.  I'm glad the NPCs will seem to have a little more purpose now.  I'm looking forward to sailing with fleets that offer protection.   It will make the game more interesting for me.

I think that AI are irritating if they attack in the wrong location.  Being continuously and repeatedly pulled into combat, by NPCs, near one's own capital is frustrating and a waste of time.  For me the expectation that NPCs might engage when I am alone out on the open ocean would add content.  That's why the option for a clientside AI aggressiveness sounds great.  NPCs would ignore players with the setting off and pursue only those who have set it on.

I don't understand why players who are unaffected by NPCs are opposed to them attacking me.  

Anyhow, the dev team is only 2.5 people.  NA is a good game.  NPC fleet routes is a bonus.

Edited by Macjimm
Grammar
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The problem is that none of that can be done client-side. 

Then it is a dead issue.  Having aggressive NPCs for everyone, always, would suck.  I had thought that there might be a way to have NPCs recognize me as enemy, or friendly, depending on an identifier I could toggle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, LeBoiteux said:

Can't the same kind of system as the one implemented in NA for Smuggler be used ? You tick a box and you can be attacked by bots. You don't, you can't.

you could but it'd be a dead feature on arrival, unless it prevented PVP tagging at the same time, then maybe we could merge the PVP and PVE servers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aggressive Ai was fun, and it was the only content in the game. It has been removed, and nothing replaced it, now NA world is bland, empty, without life. Being attacked by players is the waste of time, not by AI.

 

It was especially fun when AI would reinforce battles in their area.Or when AI fleets would battle each other, and you could join them. When you were sailing in OW, you could witness a battle anywhere, not knowing if a player was already involved, or not.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, admin said:

AI suprise attacking a human trader in Lynx would be just a waste of time for both participants. 

Not if the player in the lynx is afk, then the player die 🤣

I think a mechanic like this would be good for the game if it was limited to certain areas and to special "Hunter AIs" that where rare. The special Hunter AI would only patrol their own nations core territory.  They should be OP, attack enemy players, join battles to aid their own nation players and chase enemy players IN OW up to the boarder of the AI nations territory.

For the hunter AI to have an effect they must pose a real threat to enemy nation players. To achieve this we should consider giving the AIs some new tools/ability's. Like they could get the prepared perk, be able to repair, option to chain an enemy if the enemy ship has speed advantage and is close enough for chain to be effective, demast (AI know how to single shot..) and throw in the overpowered epic event AI bonuses and then some OP bording mod combination and we as players have a new threat in this game.
Core territories could be the nation area with unconquerable ports, and it could also be regions a nation control all ports in.

I seriously think "attacking AI" is a good idea to increase content in OW and protection of home waters. Areas with few/no players = no treat = me sailing afk. It would increase the need to keep an eye on the horizon when passing through enemy areas and making it more thrilling to travel through enemy core territory. 

The normal AI we now find in OW is to weak to be used for a feature like this. All you need to do is pick a escape direction that is good for your ship and load chain in your rear cannons. As long as you don't disconnect and run out of repairs you should be able to get out. So getting attacked by the current OW AI would just be a time sink, like it was back in the day..

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, hoarmurath said:

It was especially fun when AI would reinforce battles in their area.Or when AI fleets would battle each other, and you could join them. When you were sailing in OW, you could witness a battle anywhere, not knowing if a player was already involved, or not. 

Now this I like.

 

Not a fan of the idea of NPC's hightailing it after my ass wherever I go, but the above sounds fantastic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Wraith said:

No, because even then it was handled server side.  AI chasing you would have to appear to everyone else and would thus affect all players regardless of your choice or not. If it was all handled client side it would open serious loop holes for exploitation.  Imagine an alt in a battle group with that checked for example, or using it to facilitate escape where the person fleeing magically disappears because they were tagged by AI that the pursuers couldn't see, etc.

Wow, the coding/scripting is complicated.  I imagined that all players could see all NPCs, but the NPCs would only attack players that had toggled the AI aggression on.  I had no idea that the NPCs would have to be invisible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot more could be done with the AI, there could at least be notable NPCs sailing around that are aggressive to players, famous Pirates or Famous pirate hunters these NPCs could be rare spawns and remain on the open seas until killed by players they could drop decent loot and only spawn outside the capital areas. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

No, because even then it was handled server side.  AI chasing you would have to appear to everyone else and would thus affect all players regardless of your choice or not. If it was all handled client side it would open serious loop holes for exploitation.  Imagine an alt in a battle group with that checked for example, or using it to facilitate escape where the person fleeing magically disappears because they were tagged by AI that the pursuers couldn't see, etc.

So, from you say, if I correctly understand, the coding of AI aggressiveness as an option seems technically possible. What must be thought over beforehand are the rules of the mechanism to avoid  'exploit', such as 'in case of a AI and a human player who simultaneously tag a human player, the priority goes to...' etc. as there are rules with the smuggler mechanism : 1) Be in a ship designated as a trader. 2) Set your smuggler flag while in one of your national ports, or in a Free Port. 3) Etc.

And when one sets the rules, one has to define what an 'exploit' is, such as when a player tick the 'AI aggressiveness box", must he be considered as : 1) a player who just wants to be able to attacked by AI. 2) A player who wants in some case to illegally avoid human tagging, exploit the system (as you mention it) 3) A player who wants no PvP, only PVE. 4) Must it be considered as an exploit or just a rule of the game ? 5)...

Game design, right ?

All those questions coming after the consideration of development ressources and priorities, marketing...

Edited by LeBoiteux
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:
23 hours ago, Pirate Blackbeard said:

Also agree with others that NPC fleet/ships should attack players if BR is +100.

Er.... makes little sense to me.

IF AI going to be aggressive then they get aggressive to enemy player in the designated own nation zones,

This is what I thought was intended also. 😁

Edited by Flash Jack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, hoarmurath said:

It was especially fun when AI would reinforce battles in their area.Or when AI fleets would battle each other, and you could join them. When you were sailing in OW, you could witness a battle anywhere, not knowing if a player was already involved, or not.

This will come back on one form or another.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/25/2018 at 7:39 AM, LeBoiteux said:

or there can can zones where AI is aggressive. There are a lots of possibilities.

Now it's a matter of development ressources, coding, devs' choices, game design, players' priorities, marketing... 🙂

Make the capital true protected zones.  Have the AI only aversive in those waters.  Why would AI just let raiders camp around the corners of a capital.  Can. Do this with the Gulf of Mexico ports of French Spain zones and do it with the ports from CT and north for the US.  Making those areas even more safe for casuals to grind in or do missions.  We need to keep casuals safe to keep players around and right now the safe gank zones aren’t working 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Make the capital true protected zones.  Have the AI only aversive in those waters.  Why would AI just let raiders camp around the corners of a capital.  Can. Do this with the Gulf of Mexico ports of French Spain zones and do it with the ports from CT and north for the US.  Making those areas even more safe for casuals to grind in or do missions.  We need to keep casuals safe to keep players around and right now the safe gank zones aren’t working 

if reinf zones have to be really safe, they have to be also totally USELESS. you can't collect res, can't trade or farm AI...you can do only combat mission for xp.

if not, the  game will be destroyed cause nobody has the need to go out for buy res for craft his ships or make money. the only port that can be inside a safety zone (like capital area now, but bigger) must be only the nation capital.

this or close the game

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

if reinf zones have to be really safe, they have to be also totally USELESS. you can't collect res, can't trade or farm AI...you can do only combat mission for xp.

if not, the  game will be destroyed cause nobody has the need to go out for buy res for craft his ships or make money. the only port that can be inside a safety zone (like capital area now, but bigger) must be only the nation capital.

this or close the game

 

Oh BS it won't be destroyed you just have to learn to hunt harder targets if you go into that zones.  All the woods are out of any safe zones any way, all the copper and other items are out of them so all you will get is misison rewards cause there are no enemy ships in the green zone after this new patch.  Missions give crap rewards (basic mods) any way so they aren't getting some special rewards.  You want to go gank nobs and casuals than your going have to risk it.  Real navies would never let pirates sit right out side capital in patroled waters ganking every thing in sight.  You want PvP go put a little agro on any of the high dollar money making ports and you will see your PvP.

POTBS had the whole map PvE only unless you started a red zone than you could PvP and that game ran years with full servers (hell it still running just dead as hell).  99% of the games out there gives you safe zones to PvP in.  Name one MMO that is almost all PvP and gives no safe zones for casuals and news to play and level up in?  YOu want more players you give them a safe place where they can play and do things and not have to fear being ganked every two seconds.

O63V1ey.png

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

All the woods are out of any safe zones any way, all the copper and other items are out of them   nope, as USA you can buy all the res you need for crafting sailing inside your reinf zone...from brunswik to wilmington and over...so the woods are totally inside safe zone

POTBS had the whole map PvE only unless you started a red zone than you could PvP and that game ran years with full servers (hell it still running just dead as hell). wrong, POTBS has the whole map PVP but you can ENABLE your ''PVP FLAG'' or not. crossing the red zone you can be attaked even if you have ''PVP FLAG'' disabled (you want to do only PVE). the result was that the small red areas were CAMPED by ALL SERVER'S PLAYERS...this was the worst thing that caused many player leave the game, added to passing from monthly fee to free to play

i was a POTBS player too

O63V1ey.png

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, huliotkd said:

 

Basic woods, there is no TEAK, WO/LO, ETC inside any of the safe zones for any nations......there is no reason to remove basic resources from safe zones.   You want the great rewards of ganking some one live with high risk.  Right now the safe zones as even @admin called it "Safe Gank Zone"  are not safe zones. Your there almost every day this week ganking easy targets.  It shouldn't be easy for you.  Most of the guys I hear leaving are cause they can't go out and do a mission without some one jumping into it or take something from one port to a nother.  Stop being lazy and actually learn how to hunt and fight.  Ya'll sit right around the corner jumping any one that comes out with no skill (why ya'll get sunk almost daily too).

The extra stuff yo umention about POTBS is why folks left not cause of the zones.  It was still a majority PvE zone cause you had the choise to engage it or not...here we don't....you can't force players out of a zone and into PvP if they don't want to, what you will get instead is what we have now.....a server with numbers less than PVP2/Global had before the merg.  Folks are leaving cause they are sick of getting ganked by 5 nations over an over and those so called PvPers refuse to fight each other.  You want to retain players you need to give them safe zones to play in.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Basic woods, there is no TEAK, WO/LO, ETC inside any of the safe zones for any nations......there is no reason to remove basic resources from safe zones.  you can build all fir/fir ships and go fight withoun any risk...so you can have some wood to build a ship. no good for a safe zone (a real one)

Your there almost every day this week ganking easy targets.  It shouldn't be easy for you.  Most of the guys I hear leaving are cause they can't go out and do a mission without some one jumping into it or take something from one port to a nother.  Stop being lazy and actually learn how to hunt and fight.  Ya'll sit right around the corner jumping any one that comes out with no skill (why ya'll get sunk almost daily too). i think you are confusing me with someone else...i was out of USA coast just 2 days in the last 10 days for no more than 1 hour...and is quite impossible for a lone player to ''GANK'' someone else...maybe are you suggesting me to clone myself??

The extra stuff yo umention about POTBS is why folks left not cause of the zones.  It was still a majority PvE zone cause you had the choise to engage it or not...here we don't....you can't force players out of a zone and into PvP if they don't want to CRAP YES!!! I CAN FORCE A PLAYER TO GO OUT SAFE ZONE...and i must do it! we are on PVP server not PVE server...if you want PVE go in PVE server!!!! pvp server is mostly pvp with a ''PVE FLAG''....pve server is moslty pve with ''PVP FLAG''.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

there is no reason to remove basic resources from safe zones.

Correct. Basic.

2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

You want the great rewards of ganking some one live with high risk

It's far more dangerous to "gank" in enemy safezones than in OW.
If hunters come to capitols it's only to have a fairly decent chance to FIND SOMEONE.

Not all (who??) would like to spend their 2-3 hours evening gaming... sailing in an empty ocean.

2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Your there almost every day this week ganking easy targets. It shouldn't be easy for you.

We hunted almost never US coast.
And again: hunting in safezones IS dangerous.

And so unbalanced in favour to "defender" that simply cant be, realistically, done with any ship, but only with purposely fitted ships.

2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Most of the guys I hear leaving are cause they can't go out and do a mission without some one jumping into it or take something from one port to a nother.

If they keep farming in front of the most camped ports... it's pretty normal to be... attacked.
GET OUT AND AWAY FROM SAFEZONES. Not so difficult.

2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Stop being lazy and actually learn how to hunt and fight.  Ya'll sit right around the corner jumping any one that comes out with no skill (why ya'll get sunk almost daily too).

"How to hunt": mainly a luck matter afar from hubs and capitols.
Again: hunters come to capitols... because they CAN find (probably) adequate targets.

Just to give an idea of "traffic" around: I did a 2hrs trip from LT to Victoria and back to Tumbado.
Guess how many players met.

About "how to fight": aside @huliotkd knows how to, for people interested to get involved in PvP could be pretty difficult.
Cases
a) getting around in OW alone on a well fitted "real" ship:
- mid risk being counter-ganked.
- high chance finding NO target.
- low chance getting a 1v1 duel with a veteran, being then smashed. So losing a nicely fit ship with limited gain: economically not viable.

b) getting around capitols on a well fitted "real" ship:
- high risk being counter ganked.
- mid risk not finding a proper target. Again not a big deal economically.

c) getting around capitols on fast raider:
- mid risk of being counter ganked.
- mid chance getting some kills. Potentially economically viable.

d) going around in group:
- high chance to gank someone but usually learning NOTHING of PvP.

Sideeffect In both cases c) and d) being called a seal-clubber/ganker.
 

2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Folks are leaving cause they are sick of getting ganked by 5 nations over an over and those so called PvPers refuse to fight each other.  You want to retain players you need to give them safe zones to play in.

Granted safezones RoE... it's PLAIN STUPID attacking other raiders.

1. even granted a "fair" fight (let me know when it is - exactly) there's an high chance "locals" will join one side or the other ruining the duel itself.
2. in case 1. fighting other raiders means fighting other (likely) fast ships: reducing chances to disengage if "locals" join against.
3. even fighting along with "locals" killing another random "raider" will not ban "local coast guard" to tag the "ex-friendly raider" after the battle (seen not only a few times): so why should I help them if they could attack me 1 sec later?
4. even in case of a full fair duel, the raider will fight an enemy usually stronger than the medium potential target in the area... for the same (or even less) reward. So economically stupid.

Is this fair? No.
It's reasonable? I'd say yes.

A MMO player will always try (as in RL issues) to maximize his experience/profit "within the rules".
If this is happening too much (granted "ganking" etc... are natural part of a PvP MMO) to detriment of game and player base, it's not something players could change: it's Devs' duty.

 

PS: dont try to point me as one happy of the situation: I repeatly stated that


a) even losing a battle should give something to the loser (so favouring looking also for "fair" - lol - duels);
b) PvP reward in killing should keep into account victim's rank, possibly a "PvP ranking, and real value/gear of his ship. So a greenish Connie lead by a 100 hrs Cpt. without any previous PVP kill has to worth a fraction of a perfect 4/5 t/wo Trinco with 8+ mil mods on board led by a top rank with 3000+ hrs and who farmed already 5000+ PvP marks in his career.

SO I'll be able to find an interesting way to get rewared killing the latter: higher risk, far longer and more difficult fight, but far higher reward.
Otherwise I have NO REASON to prefer the latter to the first, especially with the first "paying" an higher reward. Aside, time to time, to test my ability: not something would do daily.

Sidenote: I tag anything I met I think I have a chance to beat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/24/2018 at 5:08 PM, admin said:

Regions Matter
To help players find their perfect hunting spot, to help with search and destroy missions and to provide natural chokepoints and meeting places for players certain classes of NPC ships/fleets will now prefer to sail specific regions.

I guys .

Seems well on paper  , but not in game. I give you an example:

My friends and I are playing under french flag on the north coast of Mexico Golf , during 2 days we sail from Sans Fernando to Sans José and back , and Hooo surprise no enemy NPC or enemy trader , nothing just french npc. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, kalto said:

I guys .

Seems well on paper  , but not in game. I give you an example:

My friends and I are playing under french flag on the north coast of Mexico Golf , during 2 days we sail from Sans Fernando to Sans José and back , and Hooo surprise no enemy NPC or enemy trader , nothing just french npc. 

In this case you need to move the operational base to the borders with enemies - leaving the crating base in the rear. Enemy ships are concentrated in the enemy waters and near the borders.
This effect is not happening on the Peace server though

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, admin said:

Enemy ships are concentrated in the enemy waters and near the borders.
This effect is not happening on the Peace server though

implemented because scared pvpers don't leave home port when there are enemy bots in their waters ! Proven fact.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im so sad to see that there are players who think its completely normal and should be promoted / rewarded to farm newbies in capital zones.

Don't you understand thats killing the game?

Thats the main reason 90% of the players leaving before even starting to enjoy NA.

Basically you destroying the player retention of the game and that should be fixed ASAP or you will end up playing all alone.

Sure some of you gankers have some no risk fun and even received great rewards for doing this..(pvp marks) meanwhile the population of some nations (looking at you USA) slowly decreasing to zero.

Just take a look at other "more" successful games, i can't tell you one single MMO/Sandbox where newbies and starting zones have zero protection.

POTBS did this right, EVE-online doing this right and the list goes on, meanwhile in NA ganking newbies is promoted and even supported with nasty toys like the Le Requin...

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...