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Looking for Wapen von Hamburg PvP footage

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Greetings! I am looking for recordings of interesting and successful PvP battles from players using the Wapen to great effect in a balanced match ( no noob / random pleb bashing ), preferably with information about the build and books used. Any advice on making the ship work in PvP is also welcome.

Thank you.

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Worst looking paint in the game, in my opinion.  Very fun ship to sail and completely viable in dueling situations.  But as an OW hunter she is woefully undergunned and outpaced, in my opinion which is why you don't see many people sail her. Despite her turni-ness there's really no reason to not sail a fast Bellona over a Wapen given the increase in armor, broadside weight and upwind sailing speed.  Just my .02.

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I think you were asking about the Wapen the other day in another thread. I mentioned how I like it, and used to sail it some. Its been a while though since I've sailed it, so I made one the other day to try out. 

WHAT I LEARNED:

  • Wapen's turn rate and ability to use that to bounce shots is still outstanding. 
  • Using downwind mods to make the most of her downwind profile yields a ship that is very nice to sail--nimble and quick.
  • Wapen's base speed SUCKS. Much worse than I remeber it. As a result, her OW speed suffers greatly. Navy Loodsman helps, but its hard to justify a slot when even a lightly built Wapen loaded with speed mods barely gets 13.5 on the card (granted, 13.5kn should be a 'quick' ship, but thanks to mod-stacking thats not really the case).
  • People don't expect anyone sailing a Wapen to be any good. As a result, they underestimate you and sometimes sink because of it.

WILL I STILL USE WAPEN?

   Ehh....hard to say. It takes a light build and a lot of expensive mods (I'm going to be experimenting with a teak/fir 4/5 + Copper and Elite Spanish) to get enough speed to be acceptable as a solo ship and *maybe* be fast enough to outrun the revenge ganks in OW. Its just hard to justify that when I can fit out an Ingermanland or Bellona and reach the same speeds but sail better in OW and cost less in terms of mods. Not to mention better guns.

SUMMARY:

Wapen is as excellent to sail in battle now as she was a year ago. A little weak in the HP department, and the firepower from the bottom two decks leaves something to be desired, but its manageable. But she suffers horribly in OW and is plain out-classed by faster and more powerful ships.

Guess I have a bit of crow to eat, having said it was still as good as it used to be :rolleyes:. But, in my defense, the in-battle performance really isn't that bad.

SUGGESTIONS TO BUFF WAPEN:

Faster base speed, work on OW sailing profile (feels too sluggish upwind when in OW). Then work from there. Maybe the 3rd gun deck (counting up from the bottom, should carry larger carronades?).

PICTURES: [formatted with ship information and summary followed by picture]:
(no videos from me, but there are some good ones on YouTube from 1+ years ago. Combat model is different now, but the basic tactics of spinning and using your agility to take down targets is the same):

[October 2018, I don't know if this counts as noob bashing...the guy is not as experienced a captain as I am, and I had help from two other skilled captains, but we were all in light and small ships. But it is 'interesting,' I think:
Fir/Fir Wapen with copper, navy hull, spanish rig; art of shiphandling, light carriages, optimized ballast, studdingsails. Joined the battle upwind of the Pavel, raced downwind at great speed, closing the gap. I Broadsided the Pavel, tacked through the wind, and put in another broadside of 13 leaks; then wore ship downwind and gave a third broadside. Then tacked and came about for another broadside. He sank from the leaks but was already around 15% side health from us pounding one side when he sank. Hercules assisted with a couple broadsides on the same side as me, and the Pirate Frigate raked. I bounced the one broadside he fired at me, taking virtually no damage as you can see. Wapen may not have lots of big guns, but the guns she does have are numerous and they can deal significant damage in a short time.]

8E6B7D1951BC435FEDE8B67FC8E5814A87DF5005

[July 2018: Fourth rate duel with Privateer's Wapen vs my Ingermanland (LO/WO Floating Battery, Northern Carpenters, Cartagena; Art of Shiphandling, Light Carriages, Steel Toolbox [I forget the rest of the mods I had...I think they were gunnery encyclopedia and mast rake aft]). I don't remember what build he was, but I wasn't quite able to out-turn him, but I did manage to keep the wind the whole duel, using my heavy 32pd longs to pen him at range, and the Edinorogs on my middle deck to melt his HP up close. He used the Wapen's strengths well though, and had I given up the weather gauge, I'm not sure if I'd have been able to avoid him getting on my upwind side and spinning in circles while destroying my side (as I described doing to the Pavel in the above screenshot)]: {note that the other ships were simply observing, not fighting}8DAF7F3D7BC44DF766BFA09167F243E3F58C5173
 

[March, 2017: Duel with EliteDelta. Old NA combat model (featuring 1x hull and 1x rig repairs w/no rum). I don't remember the build of my ship...but I think this was back when we only had the redeemed purple mahogany/crewspace gift ships... Anyways, was a fun fight and I was so close to losing. EliteDelta focused my hull hard while I went for masts. Finally his mast fell and he had no rig repair so I was able to rake and board him. LESSON LEARNED: a good demasting ship, Wapen does not make {too few cannons that can pen masts, better to focus hull or raking with the Wapen}]:

C77AA5E79A7718F17C4F019D78084E65AA7EBB63

 

Don't know if this helps you out any...but I do plan on giving Wapen another shot (as I said, I've got the Teak/Fir one that a clanmate gave me that I'm playing around with now). I'll try to remember to screenshot and post if I get any good battles (if you don't see anything from me regarding that Wapen, assume I manged to get sunk in some embarrassing manner :lol:).

PS: I agree with what @Wraith said in his post, but I disagree with the comment about the paint. Wapen is beautiful and nobody will convince me otherwise. But I also wouldn't object to an all-black Wapen (maybe a red stripe?) and tarnished bronze trim on the transom and stern gallery, instead of the gold leaf. #bringbackpaints

Edited by William Death
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@Wraith and I just had a nice little engagement with the US. 

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This was my teak/fir 4/5 Wapen I mentioned earlier. I had Elite Spanish Rig, Copper Plating, Navy Hull, Crooked Hull, Art of Shiphandling, Treatise on Square Sails, Light Carriages, Optimized Ballast. Failfit speed, basically. Their Indefatigable was also teak/fir. I didn't get to loot the Ingermanland.

We engaged the Ingermanland, he easily out-damaged me (because my ship was so lightly built). Luckily he wasted a rig repair (Wraith had opened with some good chain hits in his sails), which my bow chasers promptly negated. However, he was still as fast upwind with low sails as I was with full sails. Fortunately, my turn rate combined with Wraith's ability to run in and hit his hull, without being hit too hard allowed us to get one of his sides beat down. 

After he sank, we worked on the Indefatigable, but Wraith was damaged and feared for the integrity of his masts and my hull looked like swiss cheese, so we had to be cautious for a couple repair cycles

After a couple rounds of repairs while we chased the Indefatigable downwind, we got some nice hits in both of their ships. The Requin messed up and got too close and lost most of his side and about half of his structure. I was able to finish the Requin's hull while Wraith finished the Indefatigable.

It was a fun fight. Good teamwork and some clever maneuvering won the battle.

 

That being said, Wapen is just too slow in OW to try to PvP alone with. The Ingermanland was outrunning me in OW at several angles, and the Wapen just bleeds speed when trying to beat upwind. Did fine in battle though, considering the light build.

 

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16 hours ago, Wraith said:

Worst looking paint in the game, in my opinion.  Very fun ship to sail and completely viable in dueling situations.  But as an OW hunter she is woefully undergunned and outpaced, in my opinion which is why you don't see many people sail her. Despite her turni-ness there's really no reason to not sail a fast Bellona over a Wapen given the increase in armor, broadside weight and upwind sailing speed.  Just my .02.

Pretty much what I think, except for the paint - I fancy the swag.

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14 hours ago, William Death said:

A little weak in the HP department, and the firepower from the bottom two decks leaves something to be desired, but its manageable. But she suffers horribly in OW and is plain out-classed by faster and more powerful ships.

This sums it up pretty much. @admin

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3 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

She was more of a "convoy escort" than a proper warship, right ?

I don't really know what the specific role of a "convoy escort" was but I assume to deter pirates and other enemy ships, so she should be a very capable fighter or not? A bit more speed shouldn't be too much to ask for... why would a convoy escort be slow anyways? Or they could give her something unique / special like a very large hold ( this would also help with speed a bit ) or a inbuilt defensive boarding bonus?

I love the historical orientation of the game but please don't tell me the wapen is in the game only to be looked at and not sailed...

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14 hours ago, William Death said:

Duel with EliteDelta.

Elite is a decent PvP player but the fact that you both used the wapen doesn't really show how viable it is, only that you are a bit better with it....

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10 hours ago, William Death said:

@Wraith and I just had a nice little engagement with the US. 

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This was my teak/fir 4/5 Wapen I mentioned earlier. I had Elite Spanish Rig, Copper Plating, Navy Hull, Crooked Hull, Art of Shiphandling, Treatise on Square Sails, Light Carriages, Optimized Ballast. 

That being said, Wapen is just too slow in OW to try to PvP alone with. The Ingermanland was outrunning me in OW at several angles, and the Wapen just bleeds speed when trying to beat upwind. Did fine in battle though, considering the light build.

 

While I agree that wapen is a really slow ship. To say it bleeds speed going upwind when you had 2 sail force mods killing your upwind speed already kinda defeats your purpose of going upwind. But i'll stress again I don't disagree with your review of the wapen.

I don't believe the wapen is meant to be such a light build with speed mods. Or specifically the ship doesn't shine in that role. 

I was talking with some folks the other day and it seemed we agreed that both the wapen and inger could afford another 300+ more HPs, and wapen needs a very small speed boost.

Edited by Teutonic
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Watch moscalb's videos.

Wappen was one of RUBLI's favored circle holder in port battles. it is an amazing ship in the right hands.

with a high turn rate associated with a short hull length and 4 68pd in the rear, could luck trying to stern camp that ship.

can take either 2 deck of poods or some 24pd + 18pd I would not call it low on the DPS side.

 

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21 minutes ago, RKY said:

Wappen was one of RUBLI's favored circle holder in port battles. it is an amazing ship in the right hands.

Was or still is? Seems like it can be decent in duels and PBs but garbage in OW... oh well. Can you link one of the videos where moscalb uses it, please? I can not find it.

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2 hours ago, Teutonic said:

While I agree that wapen is a really slow ship. To say it bleeds speed going upwind when you had 2 sail force mods killing your upwind speed already kinda defeats your purpose of going upwind. But i'll stress again I don't disagree with your review of the wapen.

I don't believe the wapen is meant to be such a light build with speed mods. Or specifically the ship doesn't shine in that role. 

I was talking with some folks the other day and it seemed we agreed that both the wapen and inger could afford another 300+ more HPs, and wapen needs a very small speed boost.

Yeah what I meant by bleeding speed upwind is the OW speed/sailing profile. In battle, its really not bad. Even with a full stack of downwind mods I could make a reasonable speed upwind. Its the OW performance that is the biggest drawback of Wapen, for me. Loodsman isn't enough to fix it, either.

Agreed, she's probably not the best ship to try to make a go-fast boat....but then it has little use as a tank ship either. Ingermanland has nearly the same turn rate, faster speed, better broadside guns...they're mostly equal in a duel, but for a fleet engagement I'll pick Ingermanland or another 4th rate over Wapen. And then looking at Bellona and Aggy....either of those can fill the same role as a brawling Wapen.

I find it hard to think of a reason why I'd sail Wapen for anything other than duels (where it excels). Maybe build a cheap teak/wo one with disposable mods, sail to a safezone and fight till I get sunk...but thats not my playstyle. It *can* serve well as a support ship in a fleet engagement, but much like the Essex, there are other ships that can fill that same support role while also being more useful in other roles too.


Regardless, Wapen does need a speed boost, maybe an HP boost, and a fix for the OW profile.  Wapen should be good turn rate, decent speed, decent tank but few large caliber guns.

Basically the ranking of fourth rates should be something like this, IMO. (Basically what it used to be before the balance of 4th rates was ruined with hurr durr thickness Aggies)

HP: Aggy > Connie > Wapen > Inger  
Thickness: Connie > Aggy > Wapen > Inger  
Speed: Connie > Inger > Wapen > Aggy 
Turn rate: Wapen > Inger > Aggy > Connie 
Sailing profile: Connie > Inger > Wapen > Aggy

 

I'd be cautious about buffing Ingermanland too much because I think its already in a nice spot. Small HP buff wouldn't be OP, but she still needs to be the glass cannon 4th rate with good speed and turn rate.

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8 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

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I'm not sure if the player or the ship was crap. 

Classic. LOL I think we've finally broken Kingy for dueling (see my sig). 

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15 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

She was more of a "convoy escort" than a proper warship, right ?

Yeah and in terms of age she's about half a century older than most of the other ships in game.. If I recall correctly ofc.. If I recall correctly the ingame Wappen is the model from 1722, only the Ingermanland is older.. Personally I don't believe all ships should be equal, but they should be balanced in terms of ressources to make them. 

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9 hours ago, William Death said:

 

Regardless, Wapen does need a speed boost, maybe an HP boost, and a fix for the OW profile.  Wapen should be good turn rate, decent speed, decent tank but few large caliber guns.

 

 

I'd be cautious about buffing Ingermanland too much because I think its already in a nice spot. Small HP buff wouldn't be OP, but she still needs to be the glass cannon 4th rate with good speed and turn rate.

Srry but I don't agree here.

As far as I'm concerned there's nothing wrong with ships not being equal. The balancing factor could very well be finances - economical viability for the ships considering the materials required to craft them. I hate mods simply for making the ships matter less and the value of the mods matter more than actual skill (not supporting KoC - he's a jackass), but these two ships - as you point out are simply not worth investing good mods on, but that shouldn't be an argument to give the ships a buff per se.

The two ships in question are both the oldest in the game (makes sense they'd be inferior since technology made massive jumps in the timeframe we're talking about) and both ships were constructed by nations and warfs that had little to no knowledge and experience with producing genuine warships. The Hanse states did not have a state navy comparable to the navies of more centralized and organized states like VP (first and foremost in terms of organising their warfs/warehouses/stores for the first part of the 17th century. The decline of VP were in large part due to other nations catching up on the infrastructure and organisational level), GB, France, Spain, DK/NG - all had centralised procurement and manufacturing codex'.. The hanse states never reached neither the organisational skills and infrastructural investments that were required to have dedicated warships, neither did they really have a need for it. The russians came much later to the party and the Ingermanland is an interesting ship as a first effort to showcase the world that russia was becoming a naval power, but it would take russia another 100 years to catch up with the rest of the world in terms of technology, shipdesign, organisation and procurement of quality ressources required for shipbuilding..

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9 hours ago, Wraith said:

Classic. LOL I think we've finally broken Kingy for dueling (see my sig). 

It was so great, I smashed alot of wo outside LA Navasse at that time and will never forget the way I forced Otto to guard their join circle so I could finally put that bitch were he belongs. Every player knows loosing a battle to mast sniping is a pain in the ass so I did it. I wouldn't ever target masts in a good fight.

If you look at chat you can see he lost masts after repair 3 minutes into battle :)

He said he should have ganked me just for tagging him lol. Who starts a battle chat like that? What a piece of shit. 

I have offered him no upgrades trinco duels as well with no dismast rules but he refuses. He is just trash, plain and simple. 

He agreed to do a 2v1 with me vs him and Rabman though. Just goes to show what kind of delusional world he lives in. 

Edited by HachiRoku
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20 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

nu61CtU.png

I'm not sure if the player or the ship was crap. 

 

11 hours ago, Wraith said:

Classic. LOL I think we've finally broken Kingy for dueling (see my sig). 


^^ This will never get old
Especially the verbal diarrhea that comes out of his mouth every time he sinks
 🤣😝😆
 

Edited by koltes
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Amazing how you fellows can turn any subject of any thread into personal affairs.

Must be really boring out there huh !?

Anyway, three ships ( that i remember ) share a early timeframe - La Renomee, Ingermanland and Wapen von Hamburg.

They are "seldom" used due to the fact that, with equipments and skill books there's little reason to not use better flat numbers, and replace those options with Bellonas and late period frigates.

 

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21 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Amazing how you fellows can turn any subject of any thread into personal affairs.

Must be really boring out there huh !?

Anyway, three ships ( that i remember ) share a early timeframe - La Renomee, Ingermanland and Wapen von Hamburg.

They are "seldom" used due to the fact that, with equipments and skill books there's little reason to not use better flat numbers, and replace those options with Bellonas and late period frigates.

 

There is no reason to fly an f5 over an f15 in a game yet I find her the coolest fighter ever built. The Wapen has no need to be balanced to other ships of its "class". I sailed the trinco through the OP times, the over nerft times and will still sail her because I like her. I cryed on the forums about her and the Endy because both ships were famous for being the pinnacle of sailing ships. The communitys problem is most of then like to Meta game unlike myself and even you. 

About the salt. He asked for Wapen captures and I delivered. Where are your screenshots? 

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4 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Nah, i don't have any. Not pro enough.

 

Its OK mate, I only make them to feed my ego. I have a very lonely and sad life you know. 

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