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Testbed - econ/crafting changes

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I don't want to limit anything with hard caps, that would end up being a bad thing. 

I seriously still don't understand how reals and doubloons are going to work, and how many you get from rewards or missions.

If it is going to be like it is right now on the testbed, it's going to suuuuuuuuck. 

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5 minutes ago, SirAlatriste said:

I totally agree, dear admin.

I'm now reading Patrick O'Brian's books and a first rate is a first rate: not all captains had their first rate in the port, waiting them; a first rate needed a lot of stuff to maintain and it cost a lot to build it. We can't have 5 of them easily in every particular dock, unless we deserve it.

As a suggestion I would add, if I were you, the possibility of rename every first rate ship, to make them an appreciated good and a unic ship... And people will love that, you know mate, it is that so hard to do it?

Thank you, really great job.

Hardcore changes will make the servers even more empty than now.

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34 minutes ago, Batman said:

Grind is not content.

Maybe not for you, but there are plenty of players who are happy with this and don't like PVP players (known as Neanderthals)

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4 minutes ago, Batman said:

but don't tell me that 100.000 players (numbers of sold NA copies) are actively taking part in forum discussions and suggestions.

And good % of forum members was extremely upset in 2014 that we dont have 4 hour battles, and left. We cant focus on everyone as some ideas are outside of the scope of the design thinking. In terms of the discussion I do not understand the relevance of your comments to the specifics of the economy on the testbed. This makes this conversation off topic.

 

Lets focus on the economy in this topic

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27 minutes ago, admin said:

Grind of what exactly? You only need to rank up. You can capture almost anything from players. And you can capture ANY ship you see on the PVE server from NPCs. The fact that you want something does not mean everyone wants it. There are a lot of players here on the forum and in game that actually want to limit first rates per nation, based on merit for example! And would love the game more if this happens.  Some proposed auctions for permits (where people will bid for permits like they bid for cartagena tar or copper)

I would be more inclined to limit the percentage of 1st and 2nd rates per battle.  Everybody who buys this game envisions themselves on a 1st rate at some point (except for the weird small ship lovers like me).  Basing ownership of the big sexy ships on some form of merit system would be elitist and incredibly unfair to everyone else.

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40 minutes ago, Batman said:

Grind is not content.

We already had the feature of conquest marks, which limited access to ships in a sailing game. It worked like a charm.

People quit because suddenly they couldn't sail their favourite ship anymore.

An "Extra Dubloons" DLC would be a great addition to the Naval Action DLC line up.

Playing is not grinding. Dubloons needs to be balanced properly, I agree (no to teleport fee!) but if done right you will get that great middle point in saving dubloons and having fun. Situation like we have now where people sail their "expendable" first rates to patrol zone is terrible as well.

Like I said in post above, the game dynamics is going to change in added content. Please see the whole picture here.

37 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

What I said, crazy requirements for doubloons.

It may look like that now. Hopefully it will be well balanced (no to teleport fee!).

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I really would like an overview of what to expect for income, rewards, and the like.

How many reals/doubloons would you get for sinking a cerb as an example? A bellona?

I am not against ships costing literally thousands of doubloons if it means we can get thousands of doubloons still. Currently my expectation is that I'll maybe get 100 at most during a 1-2 hour play session. 

As @admin said, econ/currency is not final, but we sorely need to know what to expect. Because without an explanation this isn't going to be popular.

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1 minute ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I would be more inclined to limit the percentage of 1st and 2nd rates per battle.  Everybody who buys this game envisions themselves on a 1st rate at some point (except for the weird small ship lovers like me).  Basing ownership of the big sexy ships on some form of merit system would be elitist and incredibly unfair to everyone else.

if player made SoLs are expensive it wil become more varied IF its a ship wipe, because else we will have 1 or 2 nations with full first rate fleets that steamrolls everything. It will also be good when you can board and keep an AI SoL because you know its a shit build because you dont know if it has 1 upgrade slot or 5 and it will always be crew space so it will get slaughtered by a crafted player ship, the only thing it would be good for is fireship and rageboarding

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59 minutes ago, admin said:

Grind of what exactly? You only need to rank up. You can capture almost anything from players. And you can capture ANY ship you see on the PVE server from NPCs. The fact that you want something does not mean everyone wants it. There are a lot of players here on the forum and in game that actually want to limit first rates per nation, based on merit for example! And would love the game more if this happens.  Some proposed auctions for permits (where people will bid for permits like they bid for cartagena tar or copper)

 

 I am rather interested in how you would define "merit",  or how limited ships would be distributed. 

 I am fairly sure the same people that would like limited first rate ships would be suddenly against the idea if they found they were not the people who got the ships on whatever system was devised.  While limiting ships per nation on the surface may seem viable in some way, doing so to much would mean decline of interest in RvR more than we have currently i think. Especially now global and EU servers are merged and need for viable national fleets in both time zones.

Maybe i'm wrong though, at end of day is up to you guys which way you wish to proceed. Personally i wouldn't mind either way as i avoid sailing first rates and large port battles, the sail to and from a 1st rate port battle i find kinda tedious and usually have to walk the goldfish or insert random excuse :) .

 

 

 

Edited by Dibbler

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20 minutes ago, admin said:

And good % of forum members was extremely upset in 2014 that we dont have 4 hour battles, and left. We cant focus on everyone as some ideas are outside of the scope of the design thinking. In terms of the discussion I do not understand the relevance of your comments to the specifics of the economy on the testbed. This makes this conversation off topic.

 

Lets focus on the economy in this topic

Lets focus.

 

One mission on the testbed: around 100 doubloons.

Requirements for doing an ocean: 7000 doubloons.

Result: 70 missions needed to craft one ocean.

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13 hours ago, Borch said:

ships1.thumb.png.aa9d0d95b290608ea65a9deb47a8adaa.png

ships2.png

ships3.png

ships4.png

The permits are 1 VM for 1st rates, 70 Doubloons for the Bucc and Pavel, 50 for Bellona and 30 for 3rd rate.  That on top of the several thoughsands your paying while building it. I think that build rate is way to high.  2-3K for a 4th rate means you loose one it's going to cost you.  Folks loose 4-5th rates and even 3rd rates all the time daily right now. It's going to shut it down where no one will want to come out in anything big and fight folks that will just roll the coast and the FREE GANK ZONES like they all ready do, but since the gankers have tones of marks or future Doubloons and they loose a ship they can just buy a new one, while the casual who keeps getting sunk either trying to protect the coast or missiong getting jump won't have the marks/doubloons to buy new ships....they will be stuck in 5th rate and below.

Oh and on a side note I can buy a Bellown for 30 Doubloons in the PvP shop....and it cost over 4200 doubloons pluss the mats to craft one?   WHAT THE DUCK?  Yah right now crafting is hello kittyed......again why aren't we seeing the actual stats for these stuff.....this is a joke it kills the crafters and makes every one just buy the notes.

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13 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

One mission on the testbed: around 100 doubloons.

Requirements for doing an ocean: 7000 doubloons.

Result: 70 missions needed to craft one ocean.

On 9/25/2018 at 2:13 PM, admin said:

Important: Economy changes are not deployed on test bed and some prices could seem too high or too low.  Rewards for kills are also not final. This is a deliberate choice to not give out too much information too early. Final economy changes with real prices will only be deployed on live servers.

 

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2 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

WHAT THE DUCK?  Yah right now crafting is hello kittyed..

All changes aren't in yet as admin has reminded you of a few times already.  (Ninja'd by admin)

Are you going to continue to overreact based on partial info?

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1 minute ago, admin said:

 

Then all this conversation is pointless.

Why don't you just release the final economy changes in the testbed so we can give proper feedback?

This will be better for everyone and it will decrease the chances of urgent hotfixes and unnecessary dramas.

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20 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Lets focus.

 

One mission on the testbed: around 100 doubloons.

Requirements for doing an ocean: 7000 doubloons.

Result: 70 missions needed to craft one ocean.

I haven't seen a mission that pays more than 60 and that is to hunt a 1st rate with a 2nd rate or lower.   I'm sure they are out there but it's not the normal pay out which is more like 40-60 for the good big missions.

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26 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Then all this conversation is pointless.

Why don't you just release the final economy changes in the testbed so we can give proper feedback?

This will be better for everyone and it will decrease the chances of urgent hotfixes and unnecessary dramas.

#septemberwasalie

Funny thought this patch was going to be read months ago.  It's still no where ready as I don't think they even worked on the econ to be honest.   I mean what the point of us testing stuff if most of it is not in there.  I don't mind if you left out the rewards and locataion of certain rare items, but this isn't rewards we are talkign about this is crafting and econ...which was part of the patch cause your changing it.  So when should we expect this patch to go live?  December?   At this rate I'll be surprised you even make that.  Get every thing on the testserver, let us test it so we can help you get the bugs out of it and balance it so you don't piss off the majority of the few players you have left or those that return and be done with it.  Hell I'll even sign a dang NDA and let you lock the testbed until it's done and ready.

 

Funny thing just attacked an LVG on testbed with 10K cargo....I did an F11 of it, but slowly making it back to port at 1 knt lol

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37 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I haven't seen a mission that pays more than 60 and that is to hunt a 1st rate with a 2nd rate or lower.   I'm sure they are out there but it's not the normal pay out which is more like 40-60 for the good big missions.

i've seen several missions paying 250 doubloons, although hard ones and away from safe areas, but thats i guess the risk/reward game ;)

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12 minutes ago, Wyy said:

i've seen several missions paying 250 doubloons, although hard ones and away from safe areas, but thats i guess the risk/reward game ;)

Good to know just doing level up right now since I got the crafting done, and around the home ports.  I guess I prob should take one of the chars out and get lost.

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2 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Those players are a minority.

Check the ratings the game get in steam with Patch 10 and you will see who is right.

Please don't mention ratings and this community..... The fact that you can rate this game is beyond me. I am waiting for release until I give an unbiased fair oppinion of the game. 

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Are we going to get a:

.player driven economy?

 or

.a semi player driven economy?  

 

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1 hour ago, Thonys said:

Are we going to get a:

.player driven economy?

 or

.a semi player driven economy?  

 

As we have it, it's an alt-driven economy, which will be further reinforced with pay-for-teleport changes. Working as intended?

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27 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Alts won't have to sail ? Or am I missing something ?

depends which alts.

The economy focused ones just stay in port and overbid everyone. Example: carta

so yea, no need to sail or teleport

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No different from now, pre-patch.

Every bid adds tax to the port owners. Most of the tax in Cartagena is due to bids, not real assets moving hands.

If 10 bid war, 1 gets the goods, 9 guys paid in tax almost what the assets cost themselves.

I see no economic issue.

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