Repair Balancing

[Angus MacDuff]

2 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

In all cases I would like to see also OW limited repairs: fair unreal a ship badly damaged leaving a battle and being perfectly brand new a second later. Or at least allowing full repairs in OW allowed on cooldown only with ship stopped in shallow waters.

Licinio, this is an important point.  For purposes of gameplay only, I believe that if we carry repair kits that can't be used in battle, we should be able to use them for full repair in OW after the fight.  This would simulate a damaged ship pulling into a quiet cove and using local lumber, etc to fully repair.  We all know that RL battles were not back to back and happening every ten minutes as they do in NA, so we need a bridge between reality and game play that allows us to stay at sea and not return to a distant port.

[Cmdr RideZ]

Back to the old repair kits please.

I have already made countless posts why multireps destroy combat so am not going to repeat it here.

Kits also bind you to port and turned ow pvp to gank.

A hard fight, your enemy has more BR or players are equally skilled. Both sides use all repair kits. You are victorious and have 0 repair kits. You pop or timer pops you back to OW and be ganked to another fight with 0 repair kits.

It is a terrible system that we have now. Have no idea why this has not been fixed already. Worst feature the game has right now.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Cmdr RideZ

[Slim McSauce]

6 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Back to the old repair kits please.

I have already made countless posts why multireps destroy combat so am not going to repeat it here.

Kits also bind you to port and turned ow pvp to gank.

A hard fight, your enemy has more BR or players are equally skilled. Both sides use all repair kits. You are victorious and have 0 repair kits. You pop or timer pops you back to OW and be ganked to another fight with 0 repair kits.

It is a terrible system that we have now. Have no idea why this has not been fixed already. Worst feature the game has right now.

there's a lot wrong with it, that's for certain. How do you fix it in one foul swoop without leaving on pause, attending to other things that need fixing?
Here's what I would do, implement 3 repair max and make fires more severe by having them grow more before dying down (unless you put all your crew in survival) to quickly bat down the flames. From there sit back and how players adapt, and tweak accordingly to feedback, but not the mob.

@admin

Edited October 23, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Jack Jones]

Absolutely not needed. This would be a backward step. The repairs now work very well. You just have to try a bit harder and you will get better with them.

[Hethwill]

Let the upgrade arrive. Verify the reality after the reworked modules combinations. Then come back to this.  

Speed, repairs, etc all "suffer" at this exact moment from the same - stacking or the lack of.

One small detail I see happening a lot is folk letting themselves go very low on broadside health and only then popup a repair. Maybe they don't know that the less "HP" the less thickness effect...

 

[Jack Jones]

Exactly less hull less thickness.

I like the skill involved in repair tactics now and it is as important as how you fire your guns.

[Old Crusty]

1 hour ago, Flash Jack said:

I like the skill involved in repair tactics now and it is as important as how you fire your guns

This is exactly why it needs to change. When repairs are just as important as how you fire your guns then you know for sure that the system is broken. Repairing in battle is to easy and to effective.

[Sir Loorkon]

How about impleminting a constant repair of 1% per minute (without repairkid) that represents the constant repair of minor damages. In addition we could use a limited two or three repairkids for major damage. Just a suggestion. 

[Slim McSauce]

37 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

How about impleminting a constant repair of 1% per minute (without repairkid) that represents the constant repair of minor damages. In addition we could use a limited two or three repairkids for major damage. Just a suggestion. 

Would take too long just 1% every minute, but with a few repair kits that maybe do anywhere from 20-30% repair each, with less of a timer inbetween then it should balance out better than the repair 40% every 10 minutes for 80 minutes we have now. (counting both rum and repairs)

Edited October 23, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[William Death]

4 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

This is exactly why it needs to change. When repairs are just as important as how you fire your guns then you know for sure that the system is broken. Repairing in battle is to easy and to effective.

I agree with the second part, repairs are too easy and too effective. 

But I disagree with the first part: I think repairs are actually less important now than they used to be.

6 hours ago, Flash Jack said:

I like the skill involved in repair tactics now and it is as important as how you fire your guns.

Again, as above I don't think there is any skill in repairing with the unlimited repairs. Regarding importance: repair timing has always been as important as how you well you can sail and shoot. But now its less so. You just repair as often as you can. The only time there is some skill, is knowing when to pop the first repair. After that, you keep spamming them unless you're full health (then you wait till you get beat up again then spam more reps). 

You get one every 12 minutes--so if you screw up, all you have to do is keep distance while also keeping the enemy tagged at range, then repair and come back. Before, you couldn't do that. If you engaged close against a determined enemy, there was no "pulling away to repair" unless you were already fighting better than he was (beating him at the HP game, or you've demasted him, chained him after his repair, etc.). 

 

What irks me is that people look at fights where small enemies defeated a larger enemy, and they think, "Oh how skilled those few are, and look at the noobs that got wrecked by a couple Bellonas!" There is some skill, sure (it is, after all, mostly players who are already good that benefit the most from spamming reps and clubbing the seals). But mostly it is that these players know what gear to use and how to properly spam repairs.

Its not a tactic that I should hit hull rep every 12 minutes if my hull has damage but sails are good. Its not a tactic to know to hit sail rep every 12 minutes if enemy is chaining me and trying to catch me. Its common sense. What IS a tactic is deciding to use my one hull rep early on to preserve thickness and HP, or bank on it later for a boost of HP when my ship is weak but my enemy's is weaker. Or repairing sails early to keep my masts a bit longer, or hope the enemy gives up before they fall and then I'll have the repair in case he sneakily chains me later on.

 

But maybe I'm just a salty vet talking about the glory days of NA...

[Batman]

I want the old rep system back tbh.

You made a mistake and you got punished for it, for example dismasted or received a horrific sternrake.

These days, it doesn't matter if I dismast my enemy or can knock out his crew. Playing smart is not rewarded and mistakes are not punished.

 

I've had battles where an enemy would just start sailing upwind because "rep ready in 5 minutes". Great skill and tactics.

[Hethwill]

Both methods have merit.

Say a 3v1 in the old system. 9 repairs vs 3.

What we would do was to cycle during the battle ( not unlike what is done today ).

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Both methods have merit.

Say a 3v1 in the old system. 9 repairs vs 3.

What we would do was to cycle during the battle ( not unlike what is done today ).

One you're cycling indefinitely, the other you have to use repairs sparingly. No argument which one takes more skill.

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, Slim McSauce said:

One you're cycling indefinitely, the other you have to use repairs sparingly. No argument which one takes more skill.

None does.

Seamanship is the skill we missing with our turn and burn and powerboats

Don't excuse the shortcomings of a system with the weakness of another.

 

 

[Slim McSauce]

One repair it is then 

Edited October 23, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Hethwill]

Just now, Slim McSauce said:

One repair it is then 

Aye. No mods, no books, no perks.

[Sir Loorkon]

Slim, you should consider that lone hunting (except with Requins and Herks) is nearly dead atm. If you limit repairs and let this insane chaindamage stay as it is, you will make it even worse.

At the moment the defender has an advantage because the attacker has to expose himself. High chaindamage in combination with only one chance of rigrepair will make it harder for the attacker. Your suggestion will reduce kills in OW PvP. There will be more running away and ganking with 1:X situation will get worse.

Maybe a limitation of repairs could be nice, but not with this high chaindamage. People will take a cheap fleet AI ship as a chainer with unlimited chains (AI chains are not limited, saw this already) and all you will get is a broken, less skill based, combat system. 

So I say NO to your suggestion.

[Slim McSauce]

5 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

Slim, you should consider that lone hunting (except with Requins and Herks) is nearly dead atm. If you limit repairs and let this insane chaindamage stay as it is, you will make it even worse.

At the moment the defender has an advantage because the attacker has to expose himself. High chaindamage in combination with only one chance of rigrepair will make it harder for the attacker. Your suggestion will reduce kills in OW PvP. There will be more running away and ganking with 1:X situation will get worse.

Maybe a limitation of repairs could be nice, but not with this high chaindamage. People will take a cheap fleet AI ship as a chainer with unlimited chains (AI chains are not limited, saw this already) and all you will get is a broken, less skill based, combat system. 

So I say NO to your suggestion.

Chain is limited in number and damage is easily avoided with simple positioning and manual sails to reduce area.

[Sir Loorkon]

6 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

Chain is limited in number and damage is easily avoided with simple positioning and manual sails to reduce area.

I estimate that you do not do PvP alone, do you?

Edit: Would you like to have a nice little duel? I will show you what I mean. I recommend 5th rates (no Herk please)

Edited October 24, 2018 by Sir Loorkon
addition

[Slim McSauce]

22 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I estimate that you do not do PvP alone, do you?

Edit: Would you like to have a nice little duel? I will show you what I mean. I recommend 5th rates (no Herk please)

I have and I will. I don't own any ship DLC so no worries.

[Sir Loorkon]

Nice! When and where should we meet? Are you online atm? 

edit: I send you an ingame message

Edited October 24, 2018 by Sir Loorkon
edit

[Liq]

I kind of can see both sides here.

Multi Repair in smaller, especially even battles, can be a good thing and reward agressive play.

However, as battles get more ganky, the more the unbalanced-ness gets amplified. 6v2, 6 ships recover 600 hp in the time 2 recover 200.

But in the end I like it better with multirep (given we now have shared cooldown between hull and rig reps, which gives it another tactical dimension).

[Slim McSauce]

@Sir Loorkon

if you want the first word of the results..

Seriously I'm not trying to rub it in, go ahead and say what you want to say before I say I was right.

Edited October 24, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Sir Loorkon]

Oh, I think I am right. You where in the role of the attacker first and you sacrificed 20% sails. I told you that I would run now when I was the defender. Than we changed roles and I played the attacker and sacrificed 40% on my sails against 25% of yours. So I think my point is clear and proven. 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Sir Loorkon said:

Oh, I think I am right. You where in the role of the attacker first and you sacrificed 20% sails. I told you that I would run now when I was the defender. Than we changed roles and I played the attacker and sacrificed 40% on my sails against 25% of yours. So I think my point is clear and proven. 

20% of sails that are easily repaired if you did decide to run, not to mention I had bow chasers to keep you tagged until the repair finished.

In total I used 1 hull repair, you used 1 sail rep, We both used the opposite repair after the battle was concluded. So 1 repair for a 30 minute 1v1 that was fairly close, that just proves to me you don't need 5 repairs a battle to be competitive, you can avoid damage if you position yourself correctly.