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rediii

predator of the requin needed

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19 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Oh ūüėģ¬†

Can you link the announcement about this ELO system ? thanks

 

Hi Hethwill,

I took this as a ELO type thing:

Major BR rebalance

  • We are gradually moving away from the static BR based on HP and DPS characteristics and will also consider several other factors including battle performance data.¬†
  • How it will work
    • Ships with much lower performance statistics will have lower BR even if they are a higher class vessel. For example 2nd rate pavel having a much worse battle performance than 3rd rate Bellona will have a lower BR than Bellona.¬†
  • The changes will be applied gradually as full performance based BR is currently impossible as it will break old mission system. Once new mission system is added in September we will let battle performance influence the ship BR slightly more.
  • This will mostly affect the port battles and will require captains to recalculate their battle plans for future conquests.

Kind Regards

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 For port battle the Req's are a pain in the ass, 1 or 2 circles tend to be req vs req infinity fight... going on and on and on and.... yep you get it :D .

 Removing all DLC and ships just introduced ships (in sea trials) from port battles would be a good move i think. Like when Wasa was first introduced and port battles became infested with them before rebalance etc and will probably happen again with the one to be given for being on test server.

As for something to counter the Req would just introduce yet another annoying ship that nobody can catch lol.

 

Edited by Dibbler
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@Miaowi Got what you mean.

I know BR have been adjusted manually.

Problem with a ELO is that after a undefined amount of time everything will be the same value.

You know, like a victory/defeat ratio tends to orbitate towards 50% :) 

 

I like to look to age of sail as a period where designs served a purpose. A frigate couldn't do what a snow would, nor a schooner could do what a lugger would. A frigate could be transformed into a "indiaman" but would never be a Indiaman ( see the below deck cargo hold space and how deep the keel goes compared to a frigate ).

That is what we miss :) Combat is outstanding but where's the rest of the age of sail even in conquest ? Where's the supplies being delivered to occupation troops ? Where's the transports taking out the plunder from a newly conquered town ? Where's the dedicated mass fishing ships ? We have a do-it-all in all ships :) 

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1 hour ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

@Miaowi Got what you mean.

I know BR have been adjusted manually.

Problem with a ELO is that after a undefined amount of time everything will be the same value.

You know, like a victory/defeat ratio tends to orbitate towards 50% :) 

 

I like to look to age of sail as a period where designs served a purpose. A frigate couldn't do what a snow would, nor a schooner could do what a lugger would. A frigate could be transformed into a "indiaman" but would never be a Indiaman ( see the below deck cargo hold space and how deep the keel goes compared to a frigate ).

That is what we miss :) Combat is outstanding but where's the rest of the age of sail even in conquest ? Where's the supplies being delivered to occupation troops ? Where's the transports taking out the plunder from a newly conquered town ? Where's the dedicated mass fishing ships ? We have a do-it-all in all ships :) 

In a way it is like WW II aviation, In the RAF the prestige appointments were in Fighter Command as opposed to Bomber, Coastal and Transport commands, within Fighter command there were only two airframes worth flying, the glamourous Spitfires or the maid of all work Hurricanes, no sane fighter pilot wanted to fly Gladiators or the Defiants, Every man and his dog wanted Spitfires, yet it was the less desired Hurricanes that carried the load, mainly because Hurricanes could be produced faster than Spitfires, Hurricanes won the Battle of Britain, the Gladiators of Malta did far more to defend that Island than Spitfires and Hurricanes did, yet everyone wanted to fly Spitfires. 

Likewise in the 18/19th Century Ships of the Line were the commands everyone trained for, or wanted, few got them, those who did were on fast track to Flag rank,  they were the pride of the fleet, unlike the Frigates which were the maids of all work and steppingstones to the prized SoL commands, yet, there were some officers who'd sell their mother for a berth aboard HMS  Endymion or the Indy, the prestige ships of the Frigate world. Who, as an ambitious Midshipman, wanted a berth aboard small ships, why have the Bounty or the Snow when you could have Endy or Indy, better still, Royal Sovereign or Victory? 

However, then, as now, you go where you are needed not where you want to be, in game, we can choose our own commands, we have accelerated promotion which means we don't stay on one type of ship long enough to appreciate their characteristics, to learn thoroughly the intricacies of sailing and fighting  small ships before driving a Victory, then, losing her quickly because we don't yet know enough to use her wisely.  

Some of the best combat Captains in game are masters at sailing small ships, Gregory Rainsborough and his Snow's, Hatchirouku and his Trincomalee's, to be the best SoL Captains you have to learn from the bottom up, that means transports, sloops, small ships, Frigates and ultimately Ships of the Line, If you cannot handle a Frigate at a Commander's level and are promoted Post Captain how can you sail and fight a Third rate never mind the Victory! it's why Midshipmen/Ensigns were required to of had at least one prize command under their belt, preferably more to iron out any issues arising from the first command, and, sit the Lt's examination, perhaps, in game the first half of the tutorial could include promotion to Lt, with Master and Commander qualification on completion of the full tutorial, by this point Captains should be competent enough to work for higher promotion. 

New players should take the time to practice what they have learned in one part of the tutorial before attempting the next, (assuming that they take the tutorial) learn how ships perform at given weights or wind states and points of sail, promotion may be slower, but, there is no point in learning combat skills if you can barely sail the ship, the knowledge you gain may mean the difference between a successful cruise or dining with Davy Jones Esq. Try all the ships out, use the ones you feel most comfortable with, just because someone else believes the Endymion is the best ship since weevil free hardtack, it does not mean it is the right ship for you. Working as a trader for a while provides that sailing experience, learning combat skills is easier once you are confident in your ability to actually sail the ship as you don't need to second guess the sailing part. Even Spitfire pilots learned to fly in Tiger Moths before training as a combat pilot, so it is with learning to sail and fight warships. Sailing supplies, troops and plunder, as dull as it is,  earns gold, xp, and sailing experience, especially if you learn how to evade your friendly, local pirates, or, enemy warships, and, particularly, the commerce raiders, who make life so interesting for traders and warship commanders alike! 

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Thats why more ranks are needed to give players ranking up reasons to use more of the smaller ships to learn all the tricks and features of the different ships until they one day can sail a SoL.

And many famous captains from the Age of sail era gained the fame and fortune as a commander of a frigate as they was good at taking prizes while a SoL mostly did not gain much chances to capture prizes.

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11 hours ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

 

 

27 minutes ago, Niagara said:

 

There are players that suck with over 1000 hohrs because they just grinded trough ranks

there are players that are good with 100 hours because they started pvp early

 

Making the grind longer doesnt help. Also if you are good in a frigate you are good in a lineship. Believe it or not the way this game works is the same with every ship, obly stats and the speed change.

Shallow portbattles are more difficult than lineship pbs because of the time you have to make a decision. Lineship portbattles are easier most of the time.

There are some basic skills that dont change.

 

Shooting

manual sailing standard and experienced

staying upwind

boarding

leaking and mastsniping

knowledge of sailingprofiles

knowledge which ship loses bow against which ship

pushing enemy ships, how to push alone and how to push with 2 players vs 1

PB mechanics

OW tag mechanics and the importance of positioning at tag

raking

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Good points. They are as old as NA itself and not exclusive to NA. :) 

If the world is made cruel, it doesn't work. If it is made comfy, it doesn't work.

Maybe comfortably cruel works ?

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Caveat: Very much a pvp noob here, only really had small skirmishes and never partaken in a PB

I'm assuming that the PB limit seen on port hover over is the max BR allowed in a PB for that port

I'm also assuming/hoping that the BR adjustment spoken about in that patch update is not a single event. i.e the BR is constantly adjusted depending on a ships win loss ratio

If these statements are correct I do think this mechanic might help with balancing certain ships in PB's

The same was applied in Megamek ( an online battletech boardgame sim) Very powerful mechs that consistently won (i.e were better than other chassis and gave the player an edge) would see their BR increase substantially over time, the converse was true for weaker mechs who saw their BR decrease.

Over time some of the weaker mechs became very viable sometimes seeing a 30% reduction in original BR.

Say this was to apply to the Requin and we saw its BR value increase substantially could this not result in seeing it less in PBs? Say if its BR was 250 or something

 

Edited by Miaowi

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59 minutes ago, rediii said:

Making the grind longer doesnt help. Also if you are good in a frigate you are good in a lineship.

I agree and I dont want a longer grind.

Just more levels without increasing the total amount of Exp needed to reach max level. Redistrubution of that total with a few more levels in the middle so that we dont have such jumps in Max crew so people skip some of the ships as people will sail the biggest they can.

That way players will use more different ships while grinding and be better prepared once they get to 4th and 3rd rates. 

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Soooooo, on Le Reqins….

Me and my buddy tagged one last night in our Hercs.  He decided to run so there was nothing we could do.  When we left the instance, we just ignored each other.  What would the point have been?  Later, I got tagged by a Req who had a friend nearby, so I didn't want to fight.  He couldn't catch me so again, an indecisive battle.  On several occasions I have fought Reqs and beat them.  I don't think I've ever been boarded by one of them (and I've been boarded by an Indiaman!!).  They're just a pain in the ass and I hate the look of them.  Send them back to the Med or do what someone else suggested on this thread and let them sink whenever they hit a deep water wave.

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10 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

let them sink whenever they hit a deep water wave

This two mast xebec ( kaik ) crossed the entire Atlantic to bring the news of the defeat of Napoleon to the Portuguese Court exiled in Brazil.

It evaded french corsairs, pirates and storms.

It is of note that, indeed, the kaik was meant for coastal waters and not ocean going. Still it did it.

image.png.8410d8b3dcce62ba8284c71d6a022102.png1722974_hWnzZ.jpeg

( exact replica of the kaik xebec "Bom Sucesso" which brought the news of Napoleon defeat to the exiled Portuguese Court)

 

- same could be said about ships of the line, they were built to fight in the fleet, not roam like frigates and acting pirates ;) but we can do it, sail them however we want

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15 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

This two mast xebec ( kaik ) crossed the entire Atlantic to bring the news of the defeat of Napoleon to the Portuguese Court exiled in Brazil.

It evaded french corsairs, pirates and storms.

It is of note that, indeed, the kaik was meant for coastal waters and not ocean going. Still it did it.

image.png.8410d8b3dcce62ba8284c71d6a022102.png1722974_hWnzZ.jpeg

( exact replica of the kaik xebec "Bom Sucesso" which brought the news of Napoleon defeat to the exiled Portuguese Court)

 

- same could be said about ships of the line, they were built to fight in the fleet, not roam like frigates and acting pirates ;) but we can do it, sail them however we want

Thor Heyerdall crossed the Atlantic in a boat made of grass.  Doesn't mean it belongs in the Caribbean server.  Viking longboats...Celtic coracles...

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5 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Thor Heyerdall crossed the Atlantic in a boat made of grass.  Doesn't mean it belongs in the Caribbean server.  Viking longboats...Celtic coracles...

I feel the same way about line-ships....  keep em out of the Caribbean...  

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42 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Thor Heyerdall crossed the Atlantic in a boat made of grass.  Doesn't mean it belongs in the Caribbean server.  Viking longboats...Celtic coracles...

Should we contact the Spain archives for a full list of xebecs and half xebecs built and in service in the caribbean ?... I mean, everyone loves the El Gamo story right ? What was she if not a xebec ?

C'moooon .... 

Word is "be reasonable" :) 

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My bigotry is unreasonable and wont change.  I hate that Barbery coast POS.  Perhaps its because of my love of the fictional characters I have read about who are always in square riggers.  That's my perception of what the Caribbean server should look like.  As far as a Xebec predator is concerned, I think that's been answered.  The Prince can catch it and if well Captained, can kill it.  or, slow it down for something with heavier guns to catch up.  Other than that, they are easily ignored (unless your luck is bad).

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From the beginning, NA was a combat game between ships during the Age of sail, whatever the kind of ships.

Then Admin proposed the implementation of an OW. Players said yes. An OW was implemented.

The question was then : should it be a fantasy one or a realistic one ? 

Option 2 was chosen. Then came the question of the location of this realistic one.

The Caribbean was chosen.

My point is : NA is a game about combat, crafting, commerce (...) during Age of Sail, its location is of minor importance. 

Let's have all kind of ships of the Age of Sail in NA. For fun.

The Caribbean and the large time period (1680-1820) are indeed just a vague background. It could also have been as well :  'sometime during in the 18th century on a fantasy map'.

(maybe it should have been...)

A purely realistic game (with a shorter time frame to begin with) is a different game.

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5 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

My bigotry is unreasonable and wont change.  I hate that Barbery coast POS.  Perhaps its because of my love of the fictional characters I have read about who are always in square riggers.  That's my perception of what the Caribbean server should look like.  As far as a Xebec predator is concerned, I think that's been answered.  The Prince can catch it and if well Captained, can kill it.  or, slow it down for something with heavier guns to catch up.  Other than that, they are easily ignored (unless your luck is bad).

Thanks for well placed honesty :) 

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I‚Äôd play the shit out of ‚ÄúNA2- Battle for the Mediterranean‚ÄĚ.¬†

 

I‚Äôll be the one in the freshly re-fitted HMS Prince de Neufch√Ętel running South from Port Mah√≥n to the Barbary Coast.

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On 10/8/2018 at 3:08 AM, Licinio Chiavari said:

Looks like I got (repeatly) summoned...

Now that actually did make me laugh out loud.  I had to look around to see if anyone thought I was crazy.  :)

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In my own opinion... the Xebec in game is a perfect pirating ship, and those that use it to good avail deserve a pat on the back from me because I have it and hate it, it is fast but a surprise in the right hands can defeat it, I have used the Requin to good effect, and know that a skilled captain piloting a light frigate can defeat it if the frigate commander knows what he or she is doing. The Requin is a pirate ship through and through and while it is very strong try running it alone against two Hercules that are keeping you at range.

Validating the point that the Requin is a bit OP, it is perhaps the very best ship ingame for pirate work, lots of crew and capacity to run really big carroes is nice. I believe that the first mistake anyone can make when fighting the Le Requin is to close range with it, in a long range duel against a Surprise it is at a serious disadvantage... in my own opinion.

One has to be a bit choosey when it comes to engagements regarding the Le Requin, don't just rush in and fight, I do fear though that if the Le Requin is to be balanced it would require that all ships have infinite chain shot, or the ability to manage their shot to carry much more chain to make it vulnerable through losing its speed... without its speed it has little to offer the game... in my opinion.

But as a pirate ship for taking traders it fills this criteria almost perfectly, and alone against a frigate type ship it is quite strong, this is also a bit historical as the Barbary Corsairs were very feared for the same reason... can we get the Barbary Corsair Nations in game as subfactions  for Pirates?

And one last thing... take away the crazy sailing/ship upgrades and then see what ships people use more often, I feel that many of the upgrades in game are very strong, making the especially skilled almost unstoppable in instances, these upgrades are rewards for the powerful and hard core, and while they give players that play alot some very good rewards for their efforts, those that can only play once in a while will find themselves at their mercy. The upgrades … in my own opinion, should not be valued more than ships and should be easily craftable for all players that have taken the time to learn to craft.

Now back to the Xebec... the Le Requin is a purchased DLC and should be strong, it is very strong, 

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I agree completely. The point you make about the Xebec is the point of the xebec in game.

I do not find it that powerful though. It was when first released but has been seriously nerfed and is now the specialist ship that you describe.

However those that insist on sailing big tanks hate it because it can escape them and they will always whine that it is OP.

The good players know that it can be easily defeated with the right tactics.

It is a pure pirate ship in every sense.

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I bought the DLC Requin as it gave me the chance to, as a beginning player,

level up and have a bit of a countership towards your 1st grade High ranked and very experienced players,or should i say simulists.

Then the wining started and the devs nerfed it as a result,

and sinds most of you already have the pleasure of being so very skilled in your 1st grade PB and L-ocean pack of wolfs like treath too the lower starters,

it is one of the reasons why this game is a overal low populated game, and newcomers give up or just leave this awesome simulator for what it is.

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1 hour ago, Ouwe Knar said:

I bought the DLC Requin as it gave me the chance to, as a beginning player,

level up and have a bit of a countership towards your 1st grade High ranked and very experienced players,or should i say simulists.

Then the wining started and the devs nerfed it as a result,

and sinds most of you already have the pleasure of being so very skilled in your 1st grade PB and L-ocean pack of wolfs like treath too the lower starters,

it is one of the reasons why this game is a overal low populated game, and newcomers give up or just leave this awesome simulator for what it is.

Very well said, Sir.

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It needed a nerf, plain and simple. After some recent fights I believe the requin is in a good place and no need to change it much anymore.

The hercules is also rather powerful and needs adjustment.

Again, I'm all for DLC ships, but not when they are clearly more powerful than any other ship in their class in the game.

Edited by Teutonic
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