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thanatos-tg

Maybe some ships that might see the light of day?

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Galleon Class ships in general
the Concord (better known as the Queen Anne's revenge) - frigate class 44 guns
The Couronne - Flag ship special build, up to 72 guns, speciality is the fore and aft chasers were in a towerlike structure on the sides of the ship
the USS Pennsylvania - first rate ship of the line
the USS Ranger - Sloop of War (sixth rate)
the USS Constellation - 38 gun Frigate
The Fancy - 46 gun Man of war
The Whydah - 28 gun galley
the Royal Fortune - Man of War?
HMS Sapphire - 32 gun fifth rate frigate
HMS Torrington - 32 gun Fifth rate
HMS Pearl - 42 gun fourth rate frigate
HMS Royal Anne Galley - 42 gun fifth rate frigate
HMS Aldborough - 24 gun sixth rate


Just doing a small search that some of the ships from the countries you have in game
but an idea of adding in a bunch of ships is to make crafting more important make it so that each different country can only craft ships of their country and the pirates have to capture or buy the ships if they want it

even go a little farther the ships that are pirate ships start as the nation it is originally from but when captured it gets upgraded/changed to the pirate ship




 

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While I am always on board with adding new ships (The Couronne sounds especially interesting,) there are already a good number of diverse ships. The game is too far along to insist that Danes can only use Danish ships, Dutch- Dutch ships, etc. because of the already large proportion of English and French ships. On top of that, it can be hard to find correct information for some nations because the records of the ships just don't exist. The English, for instance, were exceptional when it came to record keeping of the ships and their parameters. To my knowledge, we just don't have a proportionate amount of schematics for the respective nations for this specific era. 

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Concord/QAR is a 24 or 28 'frigate built' merchant ship (ex-slaver). The supernumerary ordnance is almost certainly small galliard pieces and swivels on the rails and in the tops.

She hasn't been recorded with anything heavier than a 6lb gun so far from the wreck site - at least that I have seen, and IMO that would be heavily promoted if it were so.

 

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More ships is the life blood of the game.

 

Nation specific ships are not workable.

Bring back the regular rattlesnake pleaseeeeee.

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The Pennsylvania is beyond the cutoff date for ships (1820)

I recommend the USS Ohio instead, launched right in time for the cutoff with a crew compliment of 840 men and an armament consisting off two decks of 32 pound guns, and 2 32 pd carronnades, she'd make a great contender in the 1st rate class of ships we have now.

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More ships is a good thing, and I think a number of the ships you listed could find a spot in NA at some point.

But some of the vessels you listed would be redundant with what we already have, or would be out of place in NA:

USS Pennsylvania is too modern for NA. Also I don't think she ever saw combat or was even at sea for more than 7 days before going back into harbor (Wikipedia info so....). Also, talk about an ugly ship...I can barely get past Wasa's hideous paint :lol:                      How about USS Independence (razeed form) instead. She is an 1814 American third rate (meaning double decks of 32pdrs). However, she was too shallow for her armament, putting the lower gundeck too close to the water to be operable under any press of canvas or in a heavy sea. But she was an exceptional sailor, even in her lineship configuration and was razeed in 1836 to become a very fast 54gun 32pd frigate. I realize the 1836 modification puts her out of the timeframe for the game, but she was launched in 1814 (6 years inside the NA window), just not in her best form :).  And we have zero 32pd frigates in NA. I want a 32pd frigate! Balance it between Wasa and Agamemnon/Constitution. Fast in a straight line and reasonably thick, but a terrible turn rate and long acceleration times. Can make HP suffer a bit too for balance.

We've got enough 30-40 gun frigates in 18pd and 12pd configuration (assuming Santa Cecilia/Hermione gets released to the public at some point soon...). Best to fill in other gaps (like a 54 gun SOL, such as HMS Leopard; or another first rate like the 1786 HMS Royal Sovereign).  And devs are working on a 2nd rate, and at least one or two other new 3rd rates, from the polls, IIRC.

Queen Anne's Revenge, Fancy, Whydah, and any other 'pirate ship' has too much fiction surrounding it to wade through, I think. And besides, their purposes are recreated basically with an LGV Refit, Trinco with tiny guns, or Requin/Prince/Niagara.  Its a slippery slope going that route too. We've already got HMS Surprise as some sort of hybrid craft that appears to be based on the O'brian books, the movie, and a bit of the Unite' plans; and L'Hermione that looks to be based off the replica and entirely too high out of the water...

A galleon would be neat, but probably out of place in Naval Action. Too slow and weakly armed and lightly built to compete with the state-of-the-art ships of the mid-late 18th century that most of us sail in the game.

 

1 hour ago, thanatos-tg said:

but an idea of adding in a bunch of ships is to make crafting more important make it so that each different country can only craft ships of their country and the pirates have to capture or buy the ships if they want it

even go a little farther the ships that are pirate ships start as the nation it is originally from but when captured it gets upgraded/changed to the pirate ship

This part I think will never work in NA. If Britain is the only nation that can craft HMS Victory, and I'm a Pirate and I want one, I'll simply move one of my alts to GB, or speak with clanmates that have British alts. When I want a Santisima, I'll use a Spanish account to trade it over. It will simply punish the players who don't have alts or connections to those who do. 

I like the idea of Pirate Refits of certain ships (like Pirate Frigate and LGV Refit and a Pirate Refit of an Indiaman). Perhaps once the ship is captured by a Pirate and he sails it back to port, he has the option to refit it at any time, or keep it as-is.  

 

But beyond all that, I want to see devs fix the same broken mechanics we've had for 6-8 months+ and implement better hostility and PB mechanics that promote PBs. But instead we get a UI that is worse than the one we already have and even more boring crafting mechanics...at least we're getting new PvE missions...but I digress.

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7 minutes ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

Don't worry, it'll be dropped in 3 months, 2030 I mean.

2086 you mean.

 

And no, we don't need more ships, we need the real stuff now that keeps players playing.

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I don't have worries about variety in the field of war ships. They get all the love. But what about merchant ships? As far as I know it's the same bunch of Trader Snows, Brigs, Lynxes, Gros Ventres and Indiamen for years. Alright, Gros Ventre Refit comes to my mind.

But what about Dutch Flutes? The Dutch had the largest merchant fleet ever and were chartered by other nations, including British, for their transportation needs. We could use some sizes of fresh traders up to a mighty East Indiaman which no frigate would dare touch as it has the dimensions of a 3rd rate. And then we miss the full rigged pinnace, a very common cargo ship.

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42 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

I don't have worries about variety in the field of war ships. They get all the love. But what about merchant ships? As far as I know it's the same bunch of Trader Snows, Brigs, Lynxes, Gros Ventres and Indiamen for years. Alright, Gros Ventre Refit comes to my mind.

But what about Dutch Flutes? The Dutch had the largest merchant fleet ever and were chartered by other nations, including British, for their transportation needs. We could use some sizes of fresh traders up to a mighty East Indiaman which no frigate would dare touch as it has the dimensions of a 3rd rate. And then we miss the full rigged pinnace, a very common cargo ship.

yes the. " zevene proven" perhaps

 

Edited by Thonys

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Cut off dates are more flexible then people realize. It more about technology cut off then just a date. IF the USS Pennsylvania were to be added it would have to be a rare drop from 1st rate epics as well as be slow with like a 8kn base speed so LO/WO would go a max of 6kns. Technology wise the ship would work well in the game. Her cannon load out would make her the most powership in the game and if she would have ever seen combat it would have been a battleship of the time. The American way BIG SHIP BIG GUNS.  The only reason the "cutoff" is to insure people didn't try to push steam ships in the game because they launched closed to the cut off date. Personally I feel the ship will eventually get added once they finish the game and work out all the bugs in the mechanics. If not the ship would break current mechanics. 

So instead of pushing for the ship now lets keep pushing for the game to fix the broken systems before we go an add ships they will end up breaking the already destroyed ship balancing. 

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4 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

The Pennsylvania is beyond the cutoff date for ships (1820)

I recommend the USS Ohio instead, launched right in time for the cutoff with a crew compliment of 840 men and an armament consisting off two decks of 32 pound guns, and 2 32 pd carronnades, she'd make a great contender in the 1st rate class of ships we have now.

That ship has been proposed but won't come in for a simple reason the too late in service and lying up in ordinary aka in reserve is not good enough since when they are in those states they tend to have small guns from reserve or no guns at all including proper ballasting and such. 

Yes they are made all on the 1815 mark but they all went in service way beyond the timeline otherwise we could better get in some moniters and armored ships and such and be done

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10 hours ago, thanatos-tg said:

Galleon Class ships in general
the Concord (better known as the Queen Anne's revenge) - frigate class 44 guns
The Couronne - Flag ship special build, up to 72 guns, speciality is the fore and aft chasers were in a towerlike structure on the sides of the ship
the USS Pennsylvania - first rate ship of the line
the USS Ranger - Sloop of War (sixth rate)
the USS Constellation - 38 gun Frigate
The Fancy - 46 gun Man of war
The Whydah - 28 gun galley
the Royal Fortune - Man of War?
HMS Sapphire - 32 gun fifth rate frigate
HMS Torrington - 32 gun Fifth rate
HMS Pearl - 42 gun fourth rate frigate
HMS Royal Anne Galley - 42 gun fifth rate frigate
HMS Aldborough - 24 gun sixth rate




 

The Shipyard is the place for discussing individual ships in detail: Come on down, it could use some discussion to liven the place up a bit. :) 

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3 hours ago, Arvenski said:

The Shipyard is the place for discussing individual ships in detail: Come on down, it could use some discussion to liven the place up a bit. :) 

Two possible subjects :

- What would be your one and only favorite ship you'd like to have implemented ?

- Are there major gap(s) in terms of broadside weight in game  ?

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6 hours ago, thanatos-tg said:

Galleon Class ships in general
the Concord (better known as the Queen Anne's revenge) - frigate class 44 guns
The Couronne - Flag ship special build, up to 72 guns, speciality is the fore and aft chasers were in a towerlike structure on the sides of the ship
the USS Pennsylvania - first rate ship of the line
the USS Ranger - Sloop of War (sixth rate)
the USS Constellation - 38 gun Frigate
The Fancy - 46 gun Man of war
The Whydah - 28 gun galley
the Royal Fortune - Man of War?
HMS Sapphire - 32 gun fifth rate frigate
HMS Torrington - 32 gun Fifth rate
HMS Pearl - 42 gun fourth rate frigate
HMS Royal Anne Galley - 42 gun fifth rate frigate
HMS Aldborough - 24 gun sixth rate


Just doing a small search that some of the ships from the countries you have in game
but an idea of adding in a bunch of ships is to make crafting more important make it so that each different country can only craft ships of their country and the pirates have to capture or buy the ships if they want it

even go a little farther the ships that are pirate ships start as the nation it is originally from but when captured it gets upgraded/changed to the pirate ship




 

For some reason is ee a quite a lot of American or Brittish ships, why not some 68 gun Dutch merchantman or a very good 64 Venetian ships 

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20 hours ago, thanatos-tg said:

the USS Pennsylvania - first rate ship of the line
the USS Ranger - Sloop of War (sixth rate)
the USS Constellation - 38 gun Frigate

USS Pennsylvania 1821-37 -  doesn't fit for the game period. It's too modern ship balancing between sails and steam engines era. Also USS Delaware and USS North Caroline (1824) was made in this period of time.

USS Franklin (1815) - fits better in this period

USS Constellation - the one of the original six frigates of the United States Navy. It is so called sister ship of USS Constitution.

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3 hours ago, cgmax said:

USS Pennsylvania 1821-37 -  doesn't fit for the game period. It's too modern ship balancing between sails and steam engines era. Also USS Delaware and USS North Caroline (1824) was made in this period of time.

USS Franklin (1815) - fits better in this period

USS Constellation - the one of the original six frigates of the United States Navy. It is so called sister ship of USS Constitution.

Correct but because of the expense involved in the construction of the Humpheries 44 gun design, the USS Constellation, Chesapeake and Congress were all built as lighter, smaller 38 gun frigates. So the sister ships of the USS Constitution were the USS United States and the USS President.   

There is a conspicuous absence of Dutch ships in the game though. IMO before thinking about a US SoL let's have some Dutch ships, whether a warship or a flute!

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1 hour ago, DeRuyter said:

There is a conspicuous absence of Dutch ships in the game though. IMO before thinking about a US SoL let's have some Dutch ships, whether a warship or a flute!

First dutch addition to come, soon : a Wreker class (1798, 80 guns), right ? 🙂

Edited by LeBoiteux
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1 hour ago, DeRuyter said:

Correct but because of the expense involved in the construction of the Humpheries 44 gun design, the USS Constellation, Chesapeake and Congress were all built as lighter, smaller 38 gun frigates. So the sister ships of the USS Constitution were the USS United States and the USS President.   

There is a conspicuous absence of Dutch ships in the game though. IMO before thinking about a US SoL let's have some Dutch ships, whether a warship or a flute!

As I noted in another thread, the 'pocket' US heavy frigates are closer in size and power to the Leda class (as represented in game by the Trincomalee) than to the Consitution or the other two heavy Frigates. They have 18lb guns, and are of similar length and beam to the RN 18lb frigate classes, while the 24lb Constitution is 20 feet longer and as broad in proportion.

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Some of you guys are acting like there's a dichotomy between new ship models and more generalized content. The art team can't make you a new economy, people. I could see the argument that there's a law of diminishing returns with ship variety, but it certainly won't make the game worse, unless the hypothetical new ships are implemented poorly.
New ships take time and resources, yes, but not all man-hours are interchangeable.

As to the OP, as much as I love the idea of asymmetrical balance, and unique pirate mechanics in particular, I think heavily restricting what each nation can build would only further break the game, at least at this stage.

You would need far more ships, an equal amount of each type for each nation, a much larger group of active players to ensure that everything is being built and sailed in sufficient quantities, and even then, it would still probably piss off a lot of players.

I'll leave it to others to argue about time frame or the over-representation of American frigates.

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18 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

First dutch addition to come, soon : a Wreker class (1798, 80 guns), right ? 🙂

Yeah, she'll be interesting to see. The Danish Christian VII, too.

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Speaking of Sol (and I usually don't 😉), some day I'd really like to see in game French La Ville de Paris (1764, 90 then 104 guns), the one that participated in the American Revolutionary War (Chesapeake...). If I ain't mistaken, the plans of her initial version (with 90 guns) are at the Archives of the French Navy at Vincennes, including a drawing of her ornament of stern and bow.

Edited by LeBoiteux

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