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TESTBED - Port User Interface Feedback.

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issue is to be a money sink it has to be relatively expensive.

Edited by RKY

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@admin

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why cant i click outside the tag window..

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43 minutes ago, Old Crusty said:

If you don’t see the statement I quoted you as saying isn’t demeaning and insulting you have no business being in customer service 

I don't know what quote you're referring to, as I went back a few pages without seeing it.  It's irrelevant, however.  You'll find things easier to process when you realize two things:

1.  Admin is not in customer service.  He is a developer.  This is a work space, not a dolled up feel-good zone.

2.  English is not everyone's first language.  Some things come off unintentionally harsh, or without the nuance that a native speaker might be used to.

English is, however, my first language.  This is a work space.  That is the final word on the matter.

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2 hours ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Chill dude^^

If transport fee is 1 gold on live will it kill the game? Nope cuz its irrelevant. We dont know how much doubloons you get from anything so how can you judge the impact already?

 

On the other hand I agree that the info we are getting about upcoming changes is poorly handled, it just opens up for a lot of useless discussions

I wish we could get information on how it'll work instead of just waiting until the main server gets patched. Until we get the information that for some reason isn't being told, we will continue to have wild accusations about it.

Erasing materials? I like it

New ui? I like it

Teleport fee? Sucks

Econ changes? Good

So when is this patch coming now?

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21 hours ago, Old Crusty said:

If you don’t see the statement I quoted you as saying isn’t demeaning and insulting you have no business being in customer service 

We do not see that statement as such. This is a development discussions forum - for discussions and expression of happiness or dissent; something like a friendly conversation at a poker table with fellow sailors (like in texas in 1830 where everybody has a gun which helps to avoid excessive statements).  

If you only want neutral statements in form of carefully crafted news and patchnotes there is Steam forum. To talk to people you have to accept that people not always pick the best words when they talk.

Thus direct statements like - this feature sucks is bad, or this feedback is irrelevant are acceptable between equals.  We do not see anything demeaning or insulting in that statement we said, specifically we do not see where we insulted you as a person. Please don't look for insults where they dont exist. But if we do insult you as a person let us know and demand respect (rule n1 of this forum).


Now lets get back on topic of interface feedback.
 

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Not sure if that is related to user interface, but I have encountered a strange issue today.

I went in Indiaman to Barahona to buy some LO. On my way there, I captured a Traders Brig and added it to the fleet. I went to Barahona, created an outpost there, bought LO (~2000) and put it into Indiaman's hold.

Then I went to Azua to buy some WO. I also bought some mahogany logs, that were in the shop.

Here are my shop logs (first two from Barahona, last 3 from Azua):

image.png.4698896db4c8401cc50f02dc67490132.png

Since it wouldn't all fit into Indiaman's hold,  I split it between Indiaman and Trader's Brig. Now - I remember struggling with the UI for a moment. I will describe it here as I'm not sure how much it has contributed to the issue I noticed on my way back.

I had a fleet window open (wanted to repair ships after the battle), and the brig's hold window was above it to the left.

The Warehouse hold was on the right not obscured by anything. When I picked up WO from warehouse trying to drag and drop it onto the Brig's hold, the Fleet window became active while I was dragging the item above it and went on top of the Brig's hold leaving just the title of that window visible. I have dropped the item on that title anyway, then I think, I made the window active, moved it to the right so that it was close to the warehouse window, and tried to move the item again, but there was something wrong with it (don't exactly remember what). Anyway, I moved the other item I had in warehouse onto the brig hold and noticed that the item which I dropped in the beginning (the one dropped onto the window title) is actually in the hold (so the drop worked).

Next, I left Azua. With the whole fleet (I didn't have outpost built in Azua).

Half way into the trip back, I noticed, that I'm not traveling on indiaman, but on Trader's brig. I thought that I must have switched the ships while in Azua doing the whole repair/cargo move stuff. So I opened the fleet window to confirm that and I noticed that instead of an Indiaman and a Traders Brig, I have two trader brigs with exactly the same hold contents in the fleet. It's like that Indiaman I had, was substituted by a copy of the Traders Brig and its cargo.

 

Also, I couldn't open hold of the other trader brig (I can only open one at a time - I assume I should be able to open both if everything was working properly) 

image.thumb.png.73544ee4c1337780302c0456b0c92415.png

I reached the KPR and indeed, I have two identical Trader Brigs in fleet instead of an Indiaman and a Trader Brig. What is interesting - I can't select just one of them. When I select one, the other one selects as well. It seems like the game can't distinguish them from each other.

image.thumb.png.1c6f98cdff563bfbf7b0885f589bfe82.png

UPDATE:

I then right-clicked the ships and selected "Set as main". One of the brigs disappeared, and the second one remained with the "Fleet" status (i had no ship with "Main" status at that moment).

Then, I selected that Brig again, and used "Set as main" option. Now, it changed the status to "Main" and all seems to be well, despite the fact that I'm one Indiaman and its cargo short.

 

Edited by DaRho
Corrected typos + the second port was Azua not Bani.

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UPDATE 2 (new post as the screenshot wouldn't fit into the other post due to size limit).

I have noticed that not all is right as I have a strange ship in my docks in KPR now: a 5th/4th rate violet Victory with an Ingermanland paint and a lot of swinging bed and elevaing screw refits :)

23fOLYF.jpg

 

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On 10/25/2018 at 3:57 PM, TiM Maas said:

20181025_235609.jpg

Look at all those closed gun ports! Actually like to see closed ports in port AND open world with an animation of ports opening and guns squeaking into position at the beginning of the Battle Instance.

 

As for UI in testbed, a suggestion; Navy Window and Buildings Window default to "All". Wouldn't it be more efficient for the player to default to the port we're currently in? Give me the option to select "All" but normally I only wish to view the current ships/buildings in that specific port.

The warehouse looks great but the refresh is atrocious. When you have a warehouse full of icons and attempt to move things around, I end up waiting one or more seconds between moves while the game redraws all the icons. I hope this is being worked on. I feel like I'm back in the late 1990's watching a high res image draw in on my dial-up modem.

 

LOVE the weather effect in port!!! Thank guys. When I saw that last night I couldn't tell I was in port or OW.  Made me happy.

Edited by ToeTag

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12 minutes ago, ToeTag said:

Look at all those closed gun ports! Actually like to see closed ports in port AND open world with an animation of ports opening and guns squeaking into position at the beginning of the Battle Instance.

Been done.   But are you willing to deal with ~20 fps?...   There's your trade-off....

 

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51 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Been done.   But are you willing to deal with ~20 fps?...   There's your trade-off....

 

Aside from the frames issue, historically I'm sure they didn't travel the open seas with guns out getting salt water all over them. Also, I believe it was disrespectful pulling into port with guns drawn.

Having ports closed in port would also solve the disillusion of seeing low decks loaded with guns but upper decks empty.  Especially if the ship has been disarmed in ship settings.

 

Speaking of ports.... had an issue twice last night. Sailed from KPR and to Pedro Cay. Once in Pedro Cay's port I saw KPR's port screen. Had to exit the port and come back in for the proper port screen to refresh. Also happened sailing from Little Cayman to George Town. Got into GT and had LC's port screen. Again exited into OW and back into port for it to show the correct port screen.  Made an F11 report on the first instance. Seems when it happens, it's the previous port visited that stays in view.

Edited by ToeTag

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56 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Been done.   But are you willing to deal with ~20 fps?...   There's your trade-off....

 

If a little animation of guns being pushed out at the start of a battle causes the game to chug to 20fps or lower, then three things are happening. A: You're computer is actually a potato. B: the coding for such an animation is extremely bloated and very poorly done as to destroy the game's optimization, or C : all of the above.

 

Seriously, its 2018 people. Nearly 2019. A little animation like that, if properly done, should NOT be causing such massive slow downs. If it does, then there is something VERY wrong, and someone messed up somewhere very badly.

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11 minutes ago, kitsunelegend said:

If a little animation of guns being pushed out at the start of a battle causes the game to chug to 20fps or lower, then three things are happening. A: You're computer is actually a potato. B: the coding for such an animation is extremely bloated and very poorly done as to destroy the game's optimization, or C : all of the above.

We had recoil and we even had cloth sails in early stages - they work great for 1-5 ships in the battle. The problem with recoil is drawcalls and the requirement to allow 50 first rates be present in one instance (goal was replication of trafalgar). We do not discount the possibility to have the duke of kent some time in the future, but even without duke of kent the amount of possible guns recoiling is 7000 guns. To look good they must recoil separately creating lots of drawcalls. Batched recoil (all guns move at the same time looks worse than no recoil at all). 

Short answer - recoil for 7000 guns was too taxing when we made the decision - world improved a little bit but not so much to dedicate programming time to add recoils. 

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Wasn't expecting recoils of every gun throughout the battle (cool thought though), just having gun ports swing open and cannons rolling into position at the start of the battle instance for the player's fleet.

Edited by ToeTag
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2 hours ago, admin said:

We had recoil and we even had cloth sails in early stages - they work great for 1-5 ships in the battle. The problem with recoil is drawcalls and the requirement to allow 50 first rates be present in one instance (goal was replication of trafalgar). We do not discount the possibility to have the duke of kent some time in the future, but even without duke of kent the amount of possible guns recoiling is 7000 guns. To look good they must recoil separately creating lots of drawcalls. Batched recoil (all guns move at the same time looks worse than no recoil at all). 

Short answer - recoil for 7000 guns was too taxing when we made the decision - world improved a little bit but not so much to dedicate programming time to add recoils. 

what about if only the game shows gun recoiling for the player? Only one ship shouldnt hurt so much.

Edited by Intrepido
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41 minutes ago, kitsunelegend said:

If a little animation of guns being pushed out at the start of a battle causes the game to chug to 20fps or lower, then three things are happening. A: You're computer is actually a potato. B: the coding for such an animation is extremely bloated and very poorly done as to destroy the game's optimization, or C : all of the above.

 

Seriously, its 2018 people. Nearly 2019. A little animation like that, if properly done, should NOT be causing such massive slow downs. If it does, then there is something VERY wrong, and someone messed up somewhere very badly.

or D: (see Admin's explanation)....  

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12 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

what about if only the game shows gun recoiling for the player? Only one ships shouldnt hurt so much.

Once little concern.
Would not you have to have two ships in the RAM instead of one - one for your ship with recoil + the same ship without recoil for others. Making it even worse. How would you handle this?

 

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28 minutes ago, ToeTag said:

Wasn't expecting recoils of every gun throughout the battle (cool thought though), just having gun ports swing open and cannons rolling into position at the start of the battle instance for the player's fleet.

if it moves it can recoil.  it does not matter if it is at the start or during the battle..
have not you noticed fixed guns for all first rates? Thats the reason - even if the gun is stationary it creates a draw call. 

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49 minutes ago, kitsunelegend said:

If a little animation of guns being pushed out at the start of a battle causes the game to chug to 20fps or lower, then three things are happening. A: You're computer is actually a potato. B: the coding for such an animation is extremely bloated and very poorly done as to destroy the game's optimization, or C : all of the above.

 

Seriously, its 2018 people. Nearly 2019. A little animation like that, if properly done, should NOT be causing such massive slow downs. If it does, then there is something VERY wrong, and someone messed up somewhere very badly.

I'm going to take it you never been in a 25 vs 25 first rate port battle (I so miss them and I don't even like the big ships).   Just being in that battle with that many ships you take a big FPS hit, than you have every one and thier mother firing cannons.  Even top in machines can take a good 20-40 FPS hit during those battles.  I know I use to run around 40-60 FPS, but once a port battle started with those ships it would drop down to 20-30 FPS and that is just from all the cannon balls flying around.  Imagine if you add more like Admin posted to that?  Nope I'll stick with not watching my cannons recoil...if I'm in a big battle any way my eyes are on the other players not what my men are doing or the cannons on the ship.

4 minutes ago, admin said:

Once little concern.
Would not you have to have two ships in the RAM instead of one - one for your ship with recoil + the same ship without recoil for others. Making it even worse. How would you handle this?

 

While we are on this topic about some things like recoil.  The only thing that has always bother me is why we don't have a extra model of the ship in OW with the dang cannon hatches closed on ships.  If your in OW the model should have them closed.  Maybe one day we can get a ship modeler to go through and add this to the OW model of all the ships, to have the silly hatches closed while on the OW.

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2 hours ago, admin said:

Once little concern.
Would not you have to have two ships in the RAM instead of one - one for your ship with recoil + the same ship without recoil for others. Making it even worse. How would you handle this?

 

It will be worse than now, but how much fps are we talking about? Does this decrease on fps compensates the inmersion and nice animation of ship recoil will bring to the game?

The game has really nice models but it also needs more wow moments and better animations.

Edited by Intrepido
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On 10/25/2018 at 8:11 PM, DaRho said:

UPDATE 2 (new post as the screenshot wouldn't fit into the other post due to size limit).

I have noticed that not all is right as I have a strange ship in my docks in KPR now: a 5th/4th rate violet Victory with an Ingermanland paint and a lot of swinging bed and elevaing screw refits :)

23fOLYF.jpg

 

Thank you, Captain

Problem found and fixed.

Best Regards

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On 10/29/2018 at 11:40 AM, admin said:

We had recoil and we even had cloth sails in early stages - they work great for 1-5 ships in the battle. The problem with recoil is drawcalls and the requirement to allow 50 first rates be present in one instance (goal was replication of trafalgar). We do not discount the possibility to have the duke of kent some time in the future, but even without duke of kent the amount of possible guns recoiling is 7000 guns. To look good they must recoil separately creating lots of drawcalls. Batched recoil (all guns move at the same time looks worse than no recoil at all). 

Short answer - recoil for 7000 guns was too taxing when we made the decision - world improved a little bit but not so much to dedicate programming time to add recoils. 

I do not believe it @admin

Here is how to do it.

Add recoil guns animation only when in 'On board mode' Zoomed in (aiming mode) can look from side to side, but limited to 180 degree arc. Animate guns only inside 180 degree arc, boom Done. You do not see other ships guns recoil because you are locked in On board/aim camera. Smoke takes care of enemy ship animation -it's not needed. 

Add far zoom for ship and completely remove gun and sailors on ships when in 'zoom all the way out" mode. Your problem is your camera distance. 

Have 3 camera modes

1. On board - Animate guns , but control view point and animation at 180 degree arc. Do not animate anything else outside the arc.

2. Default what we have now, no animation. Medium zoom. 

3. Zoom out far enough to disable animations and moving sailors on board + reduce on board details. Make them small enough that they no longer needed. 

Hope I solved the long impossible animation problem.

Example of "far" zoom, you do not need sailors and gun animations, details at this range. 

5.0.jpg

 

Edited by Wind

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