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Naval insurance comes to the Caribbean


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2 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

To be fair that's the situation we have atm.. We might lose the ship but everything can be replaced with no difficulty..

nope. you have to replace, yes it is easy or not...but you must take another ship, grab resources, come back, craft, re-arm and go out of port....with insurance you can take same ship just sitting in port...no more resources,trading, crafting...just rine and repeat

 

boring

3 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

some people just want to shoot guns and see the smoke

but if ship gets captured and delivered to admiralty the insurance doesn't cover.

 

but if you don't sink you don't get PVP mark...

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Question:

- do the player has to pay the insurance ?

Scenario:

- player A crafts ship. Is it already insured or needs to "tick" the insurance option and pay it ?

Scenario 2:

- player B captures player A ship, takes it to port. Does insurance of player A ship benefit player B now every time he sails said ship or must he pay insurance 

 

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14 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

nope. you have to replace, yes it is easy or not...but you must take another ship, grab resources, come back, craft, re-arm and go out of port....with insurance you can take same ship just sitting in port...no more resources,trading, crafting...just rine and repeat

 

boring

but if you don't sink you don't get PVP mark...

Plus they won't get a new ship back, just to make it clear from reading everything carefully again posted ... damn reading all again ...

They get the insurance value in cash/resources, not a brand NEW ship. They have to build a new one or ask their favourite crafter.

I hope i'm not wrong on this...

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1 hour ago, Lars Kjaer said:

True there is no substitute for experience, but you can't deny that 5/5 ships allow a player to game the metas far more than a grey 0/5 ship does. Atm it has nothing to do with skill - atleast that's my hypothesis.. If you ask the casual player they refer to experiences where they hit masts as much as the opponent but it's their mast that falls and not the opponents. The reason is simple enough - Elite french rig refit, coupled with french gunnery sergent.. Add to that northern master carpenters, bow figure rattlesnake and just a carta refit for the fun of it and one player - the socalled "hardcore" player, has a distinct and tangible experience and hardware advantage over the opponent effectually negating any skill difference real or perceived between the players.. The problem is that the experienced PvP'er is the one with the best ship, the best upgrades, the best books and will win any fight without breaking a real sweat.

This illustrates the conflict between sandbox needs and competitive play.

This was sorted in Legends and could easily be done in OW too. When admin announced the new anti-stacking mod changes people started screaming about "cookie cutter ships". They have this expectation of being able to grind for terrible advantages and they place little value on competitive balance. They hide behind buzzwords like "experience", "customization" or "diversity", but if you follow the money, so to speak, it's all about wanting to beat the other guy with a great big ugly stick.

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9 hours ago, z4ys said:

What about modules? In most cases they exceed the buy price of the ship by millions.

Tbh personally I never felt sorry for the ship only for the lost modules.

The other thing is that players always sell ships overpriced. Ships that are worth 100k of materials are sold for 500k. Sure it's kind of our mistake but I fail to see how this small pocket money will change the situation that captains rather fight than run.

 

Pls tell me what are the benefits of the insurance? Will I have to pay the insurance price on top of the buy price because merchants think they can make even more profit because it's actual free money for me?

Well coupled with easier crafting people will craft more so merchants will have too be competitive so lower price becouse why would i pay 500k for stock ship if i can craft her for only 100k plus insurance may cover mat prices

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20 hours ago, admin said:

Insurance at base price (ship material cost + small %) will be automatically paid out if you ship sinks in a battle (to a player or to an NPC vessel). 
Insurance will only be provided for the ships crafted by the players (not for the admiralty ships or imported vessels, which are not covered by policies).

It's a bit odd when described as insurance.  It has no actuarial association to the risk levels of the insured.

But when thought of as part of an economic restructure it makes more sense

18 hours ago, admin said:

Automatic crafted ship insurance is not only about the money but about the reducing the loss and changing the reward system, which is one of the goals for the insurance.

 

Quote

So the obvious benefits are

  1. Insurance allows to restructure rewards to the appropriate historical levels which removes the inflationary pressures, and reduces recovery loss, loss is less painful because you are not forced to regrind. 
  2. Gear fear is lowered and cost of loss is minimal (especially if Player 1 crafts the ships). Grind is not forced on those who dont want to pve but cannot yet win consistently.
  3. Crafted ships start to matter more.

As with everything the devil is in the details.  It might need to be just material costs to discourage building to burn.  There are definite trade-offs to be balanced.  But as concerning the player-to-player economy, if #2 and #3 result in the sale of more crafted ships that is a very good thing.

One thing WILL happen is that the insured value will tell the buyer what the ship actually cost to build -- which is a bit difficult to sort out without a fair bit of math.

I am very interested to see what else this is packaged with.

Edited by John Jacob Astor
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@admin What will become of the basic cutter? The biggest reason we have it is because players, namely new players with 0 assets need a ship to fall back on in the worse case scenario, but with insurance you can allow a minimum payout, and with that ports can be supplied with regular cutters, maybe even trade cutters for 1000-3000 gold. Then we would no longer have the problem of BCers having special ROE, unlimited repairs, being of no value pvp mark or capture wise and the ability to troll without respite.

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21 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Side point.  I’m not familiar with Lloyd’s ever insuring a Royal Navy vessel, however...  I may be wrong, but I don’t think so.  

Kind of immaterial to game play, but just kinda making discussion. 🙂

my point was not really even lloyds insuring the royal navy ... just that all insurance started with the insuring of ships ...a trader would more than likely be insured by lloyds .. if you want to get picky the royal navy didnt require its captains in this period to finance the building of their own ships as we do in game ... however before you get picky again .. many captains used their own money improve their ships and buy extra stores gunpowder over and above that issued

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So is anyone paying for the insurance, or is it a gold print? 

If its printing gold it wouldnt really do anything. If you add another gold source you would need to adjust others, ergo ships would need to become accordingly more expensive to produce. To combine insurance and economy you somehow need make the guy never loosing ships pay for the players loosing more often. 

In general how is the material cost determined, that depends on the current labour value, that depends on current inflation? Or is it the resource cost?

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34 minutes ago, Fargo said:

So is anyone paying for the insurance, or is it a gold print? 

If its printing gold it wouldnt really do anything. If you add another gold source you would need to adjust others, ergo ships would need to become accordingly more expensive to produce. To combine insurance and economy you somehow need make the guy never loosing ships pay for the players loosing more often. 

In general how is the material cost determined, that depends on the current labour value, that depends on current inflation? Or is it the resource cost?

I'm assuming it's just like pirates of the burning seas insurance. Built right into the cost of the ship. In that game, when you clicked on the ship it stated it's insurance value and people were loathe to pay an inflated value over the insurance cost. That ended up with ships priced at a modest 10 percent profit margin or so, not the millions and millions more that you see in this game. In potbs, your insurance usually covered about 80 percent of ships and mods. And yes, even the mods had an insurance value which also kept them from being used to rip people off like we see in this game. Insurance pretty much prevented price gouging. 

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IMHO. The disputable and strange thing. May be make naval insurance available for beginners only (while reach a M&C/Post c/rear adm)? Calculate the amount of insurance by arithmetic/geometric progression for players who sinks 10 times in a row? Paying the final cost at the end of the day within reasonable limits. I think upcoming various and exciting PvE content will help with money.

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2 minutes ago, Thomas Boyle said:

IMHO. The disputable and strange thing. May be make naval insurance available for beginners only (while reach a M&C/Post c/rear adm)? Calculate the amount of insurance by arithmetic/geometric progression for players who sinks 10 times in a row? Paying the final cost at the end of the day within reasonable limits. I think upcoming various and exciting PvE content will help with money.

Let it be available to all.  Its not mandatory is it?  I probably wouldn't bother with insurance on a crafted ship personally, but people who have low cash flow would.  Now if I could insure mods....

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The main thing with this game is that the developers decided to link shipbuilding and mod construction to RVR. This was a huge mistake and has led to bottlenecks and one or two factions gobbling up all the resources and making them unavailable except at ridiculously high prices. Basically, the developers screwed their whole economy in an attempt to force people to RVR. All it's done is pretty much exclude newer players from better quality equipment. 

Instead of this, they should have given another compelling reason to rvr, say production bonuses or something tied to number of ports controlled. 

Like ive said before, insurance is a band aid attempt to correct a much bigger flaw in this game. 

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16 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Let it be available to all.  Its not mandatory is it?  I probably wouldn't bother with insurance on a crafted ship personally, but people who have low cash flow would.  Now if I could insure mods.... 

Yeah no need naval insurance, i need insurance of my expensive istalled mods. Depending on dynamic changing of market prices. For example, copper 1.6m / navy hull 900k / bovenwinds 450k.

But it can bring some exploits...

Edited by Thomas Boyle
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1 hour ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Inflation is human made. The resources NPC prices are true value.

well new currency,easier crafting, new rewards and ship insurance will lead to chaos with prices at beginning.

@admin if your ship is captured and sinked in battle will you get insurance or not becouse around 40% of battles end like this?

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This is great and will help new players in particular, as is intended.

If you need help replacing mods, and expensive ships as a vet then maybe you should look at how you are playing the game.🤠🤡

Thanks @admin a step in the right direction and very welcome.🤗

Now what about pvp/gold for all participants of a battle regardless of loss or victory ??🤔

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