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13 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Honestly the Constitution is a frigate, she sailed alone... and she was espected to sail alone. The same goes with plenty 74guns.
In real, a lone 74guns was really safe... aside if caught by another, or more, 74guns: no frigate would dare targeting her.

And ingame we have and had plenty successful (indeed supermodded) lone raiders on Ingermanlands or Wappens.

True better players cope ok,  i remember Raxius killing 9 dutch in his vic who tried to nail him way back lol. 

When CABAL were dutch and raiding out of great corn and was fast build/board meta.

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7 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Honestly the Constitution is a frigate, she sailed alone... and she was espected to sail alone. The same goes with plenty 74guns.
In real, a lone 74guns was really safe... aside if caught by another, or more, 74guns: no frigate would dare targeting her.

And ingame we have and had plenty successful (indeed supermodded) lone raiders on Ingermanlands or Wappens.

Honestly, the "problem" with hugging is that players are inexperienced and feel like they should be invincible based on ship size alone, and that intersects with some mechanical issues in the game that change the dynamics of the engagements in favor of smaller, more skilled ships/captains.  The primary one being that in real life you have to close distance under fire. A smaller, less capable ship would never get inside the firing arc of a 74, absent a ruse or some other trickeration, without being mauled.  While in our game, you can tag to a distance that you start in battle well within a distance and at an angle if the tag is skilled that makes getting in to hug possible.

So given that, should we impose some silly "rubbing" damage, boarding distance/speed changes, etc. all just to counter hugging at the expense of enforcing a single play style over others?  I think not. Instead, we should be encouraging players to get better in their ships of choice, play with others (this is a multiplayer online game after all, historical accuracy aside loners should have a rough time of it if they're not totally geared for lone hunter status), and tweak the mechanics to potentially make that closing distance more deadly.

The thing that's completely laughable about most of the whingers asking for fixes like muskets, etc. is that they don't even bother running marines on their 1-3rd rates because they don't expect to board... (i.e. they're out sinking AI). Who do they think will be raining musket fire down on the decks of these hugging ships anyway?! :P 

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I feel very torn on this topic.  The reality monster in me screams that no 5th rate can survive within the gun arcs of an SOL.  Yet I hugged a Connie (I'm working my way up) with my Herc the other night and it was fun.  He should not have been out alone in a ship that he was new to.  I actually followed him from inside his green zone to the outside then tagged.  Is it the fault of a poor mechanic that he lost his ship? 

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Just now, Angus MacDuff said:

I feel very torn on this topic.  The reality monster in me screams that no 5th rate can survive within the gun arcs of an SOL.  Yet I hugged a Connie (I'm working my way up) with my Herc the other night and it was fun.  He should not have been out alone in a ship that he was new to.  I actually followed him from inside his green zone to the outside then tagged.  Is it the fault of a poor mechanic that he lost his ship? 

Was it more the effect of unrealistic expectations of in game realism - broadside weight would smash your "corvette" or realistic mistakes done by the victim captain that allowed you to do it ?

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Just now, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Was it more of unrealistic expectations or realistic mistakes done by the victim captain ?

Both, don't you think?  You can't expect to sail solo in a big ship that you're not experienced with and be immune to attack.  And he made a bunch of mistakes, starting with sailing out of his green zone with me clearly in sight and ending with staying at full sails down wind the whole time I was in contact.

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Just now, Angus MacDuff said:

Both, don't you think?  You can't expect to sail solo in a big ship that you're not experienced with and be immune to attack.  And he made a bunch of mistakes, starting with sailing out of his green zone with me clearly in sight and ending with staying at full sails down wind the whole time I was in contact.

I will agree both.

Spawning distance should be equal to "regulations" warning shot.

Not on top of the target.

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5 hours ago, AeRoTR said:

May be contact, aside from light damage also gives leaks to lighter ship? Execisive hugging = too many leaks? + some hull damage.

I'm putting together a detailed post on this concept as we speak...  Will make a thread after I get home from work.

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11 minutes ago, Hethwill the Harmless said:

Was it more the effect of unrealistic expectations of in game realism - broadside weight would smash your "corvette" or realistic mistakes done by the victim captain that allowed you to do it ?

The problem is broadside weight. A 42pd (long) does 60dmg vs. 55 of a 24pd and vs. 43 of a 9pd (!!!)
Granted muzzle speed in the same type (long, medium, carronade) should be the same (approximately) the damage, being mainly kinetic (so related to mass with similar speed), should scale WAY higher with higher calibers. Something like 80 - 50 - 30 for 42 - 24 - 9pds.
This way a 1st rate would have more or less 2 times today dmg output... sinking a frigate in 2 broadsides; and a 3rd rated in 3-4.

Couple game values with ridiculous angling and thickness (even on frigates - Cartagena anyone?) you end where we are.

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@admin can we take out DD from perks and make it a game default mechanic? What is the necessity of DD perk as it's current form? 

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Just now, AeRoTR said:

What is the necessity of DD perk as it's current form? 

Must have more crew than the enemy ship.

If you don't and the enemy has DD you cannot initiate boarding.

Example - your Bellona won't be able to rageboard my Pavel without proper approach to kill crew beforehand.

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2 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I feel very torn on this topic.  The reality monster in me screams that no 5th rate can survive within the gun arcs of an SOL.  Yet I hugged a Connie (I'm working my way up) with my Herc the other night and it was fun.  He should not have been out alone in a ship that he was new to.  I actually followed him from inside his green zone to the outside then tagged.  Is it the fault of a poor mechanic that he lost his ship? 

But lets say you get under his guns and start "hugging."

It's fun for the herc or any ship who can get under the guns, but now the opposing ship does what...? 

Realistically i as a bigger ship should be able to combat you somehow. My guns may not be able to hit you, but my crew should still be able to do something, whether that is shoot at you, or board you, or some type of mechanic to get you away from my ship.

If we are the same skill level and you are able to hug my ship, that's it - I literally can't wiggle you off since any attempt i take, you will be able to react faster and adjust your course to continue staying under my guns.

I totally understand not sailing alone in a big ship, but as it currently stands, There is no way I can wiggle you away without doing something incredibly cheesy, which you would just be able to act faster than me.

Edited by Teutonic
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The issue with hugging is simple, small ships are able to deflect too much damage on approach, period. Let 1 42pd ball sink that 5/6/7th rate and there won't be any hugging :)

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2 minutes ago, Le Raf Boom said:

The issue with hugging is simple, small ships are able to deflect too much damage on approach, period. Let 1 42pd ball sink that 5/6/7th rate and there won't be any hugging :)

That's also a bit extreme, but I do agree that in some cases the thickness meta plays a part in the issue.

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23 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

But lets say you get under his guns and start "hugging."

It's fun for the herc or any ship who can get under the guns, but now the opposing ship does what...? 

Realistically i as a bigger ship should be able to combat you somehow. My guns may not be able to hit you, but my crew should still be able to do something, whether that is shoot at you, or board you, or some type of mechanic to get you away from my ship.

If we are the same skill level and you are able to hug my ship, that's it - I literally can't wiggle you off since any attempt i take, you will be able to react faster and adjust your course to continue staying under my guns.

I totally understand not sailing alone in a big ship, but as it currently stands, There is no way I can wiggle you away without doing something incredibly cheesy, which you would just be able to act faster than me.

Get below 3.5 knots.  I'm dead

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i have just informed the admin of the following.

this patch is maked the game beyond feasble.

mind i am not a hugger in pvp.

aswel i not realy search pvp. i only join it when its protecting my lands.


but i just told him. if my ship have to remain at half sail.for a battle instance. at all time.
i not see the point to continue my journey. 

all this patch did was make gunnery enclopedia and ship handling book more valueble.

as i need to sacrifice. another 1 / 2 slots on boarding protecting.  read: i always tried make sure i didnt slow to the boarding speed.  hence. if the oponent managed to get me there it was  fair game too him  as i would always said.
so i sailed whitout.  using ship balancing and gunnery books.

and the second point where they fixed income for 1st & 2nd rate. (realy was it realy needed ??)
i have a ongoing discussion how i have too wait for the big patch cause they refuse fix the 4th rate mission in mean time also maked me more mad.

so i unninstalled after i was watching it for the last 2 weeks if any improvments come whitout too much wil to make anyplay. .

 

if they want too  get rid of huggers fine but not over 5th/4th rate players back.
i would say make musket fire a thing whitin 60m of a stern?

Edited by speijk

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4 hours ago, Wraith said:

I think you misinterpreted that statement. The Herc changed if you remember. As did the Requin's BR. If these can change then anything can change.

Wrong. But don't worry what you just did is a common mistake.

when you go to steam to buy an ship DLC you will see some stats. This are the hard stat and can't be changed. The reason behind this is because people payed real money for the ship.

So about the requin hard stats are:

 Class - 6th rate
Crew - 250
Max Speed - 13.39 knots
Turn Rate - 4.65
Guns - 30

This cannot be changed. What the devs do to try to balance is to change other stats or change some game mechanics in a search for balancing.

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19 minutes ago, no one said:

Wrong. But don't worry what you just did is a common mistake.

when you go to steam to buy an ship DLC you will see some stats. This are the hard stat and can't be changed. The reason behind this is because people payed real money for the ship.

So about the requin hard stats are:

 Class - 6th rate
Crew - 250
Max Speed - 13.39 knots
Turn Rate - 4.65
Guns - 30

This cannot be changed. What the devs do to try to balance is to change other stats or change some game mechanics in a search for balancing.

LOL, ok, because what was advertised on Steam has never been changed in subsequent updates?  Don't be a pedant:

e2765bb713d773f38fc1a18215949324.png

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31 minutes ago, Wraith said:

LOL, ok, because what was advertised on Steam has never been changed in subsequent updates?  Don't be a pedant:

e2765bb713d773f38fc1a18215949324.png

That is a game mechanic and they can be changed , hard stats nope.

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1 minute ago, Coraline Vodka said:

They can and have changed stats already

Again same history. There are hard stats and soft stats. Hard stats can't change.

Edited by no one

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9 minutes ago, no one said:

That is a game mechanic and they can be changed , hard stats nope.

Says who?  Not here:
https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds

In fact:
https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

1615adba1bae5a9735b015050b92076d.png

There is no such thing as a "hard stat," especially in an Early Access game which is currently under development. You paid for it, and for some reason bought DLC for it, but there's nothing in any EULA or refund policy that says that shit is static.  Just ask Fortnite fans who got their favorite weapon "Warehoused" or any other multiplayer online game company where balancing occurs post-release.

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7 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Says who?  Not here:
https://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds

In fact:
https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

1615adba1bae5a9735b015050b92076d.png

There is no such thing as a "hard stat," especially in an Early Access game which is currently under development. You paid for it, and for some reason bought DLC for it, but there's nothing in any EULA or refund policy that says that shit is static.  Just ask Fortnite fans who got their favorite weapon "Warehoused" or any other multiplayer online game company where balancing occurs post-release.

"...but there's nothing in any EULA or refund policy that says that shit is static." 

Who is making the game , steam or the naval action devs? Is they who decide how the game works if you don't like it ask them to change hard stats.

I am just explaining to you how it works.

Edited by no one

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7 minutes ago, no one said:

I am just explaining to you how it works.

And let's see, you are who to explain this?  A dev at Game Labs? Or someone who thinks they know it all while not wanting his precious Requin nerfed? :P 

Edited by Wraith

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