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MassimoSud

naval blockade for ostility mission

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Dear @admin and players/testers.

New proposal for hostility to activate port battles
• In front of each port in OW a circle is drawn, the circle for the naval blockade of the port, with crossed swords at its center. We can use the same width of the circle used for patrol zones, no defensive forts must be in range to fire.
• The enemy selects the swords and enters the battle phase by activating the naval blockade. This battle phase has no time limits, it remains always open. A ship that has spent 90 minutes in battle can choose to leave or continue for another 90 minutes. The ship that leaves is transported to the nearest friend port.
• News is reported on reaching 10% hostilities in combat news. The defending nation has the ability to verify (a scout can join the battle and can report the extent of the threat)
• The enemy who station in this circle begins to generate hostility, in proportion to their Br, every 60 min you generate points equal to your br. The friendly ships stationed in the circle generate negative hostility.
• The battle remains open until there are ships in battle or until the PB is activated. When a ship is sunk, another can join up to the BR limit.
• Battles have the same br limit of the PB expected for that port and remain limited to a maximum of 25 vs. 25.
• Only one nation at a time can generate hostilities in a port (the first that triggers the battle).
• If a ship is sunk it generates hostility equal to its BR (both offensively and defensively).
• The circle can not be exceeded (as in the patrol zone) but it does not shrink.
• You join the battle only from two points (one in attack and the other in defense).
• The battle is open only for the attacking nation (clan who open the blockade and his friends) and for the defending nation (clan who own the port and his friends).
• The port is assigned to the clan (attacking clan) that has generated the most points when the PB is activated.
PRO
Battles can last for hours and can involve many players.
Variety of ships involved if the circle has adequate dimensions.
PvP instead of PvE to activate the PBs
Possibility for nations not involved to intercept the attacking ships in reinforcement.
Battles that have a beginning and an end fixed and that therefore give the possibility also to players who have a pre-established time to participate in the RvR
No need to take missions, I m in a group with friends and step in front of a port, the timer is activated and I decide to join to start the naval blockade, simple and immediate (remember the flags?)
CONS
Much PvP will take place in these areas, the OW will be even less populated

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It wouldn't be much fun for an undefended port and favor large clans more than small. In all I think it would slow RvR to a crawl.

I'd much prefer a raid mechanic, pull a flag, hostility alert comes up... Attacker has to get into zones, bombard and then "board" the fortifications. Essentially, you could have a point system similar to a port battle, where if all three/four fortifications fall and the capture circle is held uncontested for 20 minutes after that, the attackers have the option of stealing the taxes and part of the goods of the port, or setting the port battle for the following day.

If the port battle is set and the fortifications have been captured, not destroyed, then you could make the fortifications player controlled for the attacking/defending team depending on which ones are still alive and controlled by each team, to allow players who are not in the battle to join and observe or participate.

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I love it, but I also have one issue with it. 

The way I read it if favors the defenders way to much because of the duration. 90 min and then another 90 minutes is to much. It should just be 1 battle imo = 90 min. 2 battles equals 3 hours, and attackers have to sail to and at least plan to sail back.. So they need to clear 4 hours for a hostility grind (*)?? That's just to much, seriously.
The attackers are the creator of RvR content for defenders (and often the rest of the server) don't make attacking to hard, please! 

If I read this right and it is intended to replace the hostility grind, so great! I love it :D
We kinda get a trial PB that a group of players just can decide to do, then immediately sail out to start it. That covers the best pros from the old flag system. And then if attackers win this battle the PB is scheduled for the next day and defenders get time to prepare.

I think this is the best suggestion for RvR I have seen in a very long time.. :) 

Edited by Tiedemann
Replaced pb with hostility grind and its just one issue
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When you are in the battle instance, you're in a circle, right?  Can you sail out of the circle?  I would think, yes, and then you just don't generate hostility...

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16 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

Dear @admin and players/testers.

New proposal for hostility to activate port battles
• In front of each port in OW a circle is drawn, the circle for the naval blockade of the port, with crossed swords at its center. We can use the same width of the circle used for patrol zones, no defensive forts must be in range to fire.
• The enemy selects the swords and enters the battle phase by activating the naval blockade. This battle phase has no time limits, it remains always open. A ship that has spent 90 minutes in battle can choose to leave or continue for another 90 minutes. The ship that leaves is transported to the nearest friend port. easy carebear game, you are proposing easy hostility without risking nothing---nope
• News is reported on reaching 10% hostilities in combat news. The defending nation has the ability to verify (a scout can join the battle and can report the extent of the threat) again, easy countergank mode, attakers don't have the ability to verify what is coming to join so also defenders must don't have - nope
• The enemy who station in this circle begins to generate hostility, in proportion to their Br, every 60 min you generate points equal to your br. The friendly ships stationed in the circle generate negative hostility. horrible, it will end with 2 fleets looking each others just sittings and defenders will always win cause he can send a scout to know enemy force and then bring 1st rate to win by point without firing a single ball - nope. 60 minute timer is also akward, no one has so much time to spend doing nothing...an hostility can be solved in few minutes and it's correct cause the real fight is after 1 day - again nope
• The battle remains open until there are ships in battle or until the PB is activated. When a ship is sunk, another can join up to the BR limit. again carebear easy-win action, the only one who can replace sunk ship is the defender due to proximity to his own port and without a screening fleet that can prevent to join the battle - big nope
• Battles have the same br limit of the PB expected for that port and remain limited to a maximum of 25 vs. 25. read previus point, reinforcement are only for denfenders- big nope again
• Only one nation at a time can generate hostilities in a port (the first that triggers the battle). scared of too many enemies? you cannot easy counter tag hostility?another carebear safe option - nope
• If a ship is sunk it generates hostility equal to its BR (both offensively and defensively).
• The circle can not be exceeded (as in the patrol zone) but it does not shrink. so what's the malus? ahah i see...you can run from battle until wherever you want risking nothing due to not shrinking circle...perfect carebear - epic nope
• You join the battle only from two points (one in attack and the other in defense). scared to join isolated positioning? ah no right...you want a scout inside battle to tell the defender squad how and where to join...pls stop thinking as a scared carebear - big nope
• The battle is open only for the attacking nation (clan who open the blockade and his friends) and for the defending nation (clan who own the port and his friends). neverending battle, winner is the one with more no-social life who can spend 180min inside an istance winning getting attakers bored...
• The port is assigned to the clan (attacking clan) that has generated the most points when the PB is activated.
PRO
Battles can last for hours and can involve many players. clearly a big CONS, too much wasting time
Variety of ships involved if the circle has adequate dimensions. nope, defenders will bring always the biggest ships possible...more BR more points, no need to fight - CONS
PvP instead of PvE to activate the PBs already happens, just join the hostility mission when you see is instead be scared to go out of your KPR reinforcement zone - CONS
Possibility for nations not involved to intercept the attacking ships in reinforcement.  carebear world...defenders have all advantages...nope - CONS
Battles that have a beginning and an end fixed and that therefore give the possibility also to players who have a pre-established time to participate in the RvR no limit if someone can decide if stay another 90 min after the first 90 min...nope - CONS
No need to take missions, I m in a group with friends and step in front of a port, the timer is activated and I decide to join to start the naval blockade, simple and immediate (remember the flags?) lovely, attakers come in front of you, maybe they also call you ''ehi i'm there, i want to star hostility for your port , may i?'' - when timer starts, move your bottom and search around your port...go out of your reinforcement zone once in your life. hostility missions are always near the target port...i swear you will not sweat to find them - CONS
CONS
Much PvP will take place in these areas, the OW will be even less populated it's already as this, just go where timer is active and scout if an enemy fleet is approaching...you just want a mechanic to bring away for 90 min enemies from your KPR...CONS

 

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48 minutes ago, Tiedemann said:

I love it, but I also have one or two issues with it. 

The way I read it if favors the defenders way to much because of the duration. 90 min and then another 90 minutes is to much. It should just be 1 battle imo = 90 min. 2 battles equals 3 hours, and attackers have to sail to and at least plan to sail back.. So they need to clear 4 hours for a pb?? That's just to much, seriously.
The attackers are the creator of RvR content for defenders (and often the rest of the server) don't make attacking to hard, please! 

If I read this right and it is intended to replace the hostility grind, so great! I love it :D
We kinda get a trial PB that a group of players just can decide to do, then immediately sail out to start it. That covers the best pros from the old flag system. And then if attackers win this battle the PB is scheduled for the next day and defenders get time to prepare.

I think this is the best suggestion for RvR I have seen in a very long time.. :) 

About the time thing, ignoring all other points, sorry :wacko:

1 hour of hostility raising and 1 hour of PB = two hours of content no matter how you cut it.

end game, REGION versus REGION combat, sums up to two battles, translates to two full hours of content.

However you want to do it, either hostilities or the port capture itself, one of these needs to be an all day or a couple day sort of thing. An hour is literally a blip in the day. There's 24 hours in a day which means there's a 23/24 chance I miss the window of PB.

There are on average 500 players logged in every day. A single PB holds 50 players offense and defense. I have a 1/10 alone of being a part of PB and that becomes more of a fraction the more players we get. 23/24 plus 1/10 equals something math. But you get my point. RVR needs some kind of long term effort that is inclusive to more than just a tiny fraction of the playerbase at a tiny  fraction of time.

That's why I like this idea so much. I can hop on in the morning, start the hostilities, get a few battles here and there. Then come back at the end of the night where I really have time and still have tons of battles because the port is still being contested by way of campaign and tug  of war struggle of power in the area. That's what real RvR is, not this rock paper scissors equivalent relative to how fast things are started and settled by a small minority of the supposed nations fighting these battles.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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clearly, i have not talked about the alt abuse...i send my alt to defend side, sink him and take hostility BRpoints...i have 180 min to make other alts join and do the same...

 

atm i don't like the hostility mission mechanic but it is the best we have since the beginning...

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3 minutes ago, Coraline Vodka said:

People could use an alt now to gain big chunk of hostility

not so easy, cause the 10 AI are quite demanding and you need to find and join the mission to do something to change the result...in massimo proposal instead, hostility will start out of target port...in front of all defenders

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Huliotkd dismantled to OP pretty good, but what is the solution.  Clearly there is dissatisfaction with the current method for hostility and I agree that it would be great if it took longer than an hour to complete.  Something that is more immersive for more players would be good.  Come on you vets...Solution it!

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1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

About the time thing..

So in my not so humble opinion: I consider it borderline delusional to suggest stuff like this, considering the current state of the game! Even at it's peak with 2000 online players all nations where not able to cover all time zones. So a feature like this would only be reserved for the nations that can cover the entire day, and nations that are not able would lose when they had no players in the fight sitting in circles getting points/fighting. 
Features like that I get for game titles that has 50.000 + active players that can cover all time zones. I do not think this will ever be the case for this game, it is to niche, but I hope/pray I'm wrong because I really like this game.

I seriously hope not the the OP shares you dream 24 hours battles because then i totally misunderstood the OP  😥 

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I like the idea but think it would be difficult to implement. Worth a try to see if it works or shows up bugs...

This I proposed a Blockade system Mar’17, read the 2nd one at the bottom of the post. It tried to bring more than just the belligerents into the fight from Gankers, traders and solo players as well. Also, ALT lock in as well...

The Time build up is all part of the PORT BATTLE.

http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/20214-the-port-battle-blockade-idea/

 

Norfolk

 

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I will try to explain my idea better to the advantage of all players who prefer hostility generated by PvP rather than battles against AI:

20 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

This battle phase has no time limits, it remains always open. A ship that has spent 90 minutes in battle can choose to leave or continue for another 90 minutes. The ship that leaves is transported to the nearest friend port.

This is for the benefit of those who have a real life in the real world, and can not spend the whole day in the game waiting for I do not know what! Example: I log in control where there is ostility, and then I go to the "hot" areas sure to find action, outside and inside the naval blockade!

20 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

We can use the same width of the circle used for patrol zones

 

20 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

The circle can not be exceeded (as in the patrol zone) but it does not shrink.

maybe I forgot to add that if you leave the circle it happens exactly what happens in the patrol zone, you sink!. I do not find it right that the circle should tighten because there is no need for the battle to end within 90 min, considering that after 90 min I can decide whether to stay in the battle for another 90 min (if I have time and desire) or I can leave the space to new players (who have time and desire). Moreover the circle that tightens "forces" the players to play only with tanky ships, and I prefer mixed fleet compositions, tanky and fast!

20 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

The enemy who station in this circle begins to generate hostility, in proportion to their Br, every 60 min you generate points equal to your br. The friendly ships stationed in the circle generate negative hostility.

The time of 60 min can be reviewed obviously, it must be tested, but what I would like to obtain is a time that gives the attackers (organized for hostility) an initial advantage for having had the initiative, and the defenders have adequate time to dispose countermeasures. What I would like is a hostility that is not reduced only in a race to those who arrive before (today we use two fleets of first rate ships to generate hostility as soon as possible, to the detriment of fun and PvP). Someone has spoken of advantage for the defenders, but today is not it worse? Or do you think that joining a battle and fighting 20vs10 is fairer?

20 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

You join the battle only from two points (one in attack and the other in defense).

I never thought interesting the positional join, I find it unfair, I'm still personally in favor of the tag with the two circles that had been tested and then abandoned (never understood why!) But obviusly that is my personal opinion.

20 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

The battle is open only for the attacking nation (clan who open the blockade and his friends) and for the defending nation (clan who own the port and his friends).

Someone is afraid of the alts! If you are afraid of the alts who are in a clan of your friends list then you would do well to change your own clan and your own nation!

4 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

and attackers have to sail to and at least plan to sail back.. So they need to clear 4 hours for a hostility grind (*)?? That's just to much, seriously.
The attackers are the creator of RvR content for defenders (and often the rest of the server) don't make attacking to hard, please! 

@Tiedemann i think that you didn t notice what i say about leaving battle and beeing towed to nearest friendly port :)

20 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

A ship that has spent 90 minutes in battle can choose to leave or continue for another 90 minutes. The ship that leaves is transported to the nearest friend port.

 

4 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

When you are in the battle instance, you're in a circle, right?  Can you sail out of the circle?  I would think, yes, and then you just don't generate hostility...

If you sail out the circle you start sinking

20 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

Battles have the same br limit of the PB expected for that port and remain limited to a maximum of 25 vs. 25.

Here I can see only potentially balanced battles! Where is "countergank" mode?

 

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3 hours ago, huliotkd said:

easy carebear game, you are proposing easy hostility without risking nothing---nope

 

3 hours ago, huliotkd said:

scared of too many enemies? you cannot easy counter tag hostility?another carebear safe option - nope

 

3 hours ago, huliotkd said:

perfect carebear

 

3 hours ago, huliotkd said:

pls stop thinking as a scared carebear

 

Dear @huliotkd what problems do you have?

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Massimo a scared carebear?  Please.  

Hostility should be based on establishing a port blockade.  PVP will naturally come out of it. 

First thing to think about is time scale.  It should take a week or two to do anything meaningful regarding port flips.  That takes the day/night thing out of the equation.  

I like this Massimo.

Edited by BigMo
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3 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

So in my not so humble opinion: I consider it borderline delusional to suggest stuff like this, considering the current state of the game! Even at it's peak with 2000 online players all nations where not able to cover all time zones. So a feature like this would only be reserved for the nations that can cover the entire day, and nations that are not able would lose when they had no players in the fight sitting in circles getting points/fighting. 
Features like that I get for game titles that has 50.000 + active players that can cover all time zones. I do not think this will ever be the case for this game, it is to niche, but I hope/pray I'm wrong because I really like this game.

I seriously hope not the the OP shares you dream 24 hours battles because then i totally misunderstood the OP  😥 

I dunno. Maybe I play too many games because RvR means completely different things if you look elsewhere. When I think conquest I subsequently think campaign, when I think borderline arcade I think of current RvR mechanics. In E.V.E or Planetside 2 you aren't sad that you missed one specific battle, you're happy that there always battles going on. That's good RvR to me, feel free to disagree just stating opinions.

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7 hours ago, BigMo said:

Massimo a scared carebear?  Please.  

 

yes he is, when we attak KPR he wait always his 7-8 mates to follow us but stopping on reinforcement area border...never gone out to fight without the chance to get more player to reinforce. or maybe, he is saying he doesn't care about positional joining but he does everytime he joins our battle in front of KPR inside the reinforcement area.

also he never accept a 1v1 when me or Licinio propose it inside battle istance...carebear behaviour

 

btw, i don't like this proposal cause all the mechanics are in favour of defenders that is the only one who can replace the player lost in 1 min cause the mission will be in front of the target port. i considering also alt abuse cause it happens a lot, and changing clan or nation won't resolve that abuse...for example, if i'm not wrong @MassimoSud has 3-4 alt....

also to generate hostility points you wrote you need 60 min or maybe less, but staying in circle...maybe you can close the hostility in 10 minutes in a group of 6 player cause you have real-life so you need to be fast, and lose 60 min doing nothing (no one could join maybe) is a big timeloss...

towing in nearest friendly port after battle is the perfect carebear solution to the problem to fight out of mission going back home...a magic TP to home, the perfect dream of carebears. to be precise, this was an old feature and it was removed due to destroying PVP in OW...and due to the perfect carebears abuse tha join the mission and leave in 2 min to get a fast TP to nearest port...he can be also the attaker, not only defender.

8 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

 

Here I can see only potentially balanced battles! Where is "countergank" mode?

 

you said that BR is the same of PB but this doesn't mean that the fleet have to be balanced...for example, for a BR of 2500 i can use 2 oceans and 1 victory just sitting inside your proposed circle waiting for the enemy fleet get closer and start firing sinking everything and producing my 2500 defending BR plus the killed ship BR...so again, all the advantages are for defenders who don't have the problem to sail from a port,reach enemy waters, raise hostility and have enought reps within to resolve...so the proposal is perfect for the carebears who are scared to sail out of protected area where they are sure to win by mechanic like your

 

so yes, you are thinking as a carebear...so i suppose you are

bye

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16 hours ago, MassimoSud said:

 

@Tiedemann i think that you did not notice what i say about leaving battle and being towed to nearest friendly port :)

TIME: I did not notice that so thanks, but still that is just a save of the time needed to sail back. 90 min + 90 min + the sail there is still to much time imo. So what I'm trying achieve is to limit it to 1 battle instance = 90 min. So then setting a PB should be an event taking on average 120 minutes and that should be acceptable for most. 

NO DEFENDER: In case the defenders do not join this battle instance at all it should also be over and done after a set amount of time. So attackers are not forced to sit there for 90 minutes doing nothing. To give defenders a chance to rally they need at least 30 minutes, but they should be able to send in a scout ship. So if nothing has joined on the defenders side within 30 minutes there should be a mechanic speeding up the winning process for attackers.    

KITING: There is one big circle just like the patrol one, but in this case it does not shrink. And both teams get points generated by having BR in this battle circle every 60 minutes. So if the winners are the team with most points based on their BR in the battle and what they sink, what is preventing the defenders from joining in light ships that match the BR of the attackers and just kite around and try their best not to sink? Attackers will start this battle, and there for have BR in the battle first. So generating hostility based on BR every minute or 15 minute might give the attackers the upper hand and now they can kite, so that would not work either.

To prevent kiting you need something, and I see nothing in the OP to prevent this.

The PB 3 circles solution is not good enough imo, defenders can kite. Why they did not make just 2 circles or 1 circle I will never understand.
In a patrol zone battle this is resolved by the shrinking circle. I do not like the shrinking circle because if I'm in a heavy ship I have to stay far far away from the circle edge and this prevents me from chasing enemy's in faster ships in the beginning. But you can just stay in the center and wait until the circle is tiny so at least it could work if the enemy did not have the possibility to leave.

So I would suggest to have 1 small capture circle in this new battle instance. And it should not be larger than the circles in the PB. Then you have to be in that to gain hostility points, highest BR get points. Equal BR nobody get points. And sinking or losing a ship should affect the points just like you suggested in the OP. 
This would at least give a decisive battle result each time. And that is imo the most fun. If we can not achieve this then I personally don't see the point.    
  

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I wonder how this will compare to new hostility mechanics. Still great ideas I fully support.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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I like blockades... blockades are fun. In my humble opinion the most fun I have had at a port battle has been denying a port battle because of the open world element for combat.

The form of blockade mechanic as posted by the perpetrator of this topic could be countered by the anti blockading fleets of the attacker, that is the faction that worked up the hostility or is working up hostility. That is... the blockaders, could they not be intercepted in the open world? After release it will be far more difficult for players to work up hostility because of the influx of all those players that have been waiting patiently to play the game upon full release. Hostility missions will become more difficult if players may join from both side for said hostility...

So this encourages me to think that it would simply be better to perhaps have  the hostility mission open for a time for both sides to respond... random open world players could join according to the battle rating of the attacking fleet, or perhaps subject to the preset battle rating for the port of interest.       

As long as you join within the preset countdown for the battle... you and your ship that you arrived in replaces an NPC... if you cant join, then an NPC ship of acceptable rank would randomly load in to replace the absent player(s). Perhaps even consider allowing any nationality to join on which  ever side. This would be crazy but fun... also you would never really know who would be defending/fighting with you so... maybe not such a great idea, but I am crazy so.... yeah. I feel the negative vibes man... negative vibes. 

Anyway, I like the idea of having a controlled instance for a blockade against hostility missions. I do feel that the current system would need to be a little reworked though in order to support a change like this, as this would certainly make it more difficult to generate port battles in, not all, but some instances. This would allow larger clans to generally respond more to hostility build ups, that is, clans that span the globe and have players on at all hours.

For small clans of 3 or 5 players... I don't really see the advantage... of course such small clans should probably focus more on other things than port ownership, at least that is what I would recommend. 

Any how, this was an interesting topic and I think it stimulated some creative thinking for me, thus, it was worth my while to respond. Good post, its not a fix all, but perhaps a few insights can be gleaned from this thread for future developments.

Three cheers for the frigates and their galante captains.

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