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Some of you look down upon the PvE community. But don't underestimate them. Player may return to PvP server one day, others make their first experiences here. Some found a way to still love the game which would be dead for them if only the PvP world would exist, after having been ganked once too often...

So, for the sake of Naval Action, also PvE server needs some love and new content for attracting players there, maybe something which does not even exist on PvP. And here it is, such thing.

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PvE server could have something dynamic too, like flipping ports and nations fighting against each other. How could this be done without breaking the 'prime directive' of PvE, which is apparently: no PvP ever? And why should PvE players not have some fun like you PvP players with your port battles? An alternative way of struggling for port conquest?

My idea tries to implement RvR and port conquest on PvE server without actually one player having to fight against another. Conquest of neutral ports is not done by hostility missions and port battles, but by the result of a mix of four factors which are:

  • fighting NPC enemy of certain nationality in the vicinity of desired ports  (A)
  • prevailing market shares in the economy of that port in question (B)
  • number of outposts in this port, in regard of nationalities behind the ownership (C)
  • production rating created by buildings belonging to those outposts (D)

Free towns and capital areas of primary nations (GB, FR, ES, NL, Pirates) are not a legitimate target for conquest. Changing the national status of a once neutral port is determined once a week, not daily, for giving enough time for accumulating enough material for the four factors A - D which determine the outcome of attempted flipping. After each week, the server will do automated math about activities around each port and give it to the nation which achieved the most influence over those factors, transparent to the community on a sort of conquest board like what you get on your map in PvP.

Changing the nationality of a port means on PvE server: outposts will continue to exist for everyone, but war ships of other nations than the new owner will not be able to enter. Even new outposts can still be set up by foreigners (as is necessary for one of my four factors anyway). A leader board for nations owning ports appears on PvE map info tab.

I will now show how those four factors are supposed to work, in an example calculation for a port, say; La Desconocida. Nations involved are V, W, X, Y, Z.

(A) Fighting AI fleets in vicinity

Players attack AI fleets as usual, but within 15k or 20k diameter around port it will enter the calculation for that port's future ownership. And it matters which nationality among AI you are attacking, for the first time on PvE that does make a difference! Battle Ratings of all ships sunk by players influence how one nation begins to prevail over another in that area. And only there.

Fictional calculation as example (did not look up BR, it's just for giving some numbers):

Nation V scored 1800 BR against nation W, 600 against X, 300 against Y, 1080 against Z.

Nation W scored 1050 against V, 2000 against X, 1500 against Y, 770 against Z.

Nation X scored 850 against V, 350 against W, 2800 against Y, 1400 against Z.

Nation Y scored 800 against V, 850 against W, 1200 against X, 450 against Z.

Nation Z scored 200 against V, 550 against W, 900 against X, 300 against Y.

Now those results enter the big picture of all enemy BR having been sunk by each nation around La Desconocida in a week, minus BR gotten inflicted on their own side by the other nations:

Nation V: 3780 - (1050+850+800+200) = 880

Nation W: 5320 - (1800+350+850+550) = 1770

Nation X: 5400 - (600+2000+1200+900) = 700

Nation Y: 3300 - (2800+300+1500+300) = - 1600

Nation Z: 1950 - (1400+1080+770+450) = - 1750

We get a qualitative ranking now, telling about who sunk most with the least own (that is still AI of course) losses. It is (1) nation W, (2) nation V, (3) nation X, (4) nation Y, (5 and last) nation Z. This is what is used in the final calculation for factor (A), as we will see at the end of this post.

 

(B) Market shares in port trade of last week

Nation V ---> sold value of 28.000 gold, bought value of 56.000 gold in La Desconocida, by all traders of that nation summarized. Total 84.000.

Nation W --> sold 14.000 worth, bought 83.000 worth. Total 97.000.

Nation X --> sold 5.000, bought 14.000. Total 19.000.

Nation Y --> sold 7.200, bought 4.800. Total 12.000.

Nation Z --> sold 33.000, bought 22.000. Total 55.000.

We get a qualitative ranking in regard of market shares over  a week, invisible among competitors, processed in silence by game mechanics which determines: (1) nation W, (2) nation V, (3) nation Z, (4) nation X, (5) nation Y. This is used as factor (B) in the final calculation.

(C) Number of outposts in port by nationality

Nation V --> 0 (none)

Nation W --> 2

Nation X --> 1

Nation Y --> 3

Nation Z --> 3

Qualitative ranking for number of outposts (equal numbers share rank) during last week in La Desconocida: (1) nation Y, (1) nation Z, (2) nation W, (3) nation X, (4) nation V. This is the influence entering the final calculation as factor (C).

(D)Production values by buildings belonging to national outposts

What does count here is what players actively harvested or crafted by their buildings, not the numbers which have not been requested/processed via player interaction, as these may be inactive accounts. Inactive buildings with just material on stock is being ignored. In addition only resources which leave port could count, not stacks of unused stuff filling up warehouses.

Nation V --> 0 (none)

Nation W --> 3.600 units

Nation X --> 950 units

Nation Y --> 3100 units

Nation Z --> 2.600 units

(labor contracts should be counted x 500 for the hours they contain)

Ranking over production buildings here is, collected over a week by nationality: (1) nation W, (2) nation Y, (3) nation Z, (4) nation X, (5) nation V. This is the contribution of factor (D) to the final calculation of all four influences.

Now comes the finalization:

Nation V --> (factor A) 2nd, (factor B ) 2nd, (factor C) 5th, (factor D) 5th ranking = average 3,5

Nation W --> 1st, 1st, 3rd, 1st = 1,5

Nation X --> 3rd, 4th, 4th, 4th = 3,75

Nation Y --> 4th, 5th, 1st, 2nd = 3,0

Nation Z --> 5th, 5th, 1st, 3rd = 3,5

Result: Nation W holds this port La Desconocida for the next week.

Should two nations rank with an identical average, it means a stalemate and a third nation following their ranking will get the port for the week, as "laughing third party".

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All this calculating does not have to bother players. I only wanted to show how the server would have to interpret the events over a week of competition into port flipping efforts. People with an interest in how their nation performs and ranks will simply have to support the economy of a port they want to see theirs as much as possible, plus fight enemy AI next to the port, for doing their part for victory.

For PvE server players who don't have any interest in RvR, nothing will change except they would no more be able to sail war ships into former neutral ports which changed nationality, everything else and the status of free towns is not touched. Like it is on PvP. And their traders stay as safe as ever, typical for PvE server. However, with this concept of 'trade war RvR' we would have a new dynamic on PvE server, which will make it more attractive for people to stay (and maybe prepare themselves for another attempt on PvP server afterwards).

 

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Are how about they give you a safe zone to play in and we just merge the servers if you want RvR than you can just come out and play with the big boys if that is what you want in the game.  They never promised a PvE server that was just something they did to be nice to a few players.

I honestly think they should just turn the whole GoM into a PvE zone like they mentioned before. If you want to be part of the safe/PvE nations you play French or Spain (maybe even US).  Though you still have an option to go to the capital and play on the PvP part of the server.   

Just make the PvE zones low rewards and keep the PvP contents/rewars in the PvP friendly zones.  They just don't have the man power to work for content that is enough to make two servers a PvE/PvP server (main one) and the PvE only server and keep the population and players happy.

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1 hour ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Some of you look down upon the PvE community.

Unfortunately I have to agree, as a PvE player I do feel the bias.

However I don’t believe this is indicative of GameLabs, I have seen somewhere a statement to the effect that the PvE server(s) will not be shutdown, but alias not much else encouragement.

People do play both PvE and PvP you all know!

 

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There is no content on the PvE server so if it is going to stay then your idea or any idea for that matter should be considered. What I think would be better for the game is to have safe safe zones for all Nations that people could do basic missions and resource gathering. Eventually these people would venture out into the real world.

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I never have looked down on PvE players - in fact I like them, they are a crucial part of a thriving market and community.

I WANT them on the PvP server, not because I want to sink them, but because they bring market demand and supply and more players to interact. that is why i also WANT an actual safezone so that when these PvE players want to just chillax they have the area to do so. I perfectly understand though that some PvE focused players want the entire map to be no PvP and that's fine too since they got a server.

I agree with giving PvE players more things to do. I'm not sure if RvR on the PvE server is the right thing as some players would be upset that they can't get into X/Y/Z port due to someone else owning it.

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I'd second this if it meant that the PvP server could become a PvP server once more.

Let the PvE server experience RvR, and let the PvP server remove the reinforcementzones, and split the PvP server into a EU and US server once more so we can have timers that is actually aligned for the majority of the population *looking at the cowardly french with a grim eye*..

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12 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Are how about they give you a safe zone to play in and we just merge the servers if you want RvR than you can just come out and play with the big boys if that is what you want in the game.  They never promised a PvE server that was just something they did to be nice to a few players.

I honestly think they should just turn the whole GoM into a PvE zone like they mentioned before. If you want to be part of the safe/PvE nations you play French or Spain (maybe even US).  Though you still have an option to go to the capital and play on the PvP part of the server.   

Just make the PvE zones low rewards and keep the PvP contents/rewars in the PvP friendly zones.  They just don't have the man power to work for content that is enough to make two servers a PvE/PvP server (main one) and the PvE only server and keep the population and players happy.

Thread is not about merging PvP and PvE servers. For most PvE players this is not acceptable at all. Forget it.

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11 hours ago, BuckleUpBones said:

Unfortunately I have to agree, as a PvE player I do feel the bias.

However I don’t believe this is indicative of GameLabs, I have seen somewhere a statement to the effect that the PvE server(s) will not be shutdown, but alias not much else encouragement.

People do play both PvE and PvP you all know!

 

Yes, I am active in both. Although mostly now on PvE. And it is fine, being able to switch if I feel like it.

I did not mean to address devs as "looking down upon PvE players", I meant our proud PvP pro's and I know their posts.

Edited by Cetric de Cornusiac
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What I forgot in the opening post is, buying and selling over contracts would be restricted to nationals after a port flipped. Still no big disadvantage as most merchandise stays accessible to the whole community. But I need to put some incentive for wanting to conquer a port back. Especially those with rare materials like copper, cartagena tar, white oak etc...

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1 hour ago, Ortac said:

I presume that if a "home" port is captured by an enemy nation, that all shipyards in the port would remain active, albeit only accessible by traders and merchants.

Right. Once you would build a war ship on your shipyard, you could leave with the new ship, but not return there, until port is retaken into possession by your nation.

Anyway, we hardly have a clan scene on PvE server, so the organization level of players is much lower than on clan-ridden PvP. RvR would either have the effect people would join into clans for said purpose, or they'd have to coordinate their efforts a bit over chat, when a particular port is targeted.

Someone here in the responses suggested we would simply do portbattles against AI. I doubt AI knows how to defend circles or react on player actions or ruses accordingly (a pattern would soon get detected and endlessly exploited). Also portbattles are concentrated actions on one - two hours, and my idea is taking into account lower numbers of players, and less momentum, so I chose a whole week as time frame for preparations for port flipping. Portbattles are the genuine clan managed thing as ports become clan-owned. None of that is possible on mostly clan-void PvE server.

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Why not allow the PvE players to defend their ports? - in effect create a PvP element in the PvE server.. Otherwise I foresee a shitloads of flips/counterflips especially since there's no way to counter a flip.

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@Cetric de Cornusiac good thread.  Not sure if you've read any of the many similar previous suggestions on this or not, but I like the depth of your OP here.

I'm like you and play on both servers, but play almost all pve when I play on Caribbean.  Like you I still enjoy the choice to just totally relax and do my thing on pve server when I choose to; can still play with half-attention while the kids and family are all needy.  Problem then becomes that the pve server offers just a little bit short of satisfactory experience, it does need a little bit more IMO, but in the light of a still non-threatening environment.  If I want to enjoy the attack threat (and some of us pve type players still do enjoy the threat) then I go back and play on Caribbean.

The only drawback I see to your suggestion is that people on pve server enjoy not having things taken from them, so those with shipyards or assets in capturable ports might wince at this suggestion.  Kind of forces your hand to build shipyards and workshops and clan WH's and stock assets in only safe ports, and I see that as a drawback.  How would you counter that?

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18 hours ago, Jean Ribault said:

@Cetric de Cornusiac good thread.  Not sure if you've read any of the many similar previous suggestions on this or not, but I like the depth of your OP here.

I'm like you and play on both servers, but play almost all pve when I play on Caribbean.  Like you I still enjoy the choice to just totally relax and do my thing on pve server when I choose to; can still play with half-attention while the kids and family are all needy.  Problem then becomes that the pve server offers just a little bit short of satisfactory experience, it does need a little bit more IMO, but in the light of a still non-threatening environment.  If I want to enjoy the attack threat (and some of us pve type players still do enjoy the threat) then I go back and play on Caribbean.

The only drawback I see to your suggestion is that people on pve server enjoy not having things taken from them, so those with shipyards or assets in capturable ports might wince at this suggestion.  Kind of forces your hand to build shipyards and workshops and clan WH's and stock assets in only safe ports, and I see that as a drawback.  How would you counter that?

The answer to this, as suggested above, is that all shipyards in a captured port remain active, but only accessible with a trader or merchant ship. Enemy war ships could still be built and sailed out of the port, but could not get back in. Ergo, no loss of assets.

 

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21 hours ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Why not allow the PvE players to defend their ports? - in effect create a PvP element in the PvE server.. Otherwise I foresee a shitloads of flips/counterflips especially since there's no way to counter a flip.

There is a way of countering a flip. A week is necessary for that and this gives plenty of hints what's going on, especially when you realize unusual number of AI sinking close to a port. Or when you have a spy/alt/friend sitting in another national chat (which is revived with my idea, now national chats are mostly empty and everyone concentrates on global) you get a tip they plan to attack port X. So that leaves you plenty of time to do the same, fighting AI or calling everyone to do trade in that port to at least win other factors than (A). Whole days. Nothing as hasty as things having to be rushed on PvP.

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19 hours ago, Jean Ribault said:

The only drawback I see to your suggestion is that people on pve server enjoy not having things taken from them, so those with shipyards or assets in capturable ports might wince at this suggestion.  Kind of forces your hand to build shipyards and workshops and clan WH's and stock assets in only safe ports, and I see that as a drawback.  How would you counter that?

Still the losses which come with port flipping on PvE are minor, compared with the ones on PvP. Nobody has to risk his own ships, unless he does mistakes opposite AI. Possessions on land I don't see endanged, as they can continue to operate under new rule. You are right, PvE players will have to face some threat then, but the gained dynamics, still as much as possible easened for them by only weekly changes, is a cure for 'boredom' I sometimes notice other players uttering about. A bit of threat isn't bad, even on PvE server, for sake of entertainment.

And if people want to relocate their warehouses to other ports, it is possible without any danger by shipping stuff on Indiamen to the new place, contrary to PvP server. But I think it will not be necessary, if enough players unite to defend their port by setting up enough outposts and increasing trade and production for winning factors (B), (C) and (D), which is almost ensured when there is a couple of significant clan warehouses and workshops in operation with all business related to them.

With my concept, nationality will begin to play a role on PvE, which is hardly having a meaning right now.

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On 9/7/2018 at 9:24 PM, Sir Texas Sir said:

Are how about they give you a safe zone to play in and we just merge the servers if you want RvR than you can just come out and play with the big boys if that is what you want in the game.  They never promised a PvE server that was just something they did to be nice to a few players.

I honestly think they should just turn the whole GoM into a PvE zone like they mentioned before. If you want to be part of the safe/PvE nations you play French or Spain (maybe even US).  Though you still have an option to go to the capital and play on the PvP part of the server.   

Just make the PvE zones low rewards and keep the PvP contents/rewars in the PvP friendly zones.  They just don't have the man power to work for content that is enough to make two servers a PvE/PvP server (main one) and the PvE only server and keep the population and players happy.

I've heard trhat some people have discovered a way to gank in the pve areas.

This idea is rubbish "Just make the PvE zones low rewards", why we get decent rewards on the pve server, why would we want rubbish on your server.

 

On 9/8/2018 at 12:39 AM, Intrepido said:

It would be way easier if you come back to the pvp server.

Just so we can be mauled again by the coward fleets waiting outside ports.

 

On 9/8/2018 at 1:02 AM, Old Crusty said:

There is no content on the PvE server so if it is going to stay then your idea or any idea for that matter should be considered. What I think would be better for the game is to have safe safe zones for all Nations that people could do basic missions and resource gathering. Eventually these people would venture out into the real world.

When I first started in this game back in 2014, we had little round circles to play in and a total of I believe 6 ships, it was fun up to a point (lack of updates). Then I got bored, left the game for a year and came back to see that I was in pvp, where I stayed for the next year or so, was good fun until the last month or so when the rubbish players arrived, who couldn't sink a paper bag solo, so they congregated in fleets and picked on the noobs and solo warriors, how exciting for them, "Hey guys we sank a yacht" yippeeee and they did, but with 25 1st rates, how glorious they must have felt to actually kill something. Then I joined a clan, which made it great again for a few months as we went out looking for the people who ganked (yes we knew who they were) but they vanished like willow the wisp, until everyone got bored again. Thats when I joined pve, where everyone is fine and we can all chat like humans. I would love to go back to pvp, but not while its full of cowardly gankers, who only pick a 25-1 ratio in battles.

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