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Cetric de Cornusiac

Create national councils for regulating the 'big picture' of each nation's stance

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Diplomacy is great in a game like this. But it is easily spoiled by brutes who have no idea what interesting game content that could be, or don't care, or like to blow up relations. A good working diplomacy on the other hand helps every nation. It avoids pointless conflicts, arranges alliances and streamlines efforts for set goals. This suggestion is about helping diplomacy to gain in importance and protect it from getting sabotaged by certain players.

It has been talked about before, but due to present situation I feel like I have to develop further an earlier suggestion about the introduction of means on the national level in order to discipline clans who go rogue in a nation (or came there to ignite chaos).

Yes, chaos guys and the type which is at war with anyone for sake of his personal satisfaction will strongly object to this. But for them this suggestion also has a vision for the future...

1.) Introduce national councils, marine ministries or Admiralties for each nation except Pirates.

They are organized in a democratic way, reflecting the biggest clans and giving them votes in the council according to the numbers of their active members.

For example: Nation 'Alpha' has five clans with more than three members. Clan A: 45 members, Clan B: 22 members, Clan C : 18 members, Clan D : 16 members, Clan E: 7 members. A total of 100 seats in the national council/marine ministry/Admiralty is to be distributed among those, so that means 41 seats for A, 20 seats for B, 16 seats for C, 14 seats for D. I always rounded down, leaving the rest to the smallest clan and making it stronger, which means: 9 seats for clan E. Or leave the rest ( here 3 seats, with clan E having 6) from session to session randomly to one of the smaller clans not qualifying in numbers for the council. They elect a speaker for the board. But this is no dictator, he has to follow decisions of the council. He speaks in the name of them all.

2.) National council will determine national policies towards other nations (and it is nations, not clans - clans have to subjugate to national interests)

Alliances, wars, neutral behavior. Also we could introduce 'open trade relations' as something between neutrality and alliance. Meaning, fleets with accompanying escort are free to enter ports for trading. In neutral relations, only traders were allowed (no warship escorts) like it is now. During War, no ships at all can enter. The status of each nation towards the others is visible in some roster on the Caribbean map. Set up a national page only visible to related nationals with internal decisions posted there.

3.) Clans within a nation who spoil national decisions and the relations with other nations based upon these have to be disciplined by the national council if demanded by another member clan

Council will discuss the problem with a clan which acts in violation of clear national decisions. They can bring the clan to reason or apply measures to discipline that clan. Measures could be to deny them access to other ports than their own, increase their taxes for ports they own, deny them help in their fleet operations. The utmost measure would be to expell that rogue clan out of the nation it does not want to integrate in.

What happens to a clan being expelled? It becomes Pirate. Their members and ships, that is. The ports they have will become neutral. Hopefully the nation can take them before another nation does exploit the situation. With a very large clan going rogue this thus becomes a simulation of civil war somehow. In most cases the disciplination measures will not have to go that far and the rogue clan will pledge allegiance to the national council again. It would be silly if it went on, weakening itself. And that is the purpose of this suggestion.

This suggestion also defines a remedy against clans which could be implemented on purpose in another nation in order to wreck their diplomacy. And removes our current impotence to do something against this. We cannot avoid spies, but the problem of whole clans messing up national interests has to be countered.

4.) Could be connected with a general reassessment of the Pirate community

Them being no longer a 'nation' (which they never were), but a collection of lawless, exiled 'scum' of every nation (which they were, below a half-legal status as privateers). No Ship-of-the-Line building for them, only capturing. Other mechanics which have been proposed already (privilege of having hideouts and secret bases etc, contract work for nations).

5.) Regulating the admission of a new clan into a nation

The older clans have their reputation, horror clowns have theirs. If they change sides, it will no longer happen 'automatically', with no means of a nation to reject them. This is meant as protection against getting undermined by hostile clans pretending to work for the new nation, but still having secret allegiances to their old buddies. Upon request of a clan to enter a nation, the national council of that nation will discuss that issue and decide whether they grant access of that clan to the nation or deny. This is also a way for a former member which was expelled to Pirates to get back into the nation, if they agree to submit to the national interest in the future and behave better. A rejected clan stays in its old nation and may ask other nations for admittance.

Single players without clan membership can freely chose which side to fight for as before, without having to ask first the national council. So the DLC 'forger' isn't affected by changes suggested here.

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You're proposing that an individual player be guided (or in fact ordered) to behave in a particular maner...by other players?  If so, that's completely unacceptable. 

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There already are diplomatic relations in game.  You cannot attack those in your faction, and you can see what clan they are in.  All others are "Enemy Player."  This is ample and appropriate.

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@admin should take a look at that system. It would bring a a good designed diplomacy system to the game. This game has much potential, one of its potential are the relationsships between the nations. I really like that suggested system and i think it would give the game a depth it really needs. I know the devs cancelled their ally system from the past, but i think that was too fast. It was a flat system without depth. For me that would be a reason to buy this game. Until now, the game has only one good point: the battle system. it could need some more good points to make more player buy the game and stay because of its well designed game systems in more than one aspect to give the player a long term motivation.

 

Edited by Sven Silberbart
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51 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

You're proposing that an individual player be guided (or in fact ordered) to behave in a particular maner...by other players?  If so, that's completely unacceptable. 

I'd remember that the idea of total freedom is total crap.

Both in RL and in any MMO (being a society too).

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1 hour ago, Oberon74 said:

You're proposing that an individual player be guided (or in fact ordered) to behave in a particular maner...by other players?  If so, that's completely unacceptable. 

That's exactly the attitude that stops anything being done in Britain, there's always someone or clan that says "You can't tell me what to do"

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3 minutes ago, NethrosDefectus said:

That's exactly the attitude that stops anything being done in Britain, there's always someone or clan that says "You can't tell me what to do"

You don't need the all nation to do something. You just need a sufficient amount of players. If you're waiting for everybody for sure nothing will be ever accomplished.

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This should be implemented or be completly RNG becouse lets face it we are admirals,captains not politicans,diplomats or king/queen it would be intresting 

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5 minutes ago, NethrosDefectus said:

That's exactly the attitude that stops anything being done in Britain, there's always someone or clan that says "You can't tell me what to do"

Because you can't.  You can ask..and you can choose to cooperate, but another player has no authority over you.

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As long as the largest timezone group cant dictate who the other timezone players can fight against.

1 hour ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

What happens to a clan being expelled? It becomes Pirate. Their members and ships, that is. The ports they have will become neutral. Hopefully the nation can take them before another nation does exploit the situation.

This type of power shouldnt be held by anyone in the game.. Ever

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1 hour ago, Powderhorn said:

There already are diplomatic relations in game.  You cannot attack those in your faction, and you can see what clan they are in.  All others are "Enemy Player."  This is ample and appropriate.

And too simple. Read my text to find the exploits which are unsolved at the moment.

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There's only one way to do things proper.

Absolute power invested in me. No need for a council with daggers as smiles.

Everything else will fail, can tell you that right now.

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1 hour ago, Oberon74 said:

You're proposing that an individual player be guided (or in fact ordered) to behave in a particular maner...by other players?  If so, that's completely unacceptable. 

Who is talking about individual players? I am talking about misbehaving clans altogether and the need to discipline them by the nation they serve. It is not the other way around, "nation serving clan". Some seem to forget the big picture. And those who want to act absolutely untamed are free to join Pirates and do as they please.

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Just now, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

There's only one way to do things proper.

Absolute power invested in me.

Everything else will fail, can tell you that right now.

Benevolent Monarchy is the best of all governments.....and the worst when it stops being benevolent.  You must have a suitable heir...

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Just now, Oberon74 said:

Benevolent Monarchy is the best of all governments.....and the worst when it stops being benevolent.  You must have a suitable heir...

My character is immortal unless I decide to delete it. I nominate any new character I create once i delete this one, my heir. Praise the Emperor and pass the ammunition.

I am joking, sorry Cetric. What I am trying to say is that the notion of Nation has moved, by popular demand, to a clan based system.

We are private ventures hired by euro powers. All we have to do is pay tax and keep the NPC God Emperor happy.

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Just now, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Who is talking about individual players? I am talking about misbehaving clans altogether and the need to discipline them by the nation they serve. It is not the other way around, "nation serving clan". Some seem to forget the big picture. And those who want to act absolutely untamed are free to join Pirates and do as they please.

Whose "big picture" is that?  Yours?  There is no such thing as a "misbehaving" clan, because they have no mandate to follow another persons (nation?) requirements.  Just because they choose to fly a particular flag does not mean they owe any allegiance to anybody else who has that flag. 

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59 minutes ago, Sven Silberbart said:

@admin should take a look at that system. It would bring a a good designed diplomacy system to the game. This game has much potential, one of its potential are the relationsships between the nations. I really like that suggested system and i think it would give the game a depth it really needs. I know the devs cancelled their ally system from the past, but i think that was too fast. It was a flat system without depth. For me that would be a reason to buy this game. Until now, the game has only one good point: the battle system. it could need some more good points to make more player buy the game and stay because of its well designed game systems in more than one aspect to give the player a long term motivation.

 

Yes. At least one who understood me completely. Diplomacy is enjoyed by many players who are not just of the "trigger-happy" "seal-clubbing" type. All great game with historical background have a decent diplomacy system, think of Civ series. As it means only some basic rules who is foe and who is friend, the above mentioned warrior types still can have their fun and don't have to bother with diplomacy while following the simple rules of engagement for their respective nation.

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Just now, Oberon74 said:

Whose "big picture" is that?  Yours?  There is no such thing as a "misbehaving" clan, because they have no mandate to follow another persons (nation?) requirements.  Just because they choose to fly a particular flag does not mean they owe any allegiance to anybody else who has that flag. 

Actually if you fly British flag you are loyal to british if new diplomacy prevents you from attacking alied nation its a good thing

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21 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

Because you can't.  You can ask..and you can choose to cooperate, but another player has no authority over you.

You don't seem to understand. No other player will have authority over you, but the sum of all clans (their majority, that is). Like in real life. Even better, I propose a democratic system and no "French king" British Queen" or "Spanish King" simply ordering stuff and everybody has to bow their heads. No, the stance of the nation is the result of discussion in the national council.

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