Imported vessels - limited capture; safe teleport using fleets fix

[Vernon Merrill]

Seems like a good potential for "PvP'ers" to find some fights and earn some money to me...  I'll never understand why people dont do escorts more...  One of the most fun fights I've had was when I lost my fully-loaded LGV trying to fight off 3 Wasas (damn Russians) with my cohorts valiantly sacrificing themselves to try and gain my escape... 

O7 @PG Monkey and @Sir Hethwill the RedDuke

 

[Archaos]

4 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

Okay, thanks for the example.

I see a very strong reason for traders to organize convoys and simulate this 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pulo_Aura

or this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali_Strait_Incident

I have no objection to convoys and I wish more people would use them, but the fact is it is almost impossible in the current game to get people to escort you unless it is some major clan movement of goods. In order to get people to do such things you would have to make trading the only way gold can be earned in the game so trading became important and the proceeds would be required to maintain warship fleets, but there would be too many people against such a system. Currently a warship can go out and fight some AI and make just as much money as a trader so why should they spend their time escorting a trader only to have to share the profit.

[z4ys]

8 minutes ago, Archaos said:

This raises an interesting point, so after the first instance the raider will drag the next battle out over an hour so he can get more PvP marks, just keeping the vessel tagged enough to keep him in battle till the timer expires and he can get more PvP marks, then rinse and repeat for the next two fleet vessels. You may doubt that will happen but I can guarantee it will happen even if it is just for trolling purposes.

Regarding what you wrote. wouldnt you lose anyway? just surrender rightaway  while your ships escaped. raider has to sail towards your lost ship while you leave the battle and sail away with the remaining ships? Giving you a huge headstart

Edited August 6, 2018 by z4ys

[sounthernrebel78]

People forget there is a recently killed tag that prevents any rewards being given if attacked while being recently killed.   Unless the raider is after the trader ships them selves there wont be any risk for the battle. 

 

This feature does however save the trader a lot of time in longer trader routes. Currently if you do not have a friendly port near by you have wasted sometime hours sailing to that port only for it to be for nothing and you lost a ship in the process.  AS A TRADER I welcome this update.

[Bluetooth]

PLEASE DONT DO THIS!

This is so flawed.

If I fight a trader and this lasts 20 mins and his fleet has escaped when I leave the instance his fleet should have had a 20 min head start and be gone.

It should not be sitting where the battle is waiting  to start to run again. This is just silly and will cripple traders and lead to less PvP not more.

As for player escorts, that's just not viable for most traders with the population as it is AND stops solo players and non clanners dead.

We should be encouraging traders not punishing them further. So now they get unlucky and not only lose some cargo but also their whole fleet!

Very bad idea.

 

 

[Hethwill]

Fair points.

We should really encourage cooperative multiplay. But how ?

[Archaos]

15 minutes ago, sounthernrebel78 said:

People forget there is a recently killed tag that prevents any rewards being given if attacked while being recently killed.   Unless the raider is after the trader ships them selves there wont be any risk for the battle. 

 

This feature does however save the trader a lot of time in longer trader routes. Currently if you do not have a friendly port near by you have wasted sometime hours sailing to that port only for it to be for nothing and you lost a ship in the process.  AS A TRADER I welcome this update.

I can say personally that a recently killed tag does not stop me from attacking a trader. If I attack a trader my aim is to take or destroy all his ships and not just the player for PvP marks. I do not class killing traders as PvP as there is really no competition unless they have an escort. I have on occasion let a players fleet escape if I felt that it is a new or relatively inexperienced player but many others would not give that consideration.

How does it save you time as basically you are guaranteed to lose all your ships as long as the raider can defeat you.

[Bluetooth]

2 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

Fair points.

We should really encourage cooperative multiplay. But how ?

How about:

Allow player to register with another player as an escort and fill in destination form. 

When they both arrive escort gets gold and or combat marks ?

[Bluetooth]

3 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I can say personally that a recently killed tag does not stop me from attacking a trader. If I attack a trader my aim is to take or destroy all his ships and not just the player for PvP marks. I do not class killing traders as PvP as there is really no competition unless they have an escort. I have on occasion let a players fleet escape if I felt that it is a new or relatively inexperienced player but many others would not give that consideration.

How does it save you time as basically you are guaranteed to lose all your ships as long as the raider can defeat you.

Agree.

I also kill whatever I can and see whats in the holds etc.

If trader loses all his cargo and his ships, crews etc, then that's a big loss.

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, Crow said:

How about:

Allow player to register with another player as an escort and fill in destination form. 

When they both arrive escort gets gold and or combat marks ?

That's a good one and straight to the point ! I can see it working.

Trader fellow uses clan chat or nation chat to find support.

Everyone sails together and trader rewards the escort guys, with gold or combat marks ! Or whatever they agree upon

I mean... why not ?  

[Macjimm]

18 minutes ago, Crow said:

If I fight a trader and this lasts 20 mins and his fleet has escaped when I leave the instance his fleet should have had a 20 min head start and be gone.

It should not be sitting where the battle is waiting  to start to run again. 

Crow makes a good point.  This change sounds very gamey and focused on forcing players into very odd PVP.

Perhaps the trader fleet can spawn at distance away from the instance point, proportional to the time spent in instance.

16 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

Fair points.

We should really encourage cooperative multiplay. But how ?

Other games provide generous rewards for multiplayer.   The payout for each player in a group is much higher than solo.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Macjimm

[Christendom]

Not really a fan of this.  As Crow says, a trader who managed to get his fleet out will just become prey again and again to the same person.  Which sounds great on paper and would increase PVP, but all it will really do is frustrate the already diminished group of people who do trade.  I would suggest changing this to ONLY ships added to fleet inside of battles are affected and cannot sail to the nearest outpost.  This would prevent players from capturing an AI and sending their ship home and then surrendering, which I think is the point.

Personally I'd rather do away with fleet completely and force players to make multiple trips on the ocean.  Make fleet perks built in and only allow fleet for ships capped in battle (with a steep crew penalty).  It's kinda bullshit I can move so much in one trip with 4 indiamen on an alt.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Christendom

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

Other games provide generous rewards for multiplayer.   The payout for each player in a group is much higher than solo.

The chances of surviving, of killing everything in our path, arriving safely, etc is already a sure reward to play multiplayer. Or... i am reading something wrong ? ( talking both, pve and pvp )

 

[Bluetooth]

29 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Personally I'd rather do away with fleet completely and force players to make multiple trips on the ocean.  Make fleet perks built in and only allow fleet for ships capped in battle (with a steep crew penalty).  It's kinda bullshit I can move so much in one trip with 4 indiamen on an alt.

I can see sense in this but the amount of time time sailing vs the rewards with no fleet, I think would put traders off and we need more targets 😀

[Bluetooth]

37 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

That's a good one and straight to the point ! I can see it working.

Trader fellow uses clan chat or nation chat to find support.

Everyone sails together and trader rewards the escort guys, with gold or combat marks ! Or whatever they agree upon

I mean... why not ?  

Ah that old chestnut......players sorting it themselves....

I was serious though. 

If you allow a trader to make money, without paying out vast amounts for escort to other players then the game benefits.

If the admiralty rewarded trader escorting, then smaller traders can have escorts and the chance of pvp is increased.

Players who are not so gifted at direct 'pvp' may feel that escorting is a rewarding task.

This will allow all traders to have escorts would allow more risky trade runs and so more pvp.

Its just an idea.

[Hethwill]

Yep, ideas

I am serious though. Being a multiplayer environment the solo choice all the time is challenging oneself more than necessary given the rules in play, but okay. To each its own, but expecting mechanics developed for multiplayer shared risk/reward to be tailored for singleplayer full risk full reward can skew things a lot.

We should test this new mechanic so the devs take their notes and make their decisions. That's all.

 

 

 

[Macjimm]

39 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

The chances of surviving, of killing everything in our path, arriving safely, etc is already a sure reward to play multiplayer. Or... i am reading something wrong ? ( talking both, pve and pvp )

 

The assistance from other players is enough reward for me.  But other games give even more.  You could receive some gold and marks simply for escorting me to my destination, and if you engage a hunter enroute you will get more marks and gold than if you were fighting solo and not on a escort mission.

Sometimes escorts get nothing for their efforts and time.  But you know that.  Thanks for your help.

[Macjimm]

1 hour ago, Christendom said:

Not really a fan of this.  As Crow says, a trader who managed to get his fleet out will just become prey again and again to the same person.  

I like to trade and it is fun to have extra fleet ships and added cargo.  Fleets are important to trading.  

But it would suck if I lost a ship and then was magically teleported back beside the same hunter that just chased me down and capped me.  If it happens for each ship in my fleet it will be just sad and weird.  Probably the best thing to do would be to log off the game for an hour till the hunter is finished.

Perhaps the fleet ships can sail away from the initial combat instance or perhaps the hunter can spawn some distance away after he/she has defeated the first ship.

Maybe allow players to just surrender all ships, including the fleet, to get it over with.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Macjimm

[Captiva]

3 hours ago, Crow said:

How about:

Allow player to register with another player as an escort and fill in destination form. 

When they both arrive escort gets gold and or combat marks ?

This is a very good idea.

The game provides a contract that can be agreed upon between players. They (the players hired) become in essence, privateers under contract with the Admiralty. Upon safe arrival at the contract destination the Admiralty pays the privateer, as compensation for safe escort of goods beneficial to the Nation.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Captiva

[Fenris]

5 minutes ago, Captiva said:

This is a very good idea.

The game provides a contract that can be agreed upon between players. They (the player hired) become in essence, privateers under contract with the Admiralty. Upon safe arrival at the contract destination, the Admiralty pays the privateer as compensation for safe escort of goods beneficial to the Nation.

Last time i suggested this, the answer was" we are not sure that this would help a game"...

We shall see.

[Sir Texas Sir]

9 hours ago, admin said:

These two features will be delivered within next 2 patches (either with port UI or right after). 

They sound great and will be nice changes, but can we not hold this next patch up by adding more things to it.  Just get the patch done and than add to it with new patches afterwards and hot fixes.  

Pluss as we been asking over and over for the last month what is the current ETA on the patch and what is the update on it as to why it's taking so long.   Would be nice to at least get an update so we know why it's taken so long.

 

#SOON

[Macjimm]

1 minute ago, Coraline Vodka said:

I would suggest if your main ship is killed in battle and fleet escape give a longer invisible timer relative to how long your fleet has been escaped otherwise there will be much griefing and other captains sailing out to sit on the battle waiting for easy targets

Good point.  Other captains will be waiting at the battles swords to kill the left overs. This change is sounding pretty depressing for traders.  But ...

But I'm ready to test it.  Perhaps it will be fine.  Often things seem to work out okay.

[Sir Texas Sir]

48 minutes ago, Coraline Vodka said:

I'll test it but I already know it will cause most frustration and will be a bad idea to literally allow someone to keep you in the same place until they get all yourships or you give up surrender them all and go play a different game

Why should they get a free trip home?  We had one of our guys get hit the other day and lost a trade ship with a bunch of goods.  We couldn't sink the guy that took it cause the ship escaped and tha would of gave him a free trip back home.  So we had to let him escape and retag him.  They weren't able to get the goods back, but we sunk the trade ship so they could only get some of the items off it.  

I get the frustraction of loosing your stuff, but get an escort and stop running without cannons folks.  9 times out of 10 when I hit a trade ship they don't have any cannons.  That 50 cargo space you loose isn't going to make you any more richer when you loose the whole ship.

 

[Powderhorn]

There is an odd sort of fatalism amongst the merchants that comes out in threads like this.

I think concerns about griefing are valid here, and would encourage a longer invisible timer if a ship is lost.

I also think merchants just like making noise about their safety - if they actually cared they would do something about it.

[Macjimm]

I can only speak for myself but:

1) I'm not wanting a free trip home.  I chose to play on the PvP rather than the PvE.  I'm okay with the risk.  BUT it really seems weird if I have to be  attacked 4 times, by the same hunter, at the same spawn point.  

2) I don't carry cannons.  I enjoy trading and fleeing.  I keep the hold at 50% for more speed.  Cannons won't help much, if I'm stupid enough to get in an instance and allow my sails to be damaged, the battle is over.  The choice to sail without cannons had nothing to do with cargo space. Paying attention and avoiding the attack is key.  But if I screw up and allow an attack to happen does it not seem reasonable that one ship is caught while the others scatter and run away.

3) As a merchant I am occasionally lucky enough to get some fighters to escort me.  Most of the time no-one is available.  But I'm a merchant, not a warship with cargo.  I use very small trade ships.  Attempts to fight back would be futile and pathetic.  Seems sad that I will be forced to watch my whole fleet be picked off one at a time.  I would rather have a chance for some ships to escape.

Wonder if trade ships could be exempt from the one-at-a-time slaughter.