More Clan Control - Reducing Alt Problems

[Charles Edward Stuart]

I think it's safe to say this has devolved from a targeted conversation into a personal debate.

[Jack Jones]

1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

This is fantastic for encouraging players to go risk their expensive ships.

Thank you.  😁

[Kawazz]

1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

Thanks for the straight answer.

It enforces my point of view.

 

I asked because that's quite a personal question, I find if funny you have the audacity to assume you should get an answer but I should not.

17 minutes ago, Ove Gjedde said:

I think it's safe to say this has devolved from a targeted conversation into a personal debate.

Agreed, this is a waste of time at this point. @Intrepido doesn't want to have a real conversation.

[Eskiwit]

So absurd to allow any clan to lock refit and sold it for very expensive price

cartagena refit and copperplating at 20 mil for exemple ^^ 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Eskiwit

[Kawazz]

18 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

LOL.

Your arguments are so weak because you dont want to lose your advantage in the game.

My points are more grounded in reality than yours are. You couldn't even take the time to respond to most of them. Instead you attempt to straw man my position by implying that I'm fearful of losing access to alts. You're trying to add fake bias to my position.

You are the bias one because you cant even see both sides of this.

So lets assume you don't have an alt, how you would know how one uses theirs?

This is the problem with your argument, your trying to act like you know how they are used but your on the outside looking in, their use isn't binary.

Plenty of people use alts for combat, trading, pvp, spying, destruction and even information gathering for some of the services I bet you use.

You want to imply that one using alts is fearful of losing this "advantage" but the truth is having access to materials doesn't make you a better captain.

They are just another character to many. A character that requires work the same as the first one. You can't buy time can you?

And for the record, I get my fine goods from epics.

Edited July 28, 2018 by koiz

[Kawazz]

7 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I know perfectly how they are used. I dont life in a buble.

Look. Im not new on this, and gear in every mmo is important. It doesnt help you being a better player but it gives you more room for mistakes. The extra thickness can save you from a deadly broadside because you didnt angle your ships how it is supposed to be and so on.

And mate please. I have seen alts wit the rank of lieutenant placing contracts worth of millions. It requires ZERO EFFORT to trade money to a new account.

 

Lol you have no idea, just a case of confirmation bias. Just because you see one thing you know all the facts...

Quote

Lots of epics you must be doing.

Yes we enjoy epics. We keep track of them better than anyone. 

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by koiz

[Norfolk nChance]

@EliteDelta

This time I just can’t agree with you. Judging by the replies ALTs are still not fully understood by all. I have a solution that might work for all, but good luck getting the Dev’s to deploy it with the summer go-slow gear fully locked in.

 

First things first...

Personally, if used correctly with the right control mechanic overlays in place ALTs are a great vehicle for any game. We have a range of views from very aggressive anti-ALT ownership to players that use the weak in game control to gain some cheating advantage. With all other views in-between these two extremes.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=917654264

Game-Labs[GL] will never ban the use of ALTs. It will only ban bad ALT behavior. This then leaves it to a control mechanic issue as I’ve stated before and is exactly the same as what YOU seal clubbers do out there. No difference. If the game offers you an over balanced reward for minor risk taken, then it will be exploited by some with bad behavior.

The combined DLC Package (ex-LeR) is roughly the same price as a new Account or in other words an ALT. This I believe was more by design than accident to help those anti-ALT players like @Intrepido to financially contribute to [GL] over their original purchase. This is a great move with counter balance and not just flags or colored sails. The 34 total redeemable parts operate like a LITE-ALT for a Solo Player thus mitigating a lot of the ALT advantage over the Solo PC. Anything past this is a mechanic issue to whatever degree.

 

A hard-won PORT...

You want the spoils of a hard-won port battle. Seeing other PCs coming in taking what they want with impunity leaves a bitter taste right? I can see that, so close the PORT to all apart from friendly clans list. Solo Players, fcuk ‘em, same Nation or allied-ish, fcuk ‘em. And if the PORT as a unique feature you simple can’t get it if your names not on the LIST. Fcuk ‘em...

There is no way in Hell this would EVER get approved. You need to balance out the Gameplay mechanic. Starting with PORT friendly clan list...

 

Balancer...

Balance starts here with Trade Income tax revenue collapsing. The volume of traders as shrunk to just those on the list. Reflects loss of AI component traders (next patches expect AI PORT trade buffs to help the currency bed in).

Second balancer now in effect. Tax level applied to PC internal PORT trades with shop or another PC auto defaults to a fixed higher level. The running costs of your PORT normally covered by the Income from trade now needs supplementing. The TAX Revenue normally received by the clan will now only receive 25% of that value.

 

Clan Port Ownership

I’ve always being a big buyer of this. The ability to improve it in all sorts of ways that reflect back in trade or safety or whatever is very important. That seems like a very distant dream looking at current progression.

Clans cannot LOCK OUT solo players of same NATION status, full stop. Same Nation Clans that are not on the list could receive a POLL TAX of an additional 20% of the original tax bill. Also, same nation not on the list PCs receive a PARKING levy on PORT entry and is recharge per server cycle per ship docked. 100% of these funds go directly to the owner clan.

 

ALTs/DLC Pack use...

You’ll probably think this doesn’t go far enough with ALTs or ALT-LITE users. I’d agree and that’s because of the control mechanic reward system against risk taken...

 

Norfolk.

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 hours ago, EliteDelta said:

I remember this problem when my clan owned Cartagena when we were in GB. The vast majority of the nation never showed up when we defended from enemy hostility or port battles, but everyone would consider it their right to be able to buy the tar. It is silly. 

Even back then we had alts from other nations competing, but it wasn't as bad as it is now. 
 

They will also be the first one to complain when you use a port but you never see them on screening or defending.   They act like it's their port too just cause they are in the same nation.

5 hours ago, Flash Jack said:

All the butt hurt control freak clans again trying dominate and squeeze every casual from the game. No casuals, no free independant players, no way for solo players to play THEIR own game.

Ultimately..

No players left.

ALTS ARE MAINLY RUN BY CLANS.

And ffs if you can't bid on stuff you don't deserve it.

 

I'm going to call BS on this right now.  You want to know where my clan gets most of it's Cart and Copper?  OW AI Trade ships and well bottles, and epic events.   While the last one needs a group of players (just same nation not clan) the others are things you get solo on your own.   SO even if a clan locks you out of a port resource in your nation there are still means to get things.

I agree clans need more control over ports they own.  I shouldn't have to out bid my own nation to get a part of the drops from that port even though I get the tax back it's beside the point.  Also any Clan that is being a dick about the main prime goods won't get support from the rest of the nation.  Way devs can fix this is make them high BR ports so you either better have a really big clan or you need to have your nation and other clans back you to defend those resources.

[Kawazz]

5 minutes ago, Norfolk nChance said:

@EliteDelta

This time I just can’t agree with you. Judging by the replies ALTs are still not fully understood by all. I have a solution that might work for all, but good luck getting the Dev’s to deploy it with the summer go-slow gear fully locked in.....

Great solutions!

Edited July 28, 2018 by koiz

[Kawazz]

Just now, Banished Privateer said:

Are you a clown? If I put you on ignore list, name change won't make you disappear from ignore list. The ignore list will update your name and I guess clans should have ignore lists too (or black lists). Infiltrating and spying has nothing really to do with eco-alt problem. You're so blind on this case with your irrelevent argues:

Still talking down to people... sad. 

Its called deleting a character or creating a new one.

Quote

- infiltrating & spying requires lots of effort & time dedicated for tasks + buying out all rare resource will look very suspicious.

It really doesn't. People are a lot more easy going than you think. Why would a good spy give themselves up by over buying? 

Quote

 - eventually spies could be exposed, kicked out, blacklisted, dealt with. Now you can't do shit about it.

That's true with the entire practice, do you think it changes the motivation to do it? No in fact it just increases the stakes that's it and there's still nothing you can do to stop it.

[Johnny Rotten]

I don't see the problem with econ alts getting mats they would otherwise need to spend months capping AI traders hoping to get the desired mats. OW AI doesn't follow a logical cargo (its random what cargo it carries iirc) so making AI traders the only source of certain mats for some nations (due to balance of PvP & PvE players in said nation) will make it near impossible to get mods for the casual player, nevermind the player with an econ alt.

If the current system is so much of an issue, I'll repeat my earlier suggestion of having some mats set aside reserved for the port owner. That would give a bit more purpose to owning a port as you will get free stuff you can use or later sell to fund the port.

[Kawazz]

1 minute ago, Banished Privateer said:

Let's say my clan only recruits max rank chars. It takes about week to 2 weeks of looots of hard work and grinding to get your brand new char to reach max level. Then again "max rank" chars created week or 2 weeks ago look suspicious. 

Another thing... are you going to be pretend being a mute or use some silly voice changer? Solid clans require everyone to use comms. You can delete your char and rename it but you can't really change your voice and make it sound legit with voice modifications. 

These are all things that can be overcome, you dont need to use silly voice changes. You really are over complicating this.

[Kawazz]

1 minute ago, Johnny Rotten said:

If the current system is so much of an issue, I'll repeat my earlier suggestion of having some mats set aside reserved for the port owner. That would give a bit more purpose to owning a port as you will get free stuff you can use or later sell to fund the port.

This really should happen, its the best solution and gives the owners something for their hard work.

[Kawazz]

Just now, Banished Privateer said:

As I said, we have mechanics, techniques and ways to fight spies and inflitration. Can you say the same about eco-alts? Thanks for the discussion.

There is no solution, that's the problem. You either have a free market or you don't. Increase production of these goods or place them in more ports but the moment you make them exclusive its more broken than some claim it is now. 

 

[Norfolk nChance]

@Banished Privateer

 

Am still tired late-night work, I just don’t understand the middle paragraph. Will look at it later. It’s totally me too tired and also away from the in-game.  I’ve missed a mechanic or play issue my fault am sure.

 

^^^ That's why RvR is irrelevent in NA and port ownership is a PUNISHMENT, not a REWARD. You're punished with expenses, you're obligated with defending and casualties, etc.

           

THIS I TOTALLY AGREE WITH...

 

Tis why @admin should read why I want @Jeheilback and read my note Comparing Apples to Oranges droll...

Otherwise my dear Pirate, if he doesn’t the only thing you’ll be able to BUY in Cartagena is Lemons.

 

Norfolk.

[Kawazz]

34 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Having AI haul actual stuff from ports it docks and undocks would make sense and be a better suggestion. For now AI cargo is fiction, sci-fi and imagination, some like to call it RNG.

If I want Cartagena Tar, I will go raid traders around Cartagena de Indias, thus additionally raising the hostility and having Swedish coast guard on my tail That's how it should work.

@koiz market or "free market" is not a binary 0-1 system, true or false. Economy is a complicated topic. You don't have one and only true "free market". You have dozens of markets labelled as "free". Some are more free, some are less. Examples:

• Laissez-faire economics

• Socialist economics (surprisingly, yes. Some socialists promoted free market their own way)

• Geoist economics

• Non-laissez-faire capitalist systems

 

Its not complicated in this sense. The scale does not compare. 

Free Market Capitalism is the only way. The moment you limit choice and ability is the moment your system is far from free.

[Johnny Rotten]

 

45 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Having AI haul actual stuff from ports it docks and undocks would make sense and be a better suggestion. For now AI cargo is fiction, sci-fi and imagination, some like to call it RNG.

If I want Cartagena Tar, I will go raid traders around Cartagena de Indias, thus additionally raising the hostility and having Swedish coast guard on my tail That's how it should work.

 

I dont think the game engine is powerful enough to handle this, but ideally that is what it should be like yes!

The only logical solution I can see is in my suggestion. It's a backwards way of solving it, but having the port owner being able to purchase/given mats/goods from a separate "shop" would at least address the issue of the owner not having access to the stuff in their own port.

Say for example, 10% of daily stock is "reserved" for the port owner. It is in their interest (if they so choose) to increase production on the port as they will be directly increasing their "stock". It also helps other players by putting more on the market for sale in the normal shop.

Edited July 28, 2018 by Johnny Rotten

[Dibbler (Retired)]

 I forsee..

 

 Master Shipwright DLC - Choice of any upgrade 1 per day

[Liq]

This would have to go hand in hand with clans being able to cap each others ports within the nation - might aswell just disband nations then and base everything off clans

Else, clan A captures one of the few teak ports and dictates the price without the rest of the nation being able to do anything about it. Nation chats should be funny then.

[Norfolk nChance]

@Liq

1 hour ago, Liq said:

This would have to go hand in hand with clans being able to cap each others ports within the nation - might aswell just disband nations then and base everything off clans

Else, clan A captures one of the few teak ports and dictates the price without the rest of the nation being able to do anything about it. Nation chats should be funny then.

 

I want a more open sandbox with a restricted Civil War mechanic etc. but you'll never get the Dev's to disband nations. The only way to solve this is having a fixed backstory underlying each main Capital region while a clan maintaining a Nation brand. 

So, using a Swedish clan as an example they invade Surrey. They can take all the PORTs apart from K/PR. The Swedes have a restricted title of "Occupation" in the taken PORTs with the GB flag remaining. They move onto Cornwall once again capture all ports. This works as normal, with all PORTs turning Swede with all rights and flag showing. 

no idea how else to do it

 

 

 

 

[Cmdr RideZ]

You can get everything else in multiple ways except one rare resource.  A clan captures the rare resource port.

This rare resource gives them advantage that the rest cannot have now.  They have money and all the rest + the rare resource port.

Tell me one good reason why they would sell this resource out from their clan?

I agree that I am and have been against rare resources as I just don't see how these are ever going to make a good game.

I would not say that bidding for rare resources and woods is good game design.

[AeRoTR]

2 hours ago, Liq said:

This would have to go hand in hand with clans being able to cap each others ports within the nation - might aswell just disband nations then and base everything off clans

Else, clan A captures one of the few teak ports and dictates the price without the rest of the nation being able to do anything about it. Nation chats should be funny then.

Realism realism, how was it in reality. It is a strategical resource, would any nation or company let it be sold at highest bidder even if they need it ? They would get the needed amount and sell remaining if they need to.

So there can be a limit %30 or %50 the owner of the port could take that amount, remaining will continue with contracts. That will give the RVR some meaning.

Best profiting port,  let's say Nassau, makes profit of 1 million gold, one of the best ports. Who gives a ... about 1 million gold, do a fleet mission for the clan, your clan will earn 3 million gold in 1 fleet mission.

Edited July 28, 2018 by AeRoTR

[Jack Jones]

ISo I'm new.

I can play 2 hours, 3 times in seven days.

I'm normal. I have a life.

I struggle with the tutorials.

I whince at the trolling chat in nation.

I get sunk by combat mission jumpers as I struggle to level up in my own waters.

I get accused of being an alt because I don't have ts.

I get excluded from port battles because I'm not in a clan.

I can't buy stuff in my own port because clans have put huge prices on everything.

I cap the odd trader and get totally random mostly junk and get sunk because ow combat stays open to long.

I log in. Sit  and watch the toxic chat a bit more. I realise that I will never be able to compete and never have the goodies others have even as a clanner I just can't dedicate my real life to this game.

I buy DLC and for a while have a bit more fun, now everyone moans about the DLC and wants it nerfed because I can nearly compete.

I log out.

I leave bad review on steam on how a few elite players have strangled the devs into making this a clan only game.

Potential new players read the reviews.....

 

 

[GhastlyGhost]

1 hour ago, Flash Jack said:

ISo I'm new.

I struggle with the tutorials.  Go train in combat mission and make them later. If you cant complete them after 100h time to change game

I get sunk by combat mission jumpers as I struggle to level up in my own waters.    They cant jump missions in Protected area.

I get accused of being an alt because I don't have ts. So go dowoload it or discord. Its only 1 min 😉

I get excluded from port battles because I'm not in a clan.  So join the clan. I dont understand this "Clan phobia" of some players.

I can't buy stuff in my own port because clans have put huge prices on everything.   Players made lot of milions by trade or in combat missions. Its not hard.

I cap the odd trader and get totally random mostly junk and get sunk because ow combat stays open to long. 🤣

 

Potential new players read the reviews.....

 Its potential review of player that should play another game, or is retarded. 

There is lot of clans that recruits new players and lern them how to survive in NA world ...

Edited July 28, 2018 by GhastlyGhost

[Fenris]

14 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Clan control stopped the recurrent and extremely damaging sabotage of port battles by alts

Wrong.

Battle group implementation stopped abuse by alts in PBs, after Cap-Francais incident a year ago, where a danish alt, which was a pirate, dragged a whole D/N PB fleet into a battle vs AI.