More Clan Control - Reducing Alt Problems

[Kawazz]

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Right now RVR is meaningless.  Everything can be done with a handful of alts and the will to spend 100 bucks on a few accounts. 

Its always going to be meaningless... Resource conquest is not enough of a reason to take ports. If it takes less work to infiltrate a clan many will take this route instead.

18 minutes ago, Christendom said:

  Seems simple IMO.  Economics will more or less settle this out as the clan owning the port will get tired of the low port income and eventually open it up to make money.

How does that change anything? If they end up opening the port whats the point.

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Koiz's points from above are irrelevant.  If you allow your clan to get infiltrated and they somehow start purchasing goods from your outpost, you got bigger problem than increased revenue.

They aren't irrelevant, alts will always impact this game. 

[Kawazz]

5 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

More kicks from clans, whats the issue?

As soon as one account is identified as an alt it will have a hard time to find a clan for him. And then, you can always ban that clan from your friend list.

Will we have some exceptions? Of course we will but, at least, it wont be so easy as it is now. NOW everyone with no effort and no clever thinking can be a spy or the guy setting a contract.

You keep assuming you know who these people are...

With name changes it doesn't matter. There is no final solution for alts. They will always impact this game.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, koiz said:

You keep assuming you know who these people are...

With name changes it doesn't matter. There is no final solution for alts. They will always impact this game.

This isn't suppose to be the end all solution for alts. I do think it would have a positive impact for the game, and it wouldn't be a difficult addition for the devs. 

[Kawazz]

1 minute ago, EliteDelta said:

This isn't suppose to be the end all solution for alts. I do think it would have a positive impact for the game, and it wouldn't be a difficult addition for the devs. 

Keep thinking that but if you want the alt wars to start this is how you do it.

[Christendom]

6 minutes ago, koiz said:

Its always going to be meaningless... Resource conquest is not enough of a reason to take ports. If it takes less work to infiltrate a clan many will take this route instead.

How does that change anything? If they end up opening the port whats the point.

They aren't irrelevant, alts will always impact this game. 

The point being, the clan who took and pays for the port SHOULD have a choice to control who has access to it.  This system would discourage 50 alts competing for Copper up at little harbor.  In the current system Clan X who owns Little Harbor has zero control over who puts contracts in their port and aren't even able to get their own resource (that they pay maintenance  fees to own) because everyone and their brother has an alt.  This should not be the case.

The infiltration into clans point is indeed irrelevant.  Clan X, who owns the port, is going to notice 15 new characters in their clan and can remove them accordingly.  If they noticed a friendly clan monopolizes the contracts, remove the clan.  If 1 person decides to infiltrate and start buying copper, well then props to that guy and in the end Clan X still makes money.  No system will be perfect, the proposed system is closer to the mark.

This isn't really a hard concept to understand.

[Kawazz]

5 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

But with this, their impact will be decreased.

I assume people can properly manage a clan. If not, they will have to learn the hard way because of the consequences.

This is one way. Perhaps you have a better one so go ahead. 

Increase production or increase the number of ports these goods are found at which is basically the same thing.

RvR will never improve because someone wants a certain good so stop assuming making it more exclusive will solve the problem.

I once agreed with you but it just wont work out, there needs to be OTHER reasons for RvR.... which based on the upcoming patch it might be happening. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by koiz

[Kawazz]

7 minutes ago, Christendom said:

The point being, the clan who took and pays for the port SHOULD have a choice to control who has access to it.  This system would discourage 50 alts competing for Copper up at little harbor.  In the current system Clan X who owns Little Harbor has zero control over who puts contracts in their port and aren't even able to get their own resource (that they pay maintenance  fees to own) because everyone and their brother has an alt.  This should not be the case.

So they can be dicks to the rest of the nation? In your clan version of the game it makes sense but we don't play that game. 

They got the port, not the resource. When did it become Lord Protector of the Goods?

You assume making it more exclusive will solve the problem but it wont, its not a hard concept to understand that an open market is better for the game. 

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If 1 person decides to infiltrate and start buying copper, well then props to that guy and in the end Clan X still makes money.  No system will be perfect, the proposed system is closer to the mark.

You don't need 15, you just need one and that's my whole point.  Whats next? Are you going to make multiple clans to serve the purpose of having separate friends lists, new recruits and the core clan?

RvR should not be hinged on someones need for a certain good... the more exclusive you make it the worse off the game is. 

[Kawazz]

15 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Increase production or increase the number of ports these goods are found at which is basically the same thing.

Wrong. Look at Esteros or Little Harbour.

What are you even trying to say here? We need more than what we have now... and we have those now.

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RvR will never improve because someone wants a certain good so stop assuming making it more exclusive will solve the problem.

Wrong again. People need their precious rare woods or their favorite upgrades ALWAYS in their ships.

And your solution is to make them more exclusive!

With your solution, you'll have clans that have stock piles and use their major advantage to hold the server hostage or you'll have a re-seller market that will just nullify the reason to go after the port in the first place.

Edited July 27, 2018 by koiz

[Jack Jones]

2 hours ago, Intrepido said:

So I conquer a port, I make a GREAT effort and I have to be happy that one alt outbidding me every single time.

Yes.

When a country or clan takes a port, the traders move in to exploit it. you get the tax if you cant beat the contract bidders.

 

[Kawazz]

2 minutes ago, Flash Jack said:

Yes.

When a country or clan takes a port, the traders move in to exploit it. you get the tax if you cant beat the contract bidders.

 

Agreed, when a clan takes a port they a responsible for maintenance and military. Improving the conditions for trading and crafting is as far as it should go in regards to impacting the economy. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by koiz

[Jack Jones]

40 minutes ago, Christendom said:

The point being, the clan who took and pays for the port SHOULD have a choice to control who has access to it.  This system would discourage 50 alts competing for Copper up at little harbor.  In the current system Clan X who owns Little Harbor has zero control over who puts contracts in their port and aren't even able to get their own resource (that they pay maintenance  fees to own) because everyone and their brother has an alt.  This should not be the case.

The infiltration into clans point is indeed irrelevant.  Clan X, who owns the port, is going to notice 15 new characters in their clan and can remove them accordingly.  If they noticed a friendly clan monopolizes the contracts, remove the clan.  If 1 person decides to infiltrate and start buying copper, well then props to that guy and in the end Clan X still makes money.  No system will be perfect, the proposed system is closer to the mark.

This isn't really a hard concept to understand.

Why should a clan control anything other than which nation can enter and what the taxes are.

That's more than enough power.

Why should a clan who owns a port decides who shops there. Smugglers and traders are a part of this game and if I want to sail into an enemy port and put up a contract I should be able to.

[Christendom]

Just now, Flash Jack said:

Why should a clan control anything other than which nation can enter and what the taxes are.

That's more than enough power.

Why should a clan who owns a port decides who shops there. Smugglers and traders are a part of this game and if I want to sail into an enemy port and put up a contract I should be able to.

Then why do anything RVR related in this game?  People need reasons to go out and attack ports.  If John Q Midshipmen can just go out and use any national port with no risk to him, whats his incentive to go get more or help keep them?

[Teutonic]

1 hour ago, Christendom said:

The point being, the clan who took and pays for the port SHOULD have a choice to control who has access to it.  This system would discourage 50 alts competing for Copper up at little harbor.  In the current system Clan X who owns Little Harbor has zero control over who puts contracts in their port and aren't even able to get their own resource (that they pay maintenance  fees to own) because everyone and their brother has an alt.  This should not be the case.

The infiltration into clans point is indeed irrelevant.  Clan X, who owns the port, is going to notice 15 new characters in their clan and can remove them accordingly.  If they noticed a friendly clan monopolizes the contracts, remove the clan.  If 1 person decides to infiltrate and start buying copper, well then props to that guy and in the end Clan X still makes money.  No system will be perfect, the proposed system is closer to the mark.

This isn't really a hard concept to understand.

That's how I see it.

The clan and their allies (friendly clan list) took the time to take the port for either location, economy, resources, whatever it may be. ultimately the port was taken to benefit the group who worked to take it.

The proposal that @EliteDelta is asking for is perfectly fine in my opinion.

If you're  clan who wants to "improve the nation" You'll have your ports be open to all players

If you're a clan who wants to focus the economy to suit you and your allied clans, then you have that option too

If you're a clan who wants to take a port for yourself and only yourself, well the option is there.

The proposed suggestion does a few things

1. Clan ownership of ports becomes more important. A clan has increased control of how their port is "governed."

If a Clan want to be independent or not "support" a nation, then they may not get support from the nation in return. Making it possibly difficult for them to hold on to their ports. Clans in nations can invite or hire other nations to take ports.

Clans can further find ways to gain trade agreements or create a relationship with other clans through means of coordination within their ports.

2. random Alts cannot exploit nation swapping for resource gain.

at this moment, if you want Tar, Copper, Live Oak, White Oak, Teak....you name it -- you have your alt go to that nation and create contracts. the Clans AND nations in question cannot stop them or do anything other than "attempt" to outbid them in a contract war. This shouldn't be happening in the first place. the Clan or Group of Clans or even the Nation wouldn't want this to happen. Clans absolutely should have more control over their ports. People are still allowed alts, but having a mechanic for clans to control their port allows for alts to be 'controlled' and stopped and the "real" players to be able to get the resources. (alts are real players though)

3. Coordinated group of Clans will do far better than a rogue Clan

This change ALSO ACTUALLY incentivizes some form of unity or coalitions. 1 Clan going off on their own, owning their ports and not allowing anyone to pick from them can cause conflict in a nation. a lonely clan isn't going to be holding anything alone for long. The change would have Clan coalitions perform far better than a rogue group AND that coalition would help support each other to grow stronger.

The groups can invite other groups or create trade through "friendly clan" lists.
Would this change divide a nation into clan conflicts? yeah probably. It already happens so I don't see what the big fuss is about and some nation randoms already complain about everything.
Would this change promote a nation of clans to work together? yeah probably.

You'd end up seeing which groups are better prepared and more willing to work with others and those who struck out on their own would need to make sure they are strong enough to be alone.

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Teutonic

[Kawazz]

6 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Then why do anything RVR related in this game?  People need reasons to go out and attack ports.  If John Q Midshipmen can just go out and use any national port with no risk to him, whats his incentive to go get more or help keep them?

 Most PBs aren't about resources... you should know that better than anyone.

If we're lucky the devs will improve RvR by next summer... if we make it.

[Christendom]

Just now, koiz said:

 Most PBs aren't about resources... you should know that better than anyone.

If we're lucky the devs will improve RvR by next summer... if we make it.

Maybe they should be.  Best PBs / Fights I've had were outside carta.  There is currently almost zero incentive to take ports for resources.  Why bother when your alt can get them.  RVR means nothing.  People barely do it.  

Which is the point of this post I think.  

[Kawazz]

10 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Maybe they should be.  Best PBs / Fights I've had were outside carta.  There is currently almost zero incentive to take ports for resources.  Why bother when your alt can get them.  RVR means nothing.  People barely do it.  

Which is the point of this post I think.  

I wouldn't agree about carta, some kills some pbs but beyond that I had better experiences at places like San Juan and even kidds.

RvR needs to be reworked, clan controls wont change it and "fighting" over resources wont change a thing. People deal too often in this game.

If this crazy solution happens I'll just end up with a clan in every nation. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by koiz

[Jack Jones]

31 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Then why do anything RVR related in this game?  People need reasons to go out and attack ports.  If John Q Midshipmen can just go out and use any national port with no risk to him, whats his incentive to go get more or help keep them?

Using your point then, Why not just takes the individual prime resource ports. Cart, copper. Etc and forget the rest.

Just own 5 or 6 ports.

RVR is about domination and conquest / battles.

If the devs hand over complete control of ports to clans then can the last person who leaves please turn the lights off.

 

[Christendom]

10 minutes ago, Flash Jack said:

Using your point then, Why not just takes the individual prime resource ports. Cart, copper. Etc and forget the rest.

Just own 5 or 6 ports.

RVR is about domination and conquest / battles.

If the devs hand over complete control of ports to clans then can the last person who leaves please turn the lights off.

 

When RVR used to matter, it was about resources.  Live oak / Strong hull ports.  We would have 20+ battles a week, full 25s on 25s throughout the various nations.  Getting those resources and/or denying them from your opponent made conquest matter.  

Conquest doesn't matter now because only a handful of ports matter in terms of creating money and pay for themselves.  None of the ports matter at all in terms of conquest.  Which is probably why RVR has been dead.

25 minutes ago, koiz said:

I wouldn't agree about carta, some kills some pbs but beyond that I had better experiences at places like San Juan and even kidds.

RvR needs to be reworked, clan controls wont change it and "fighting" over resources wont change a thing. People deal too often in this game.

If this crazy solution happens I'll just end up with a clan in every nation. 

You weren't really at Carta or the fights in that area.  I'm talking about on our current server.  Some of the best PB/Fleet actions I've had since the fine woods patch.  

Regardless of the patch, RVR keeps failing and keeps being irrelevant because of alts.  Only way to help curtail that issue is to allow port owners to restrict who goes in/out of their ports.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Christendom

[Kawazz]

16 minutes ago, Christendom said:

When RVR used to matter, it was about resources.  Live oak / Strong hull ports.  We would have 20+ battles a week, full 25s on 25s throughout the various nations.  Getting those resources and/or denying them from your opponent made conquest matter.  

Conquest doesn't matter now because only a handful of ports matter in terms of creating money and pay for themselves.  None of the ports matter at all in terms of conquest.  Which is probably why RVR has been dead.

RvR mattered when it was fun not about resources. 

The game has barely 500 people playing it and plenty of nations part of entangled alliances. 

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You weren't really at Carta or the fights in that area.  I'm talking about on our current server.  Some of the best PB/Fleet actions I've had since the fine woods patch.  

Regardless of the patch, RVR keeps failing and keeps being irrelevant because of alts.  Only way to help curtail that issue is to allow port owners to restrict who goes in/out of their ports.

Actually I was on that server but that's a story for another day. 

I've fought there plenty and your opinion doesn't discredit mine. 

Carta is not the best port in the game.

Edited July 27, 2018 by koiz

[Palatinose]

+1 @EliteDelta

[Johnny Rotten]

I would rather see clans getting a daily drop in their warehouse of the rare mats that their port owns, or maybe a reserved stock of free mats for the clan that owns the port.

[Kawazz]

3 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

And what did make it fun?

Because it just was... 

We did port battles for the sake of doing them. It was great end game content.

Nowadays we're all a bit burnt out on it looking for more content but it was plenty fun.

I'd admit even more fun with the flag system, that was in itself a whole event depending on what flag was pulled. 

[Kawazz]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Rotten said:

I would rather see clans getting a daily drop in their warehouse of the rare mats that their port owns, or maybe a reserved stock of free mats for the clan that owns the port.

THIS.

This is a fantastic compromise and honestly makes much more sense.

[Kawazz]

7 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

But we still let alts do their own thing as now.

NA must have mechanics against unfair gameplay if it doesnt want to be considered another paytowin game.

They'll always do their own thing... the more you fight it the more time wasted the more it hurts the rest of the player base. Just accept that it is what it is and move on.

Use the american drug war as a comparison, if there's a will there's a way. 

[Kawazz]

1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

Last question for you, do you have alts?

Do you have alts?