More Clan Control - Reducing Alt Problems

[Guest]

Dear Developers,

The issue of alternate accounts is getting a bit absurd, but I think there is a relatively easy solution to some of the problems they create. Now that alt accounts can very easily switch nations once a month, we are seeing more and more alts joining nations to bid on valuable items. This has been happening for a long time, but now accounts can easily be switched to whichever nation controls something important, and the actual owners of the ports can do nothing to stop the invasion.

I believe this can mostly be solved by giving clans a bit more control of their ports. Allow clans to set who is able to place buy/sell contracts in their ports.

The options could be something like this:

1. Available for all - Any player, regardless of clan, is allowed to place a buy/sell contract in the port (must still be in the same nation).

2. Allies Only - Only members of clans on the friendly list are allowed to place buy/sell contracts in the port.

3. Clan Only - Only members of the clan that controls the port are allowed to place buy/sell contracts.

Any adjustment of a ports settings would only take affect at server reset, similar to the other port controls we have now. 

By blocking alts access to compete for resources and other items, this could give conquest a bit of a kick start. Now a nation would need to either arrange a trade agreement with another nation/clan, or go out and take it for themselves. The mechanic i'm proposing wouldn't stop a smuggler from sailing into a port, and buying whatever items/resources that are available. 

Thoughts? Opinions? 

[Wallentinus]

+1

[Teutonic]

I think @Christendom will agree, in VCO we have said it multiple times. Nations are nice, but don't "work" in RvR when it comes to trying to take the rare stuff for yourself and "force other nations to fight. They don't. People believe alts are a problem and I don't disagree, and there have been a number of suggestions (like this one) that would make alts less powerful while still allowing players to have them. I just think the whole "Alts are ruining the game raw raw" is overblown.

Clans are what makes RvR...well RvR.

in any event, I fully support the ability for Clans that own ports to be able to dictate more control on their ports.

EDIT:

Some issues I see with how agreements can be made between groups. In many cases, both parties or clans (if they have been fighting for a long time) will not even come to the table in making an agreement. A lot of these "non-starters" for agreements happen because one group says "Can your whole nation agree?...no? then we can't do it."

Edited July 27, 2018 by Teutonic

[Kawazz]

15 minutes ago, EliteDelta said:

Dear Developers,

The issue of alternate accounts is getting a bit absurd, but I think there is a relatively easy solution to some of the problems they create. Now that alt accounts can very easily switch nations once a month, we are seeing more and more alts joining nations to bid on valuable items. This has been happening for a long time, but now accounts can easily be switched to whichever nation controls something important, and the actual owners of the ports can do nothing to stop the invasion.

I believe this can mostly be solved by giving clans a bit more control of their ports. Allow clans to set who is able to place buy/sell contracts in their ports.

The options could be something like this:

1. Available for all - Any player, regardless of clan, is allowed to place a buy/sell contract in the port (must still be in the same nation).

2. Allies Only - Only members of clans on the friendly list are allowed to place buy/sell contracts in the port.

3. Clan Only - Only members of the clan that controls the port are allowed to place buy/sell contracts.

Any adjustment of a ports settings would only take affect at server reset, similar to the other port controls we have now. 

By blocking alts access to compete for resources and other items, this could give conquest a bit of a kick start. Now a nation would need to either arrange a trade agreement with another nation/clan, or go out and take it for themselves. The mechanic i'm proposing wouldn't stop a smuggler from sailing into a port, and buying whatever items/resources that are available. 

Thoughts? Opinions? 

Does this really need to be repeated again?

I hate to say it but its been suggested several times already. 

The one issue with all of this is what happens when alts get into allies or the clans that control it ?

It wont stop with them just switching nations, alts find a way...

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by koiz

[Vernon Merrill]

Better idea.  Remove alts 

#oneplayeroneaccount

#playthegameasintended

#whywecanthavenicethings

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

Rather make it harder for them alts and flippers that @EliteDelta is suggesting than do nothing. Clans do need more control like @Teutonic suggests but I still have some national elements still available.

[Kawazz]

3 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Answer: you remove those players from your clan. And if an allied clan has alts, you remove that clan until they fix their shit.

 

Easy.

Major Misconception its not "Easy", how do you even know they are alts?

[Kawazz]

1 minute ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Better idea.  Remove alts 

#oneplayeroneaccount

#playthegameasintended

#whywecanthavenicethings

lol #nevergonnnahappen

[AeRoTR]

Make this option avaliable. 

My clan and another ally, we capture a port. Than all the nation and alts keep putting contracts on let's say the rare wood. Hey were where they during the fight. 

At least give option for the owner to control at least half of the dropped good. Same true for nation, I want to distribute the rare good the the leaders of active clans in my nation! May be free... 

It is our port, we can sell the good if we want to or even give it free 

What is the harm in this? 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

Make this option avaliable. 

My clan and another ally, we capture a port. Than all the nation and alts keep putting contracts on let's say the rare wood. Hey were where they during the fight. 

At least give option for the owner to control at least half of the dropped good. Same true for nation, I want to distribute the rare good the the leaders of active clans in my nation! May be free... 

It is our port, we can sell the good if we want to or even give it free 

What is the harm in this? 

I remember this problem when my clan owned Cartagena when we were in GB. The vast majority of the nation never showed up when we defended from enemy hostility or port battles, but everyone would consider it their right to be able to buy the tar. It is silly. 

Even back then we had alts from other nations competing, but it wasn't as bad as it is now. 
 

[Kawazz]

2 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

They dont participate in any clan activity, no TS, always at their own or in trading rounds...

 

It is not so hard, fortunately we have a brain to distinguish.

You make a lot of assumptions. But sadly you are missing the mark on this one.

People will create identities to infiltrate.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Clan control stopped the recurrent and extremely damaging sabotage of port battles by alts.

This proposal (made before by Lars) is the logical continuation to solve this issue.

I tries looking for other people suggesting the same thing, but couldn't find anything. Thanks for mentioning that Lars suggested it first. 

[Guest]

Just now, koiz said:

You make a lot of assumptions. But sadly you are missing the mark on this one.

People will create identities to infiltrate.

Honestly that doesn't bother me. Being a spy or double agent could happen, but that's not the main issue. Right now any person with an alt can roll their account to sweden and equally compete with CABAL and the other swedes for cartagena tar. I just think there should be a way to limit this. The controlling clan should be able to decide who has access.

[Kawazz]

25 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Clan control stopped the recurrent and extremely damaging sabotage of port battles by alts.

This proposal (made before by Lars) is the logical continuation to solve this issue.

You think it was alts causing the sabotage? Oh funny. IT WAS PLAYER'S MAINS. There are more butt hurt clan leaders in this game than one can count. I can remember Wilmington before the wipe, a certain clan joined the battle taking spots that were meant for others. Their excuse was "ITS THE USA PORT BATTLE NOT YOUR CLANS" those people went on to cost us the battle.

Edited July 27, 2018 by koiz

[Kawazz]

Just now, EliteDelta said:

Honestly that doesn't bother me. Being a spy or double agent could happen, but that's not the main issue. Right now any person with an alt can roll their account to sweden and equally compete with CABAL and the other swedes for cartagena tar. I just think there should be a way to limit this. The controlling clan should be able to decide who has access.

Gotta remove contracts.

[Charles Edward Stuart]

+1 the OP.

[Jack Jones]

All the butt hurt control freak clans again trying dominate and squeeze every casual from the game. No casuals, no free independant players, no way for solo players to play THEIR own game.

Ultimately..

No players left.

ALTS ARE MAINLY RUN BY CLANS.

And ffs if you can't bid on stuff you don't deserve it.

 

[Kawazz]

7 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Alts are bots or what? Of course alts are players.

The US drama is very sad but this proposal will cut down by half the current economy sabotaging by alts.

Mains not alts at the time. The USA will never get better. Its like a messed up version of the matrix where everyone keeps doing the same thing. Manual sailing still escapes 90% of that nation.

I dont think it will. We need to remove contracts for this to work. The idea that I can place a contract is the true problem. Hell,  you even agreed that the ports need to drop more to begin with and that could even help with this issue. 

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by koiz

[Jack Jones]

4 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

What?

So I conquer a port, I make a GREAT effort and I have to be happy that one alt outbidding me every single time. Simply because the other had the money to pay for another account (NA as another PTW game?).

ALTS ARE RUN BY EVERYONE WITH THE CASH AND WILL TO HAVE EVERYTHING IN THE GAME IN AN EASY WAY.

 

Solo players or pvp players can buy those upgrades or ressources from other players or devs could implement "mirror" upgrades which you can buy in the admiralty by pvp marks.

 

 

This will kill trade dead.  

All players with alts will do is infiltrate clans more cleverly. 

We have alts in our clan.

This will do nothing it will do nothing for the alt situation It will only harm an already struggling economy.

[Kawazz]

5 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Along this 2 years of development I have made a lot of bets of which things were going to work (in RvR) and those which werent. Overall, I made very few mistakes.

I strongly believe this is going to be a good thing for the game. Will it solve RvR once and for all? No, but it will be a step forward.

But you think Contracts are good?

I rather have this along with clan controls.

• More fine resources drop (Which can create a second market if a clan/alliances decide to control it all anyway increasing their gold while making sure they are all equipped)
• No contracts, be at the port to get your goods. (increasing open world activity)

Contracts are like cutting the line or like paying someone to hold a spot for you until it becomes available.

Edited July 27, 2018 by koiz

[Kawazz]

1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

I have faith you can be more clever than others in this simple task of accepting new players in your clan.

Already struggling economy? I have seen players posting on global chat that they own 150 millions and have enough upgrades to equip all the server.

Did you play Eve? Ever read the history of it?

Alts/Spies and infiltration might as well be an official part of the game's description. Its never planned but it happens and happens in this game.

[Kawazz]

14 minutes ago, Flash Jack said:

This will kill trade dead.  

All players with alts will do is infiltrate clans more cleverly. 

We have alts in our clan.

This will do nothing it will do nothing for the alt situation It will only harm an already struggling economy.

100% agree.

[GhastlyGhost]

But its not Eve. Yes infiltration will be always in sandbox game and shouldn`t be forbidden. But its doesn`t mean that we shouldn`t fight with this. More clan control over the owned port will be step in right direction. If Clan A B and C Coperate to cap port Z they should have influence who can trade. Its`s called embargo.

[Kawazz]

Just now, GhastlyGhost said:

But its not Eve. Yes infiltration will be always in sandbox game and shouldn`t be forbidden. But its doesn`t mean that we shouldn`t fight with this. More clan control over the owned port will be step in right direction. If Clan A B and C Coperate to cap port Z they should have influence who can trade. Its`s called embargo.

Yes but, it can be compared to Eve. What has already happened in this game is very similar to what has happened in Eve's past even surpassing it some cases.

There's no embargo when my alt is in your clan. Its as simple as that. Like @Flash Jack said it will just drive more people to the practice. 

[Christendom]

Right now RVR is meaningless.  Everything can be done with a handful of alts and the will to spend 100 bucks on a few accounts.    

It was no real shocker that right after Russia took Cartagena, there was a startling amount of new Russian midshipmen and an odd lack of them in Sweden.  It actually got so bad that in the month or 2 we owned Carta, I think I put maybe 1 contract in.  Alts just drove the price up (which is great for the owners, bad if you actually want the item).  

If RVR and ports are ever going to matter in this game, we need a dynamic shift away from a Nation system towards a clan based one.  Clans own the port, clans pay absurd maintenance costs for the ports.....they should be able to determine which clans can get in.  Put the option in there for clans to allow the entire nation, just friendly clans or FFA.  Seems simple IMO.  Economics will more or less settle this out as the clan owning the port will get tired of the low port income and eventually open it up to make money.

Koiz's points from above are irrelevant.  If you allow your clan to get infiltrated and they somehow start purchasing goods from your outpost, you got biggers problem than increased revenue.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Christendom