Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
Arngill

Hugging exploit

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

they care and have been considering the ideas from players. It's just not their focus right now. If they add it back its not gonna be the half feature it was before

I have understood that the current NA is meant to be unbalanced but I hope you are right. They should at least then inform that balance was lost but they are working on it and/or have plans to fix it.

Current End Game:

Few good wood types/books/upgrades/ships/builds

Old End Game:

Many good wood types/upgrades/ships/builds/roles

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

I have understood that the current NA is meant to be unbalanced but I hope you are right. They should at least then inform that balance was lost but they are working on it and/or have plans to fix it.

Current End Game:

Few good wood types/books/upgrades/ships/builds

Old End Game:

Many good wood types/upgrades/ships/builds/roles

I'm not sure if they yet realize it, or if they know balance is messed up but don't think it's an immediate problem. Wasa was a big eye opener at attempting to balance now and not later, took a few months for that ship to get it's proper classing. Before that it pretty much ran OW and PBs being a great budget ship, it was very clearly OP on the test bed.

We'll see how it goes, it is confirmed a complete mod overhaul is due for one of the next patches, That'll improve combat balance but OW ship balance will still need addressing. Bellonas are too easy to get with pvper marks, and DLC ships are a minor plague on shallows compared to other shallow draft ships. Having lots of ships in circulation isnt necessary, but there's no variety and it seems all ships are built the same, lots of useless woods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

I'm not sure if they yet realize it, or if they know balance is messed up but don't think it's an immediate problem.

We'll see how it goes, it is confirmed a complete mod overhaul is due for one of the next patches

Not reading the forum that much as before. Can you paste me a link to this mod overhaul post?

I understood that the new would be slot per location. Rudder, Rigging, Hull, etc. ?

Not sure if they are interested to address abysmal balance or simply create unbalanced BIS system.

They would also need to balance the new combat features that are clearly out of balance.

Admin should really start sailing Renommee in PvP and think why it was useful before and what could be its role today, how to bring it back in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Not reading the forum that much as before. Can you paste me a link to this mod overhaul post?

I understood that the new would be slot per location. Rudder, Rigging, Hull, etc. ?

Not sure if they are interested to address abysmal balance or simply create unbalanced BIS system.

They would also need to balance the new combat features that are clearly out of balance.

Admin should really start sailing Renommee in PvP and think why it was useful before and what could be its role today, how to bring it back in the game.

He mentions it here 

 

Renomee use to be the main ship I sailed, I used it in fleet engagements to quickly grab the wind, and keep groups of enemies tagged and contained. It had fast base stats, which made it able to keep infront of the bellonas and constitutions that made up the bulk of PVP. Now you can get pretty much any ship to speedcap with the right setup, there's no longer a need for a small ship with inheritly good speed qualities, there are bigger more powerful ships that fill the role of corvette better than renomee or similar ships can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

Renomee use to be the main ship I sailed...

Thank you from the link.
You are my new best buddy here. I know there are more people who know how the game was and is but you actually write about it.


Cookie Cutter Bellona(CCB) defines the build options for 4th and 5th rates. All ships that are smaller than CCB should be compared vs CCB and see what kind of build options there are. I would assume that CCB pretty much makes 4th and 5th rates obsolete. This should be fixed.  Devs should check these values and see that there are lot of good ship options and builds. Probably nerf SOLs so that those ships become viable.


They should remove waterline headshots. It is simply sad that ships sink with one broadside. This is over kill feature and should be changed. They could have gone with more crew bound to survival and longer leak repair times but this, this is simply too much.  Not fun.


CCB has tons of masts and chain damage.  Devs should check rigging damage and durability again.  Renommee simply cannot handle this kind of damage which makes it basically useless.  Chain damage, sail and masts values are bad?


Chain damage is also forced to be high as masts come down so easily, else those would be useless. Rigging damage often also used to force players to repair rigging so that they cannot repair hull in X minutes. The tactical depth of Naval Action.


Rum is needed only because somewhere there in history rake from one cannon killed 1000000000 men and this one specific situation has to be possible in game as well. They should go less than historical values as ships are more maneuverable. Also historical values may not be as playable as less realistic values.


Repair kits are probably the worst patch ever. It really made NA for dummies. There is only one tactic in this game and it is to be aggressive or else your enemy will simply repair. This is terrible for small fleets that try to fight vs bigger fleets. This is good for small gank fleets as they can repair rigging continuously.
Admin tried to make it look better by adding night and day in battles. It was more realistic and playable when we had 1+1. Admin should just admit that it did not go well and fix this.
Having repair kits in the hold, calculating how many you need, decrease speed, etc. Ok, cool, but is this actually improving something?  This is not improving anything. The game was more playable when you had X amount of repair kits magically with you and focus in fights.
Combat ships having cargo holds also nerfed traders.

Higher damage -> More repair kits we need -> More we can do mistakes -> more for dummies, more aggressive -> less viable tactics, less realistic gameplay

Realistic mast damage, unrealistic accuracy - Fixed with unrealistic repair kits. Maybe I missed something here. This goes with rake, cannon, crew damage as well.
Repair kits are an economy/money sink feature. Economy wrecking the combat.


Hull damage decreasing ship speed. This is direct nerf for smaller ships with less hull hp and dps. Making it even more difficult for Renommee to be viable in PvP.


Boarding is too easy, too fast, too efficient. Broken as hell. Speed of ships has been decreasing continuously, tacking slows ships now even more than before. This is based more on gear than anything else in this game. Boarding is broken.


Poods, Kirimati, etc..  Admin should be ashamed. Are these special upgrades the way they balance 5th rates?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked the idea here of making the marines usefull not only in boarding...  it would also be a realistic option... if you come within musket range of a ship you take crew damage based on the number of marines the ship has... so the player actually has to decide if its worth loosing a slot to marines just for the case something like this happens... and it should be a general thing not just against smaller ships... ship has marines they fire if you get to close.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/16/2018 at 5:26 PM, z4ys said:

What is the current range pb ships face each other? is it still 200-100?

What will be the range of auto musket fire? 0-150m?

So pounding first rates will constanly be under musket fire of each other.

What will be the dmg to crew over time? 5 crew every 10 sec?

So we end up with ghost ships before the ships would actually sink

It would reduce combat speed because reloading with 0 crew is slow

 

So will it be a game improvement? Convince me.

The Muskets in those days weren‘t really acurate, so I don‘t see much of a problem with this idea, in fact I think it would be nice to have just because of the fact we always talk about „realism“ and even don‘t have the most simple things in game.

Marines are on board to shoot the guys on the other ship and spare sailors wouldn‘t just chill too. So it‘s just logical to have this function and they should start shooting all by themselve, except I tell them not to shoot.

Any small ship that gets close to a 1st Rate should be devastated. But it should not be insta win, like I said, those muskets were rather inaccurate. But at least the morale should drop and some people should get killed. 

Ships like Victory had more Marines on Board than the whole Crew of a Snow was.

I understand that it’s funny and nice for the Ego of Captains who sink or capture a 1st Rate with a 6th Rate ship...but honestly in my opponion, with the talk about realism and so on there shouldn‘t even be a discussion about this feature because they had Marines and Muskets and we have Marines and Muskets...we wan‘t the most realistic game we can get so our marines and sailors should do what we have them for: Fight against the enemy with all available weapons. Maybe make it so we have to buy the muskets too.

And I don‘t think it would be insta win for big ships or crew decimated before they sink. Just don‘t get to close and like others said, only open decks would be affected. And like I said before, at bigger ranges there wouldn‘t be much impact because of inaccuracy of the weapons and not to forget the ships move around too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/16/2018 at 12:01 PM, z4ys said:

tbh nobody can turn a xebec into the wind when it has pirate rig refit.

Chainshot it, especially if in a Santi or L'Ocean, bye bye masts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is part of history that smaller ships did take larger ships, sometimes dramatically larger. Didn't the SPEEDY (a brig) under two different captains capture 2 frigates and the Gamo 32 gun zebec-frigate? Point being, history allows for such events. I wonder if a 6th rate ever took a 4th rate though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Preechur Blackheart said:

It is part of history that smaller ships did take larger ships, sometimes dramatically larger. Didn't the SPEEDY (a brig) under two different captains capture 2 frigates and the Gamo 32 gun zebec-frigate? Point being, history allows for such events. I wonder if a 6th rate ever took a 4th rate though...

One of the few exceptions to the rule.

We should not make exceptions the rule in NA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Using muskets on close ships could be a button like guns and sails, you can send crew there, but this crew is missing on other stations.... 

This would make the close range musket fire more an active decision of the player, with all consequences. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sea Archer said:

Using muskets on close ships could be a button like guns and sails, you can send crew there, but this crew is missing on other stations.... 

This would make the close range musket fire more an active decision of the player, with all consequences. 

Looks good to me.

For me hugging tactics destroys the realism NA combat system is so proud of.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/25/2018 at 3:52 PM, Sea Archer said:

Using muskets on close ships could be a button like guns and sails, you can send crew there, but this crew is missing on other stations.... 

This would make the close range musket fire more an active decision of the player, with all consequences. 

that's exactly how people's expectations are when they first play the game. then they realize shortly after that this game has lost the mark with combat. (ramming, repairs, unlimited grape, no swivels, no musketry, no fireships.)

and then they forget it about it until someone who is more with what things are in expectation to real life comes and reminds everyone hey remember this is the dream and half are dazed and confused and the other half is angry that it's been years and the expectation has not been met.

Edited by Slim McSauce

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In much simple and smaller, even hello kittying mobile games, I've seen small arms fire at close range from ships. Muskets, grenades and other small arms should be available during battle not only during boarding. If you had a buttons or a key to press to fire small arms at close ranges with a c/d this nonsense would not happen. Not to mention the broadside weight of a 1st rate alone should demolish any approaching small ship. Cannon balls in this game act like bullets and even leave bullet holes on ships as they hit... it's kind of a joke. Even games made 10 years ago did better than that. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, but if they're hugging you, surely you can just load a broadside of chain and utterly savage their sails? Its not like they're too low to hit. Then while they're dealing with that loss of speed, you give them a broadside of ball and make chickenwire out of their hull?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Tindahbawx said:

Sorry, but if they're hugging you, surely you can just load a broadside of chain and utterly savage their sails? Its not like they're too low to hit. Then while they're dealing with that loss of speed, you give them a broadside of ball and make chickenwire out of their hull?

Let me know how that works for you 😉

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Tindahbawx said:

Sorry, but if they're hugging you, surely you can just load a broadside of chain and utterly savage their sails? Its not like they're too low to hit. Then while they're dealing with that loss of speed, you give them a broadside of ball and make chickenwire out of their hull?

You have no idea.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/16/2018 at 7:35 AM, Le Raf Boom said:

They should allow the crew on 1st rates to simply drop cannonballs onto the smaller vessel and sink it that way.

Seriously though it might have happened in history at some point or another and under very specific conditions, this game is far removed from reality anyway with the pushing, hugging, turning your bow/stern toward the enemy to glance shots etc etc. There is nothing realistic about this combat.

Lol, that's an interesting idea. I wonder if anyone ever tried that in real life.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/16/2018 at 1:20 PM, Banished Privateer said:

But if it goes faster, it means it was shaken off from hugging. If not, it gets boarded. It's funny how people using 1st rates complain about small ships that can literally die from ONE broadside. The 1st rate will never die from a single broadside, it usually takes 30 minutes, sometimes a full 1:30h fight. @admin once posted a painting of a smaller ship hugging bigger ship, so the bigger vessel couldn't hit it. It's a valid tactic that was used in Age of Sail. 

Sorry this is just another BS mechanic and i call Hugging with smaller ships vs much bigger ships abusing an exploit !!!

...like so many exploits in the past and interesting to see that in most cases, the same people use EVERY broken mechanic to their advantage, dont feel ashamed a tiny bit and then came to forum to defend an obviously broken game design because they use it to their advantage...

 

Never watched something like this in such an extent in a Multiplayer game...and this wants to be a grown audience... :(

 

Funny to see that i watched today a video from @rediii  in which he also used (i call it abuse) this mechanic to hug your Santissima to death...and he didnt lost more than half of his armor doing so

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

My Santi was swarmed by a bunch of ships, there is no mechanic that would save me. I see nothing wrong about it, killed by a zerg.

Yeah, but during the whole fight, @rediii was hugging you and your broadsides were most times directed to him...even when he would had been alone, i doubt that you could have won the fight because he got barely any damage from your broadsides...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sir Max Magic said:

Yeah, but during the whole fight, @rediii was hugging you and your broadsides were most times directed to him...even when he would had been alone, i doubt that you could have won the fight because he got barely any damage from your broadsides...

If he was alone, that would be an easy fight. I already won 1v3 and 1v2 1st rate vs Hercs against good players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...