DLC ships

[Hethwill]

Just now, Lovec1990 said:

It looks like some players like too be ganked by 3 crafted ships or more than being attacked by one DLC ship

Ah gotcha. Thanks for making it more clear.

[Jack Jones]

2 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

then no events for crafted ships also

I agree with a lot of your points on dlc ships but if you restrict some of their activities i think it will balance out a bit better.

[Lovec1990]

altrough my view still stands Herc and req as first DLC ships was wrong move

[Lovec1990]

Just now, Flash Jack said:

I agree with a lot of your points on dlc ships but if you restrict some of their activities i think it will balance out a bit better.

not really i belive only problem is that current DLC ships are OP if ships were good and balanced and not OP we would not have this talk 

[Slim McSauce]

9 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Was done with all other ships before DLC.

A "ganking " squadron of 3/5 shop ships could achieve the same exact results.

We are missing a big point here... no sure what to be honest....

That one of those carries an ingame and contributes to the overall world (ships you buy from other players, that reciprocate the whole economy)
And the other is a lazy mans means of a quick fix, the TL:DR of a well written idea. Just look at all these pvp junkies who come out of the woodwork to righteously defend their so called right to benefit more than anybody, while giving back very little to the game and it's players. The underline motivation for DLC ships is a selfish one, if you wanted quick battles you could always buy ships anywhere, or TP a ship over. People only buy DLC ships so they can rake and farm PVP marks. Period. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Lovec1990]

1 minute ago, Slim McSauce said:

That one of those carries an ingame and contributes to the overall world (ships you buy from other players, that reciprocate the whole economy)
And the other is a lazy mans means of a quick fix, the TL:DR of a well written idea. Just look at all these pvp junkies who come out of the woodwork to righteously defend their so called right to benefit more than anybody, while giving back very little to the game and it's players. The underline motivation for DLC ships is a selfish one, if you wanted quick battles you can buy it anywhere, or TP a ship over.

LoL look let me give you some info: If people buy DLC content that includes ships devs will get more money whit witch they can hire more people so we all could get new ships(craftable,...) and content faster 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Lovec1990 said:

LoL look let me give you some info: If people buy DLC content that includes ships devs will get more money whit witch they can hire more people so we all could get new ships(craftable,...) and content faster 

So since you intentions are so generous you won't mind when they're made into blueprints? Or cost 300k for each redeem, or can only be redeemed in a capital port? You wouldn't want all the money going into rebalancing the economy to go to waste over half of the players not using anything besides redeemable ships.

There's stuff going on outside the battles aswell.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Jack Jones]

9 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

not really i belive only problem is that current DLC ships are OP if ships were good and balanced and not OP we would not have this talk 

The ships are fine imho.

It's the stackable mods which are unbalanced on these ships because they are such specialist ships.

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Flash Jack

[Hethwill]

3 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

That one of those carries an ingame and contributes to the overall world (ships you buy from other players, that reciprocate the whole economy)

Shop ships, not player crafted.

You know, 70k Frigates, not 700k.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Hethwill said:

Shop ships, not player crafted.

You know, 70k Frigates, not 700k.

You'd have to be pretty desperate to use a store bought ship for PVP, even in a gank. Also if I'm not mistaken ships that aren't bought or crafted in port don't contribute to taxes, so by only using DLC ships you're subsequently denying RVR the ability to sustain itself with ports getting no income.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Jack Jones]

2 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

over half of the players not using anything besides redeemable ships

Slim.....where are you sailing where half the players are in DLC ships.

Must be lots of PvP.🙄

I

[Lovec1990]

1 minute ago, Slim McSauce said:

So since you intentions are so generous you won't mind when they're made into blueprints? Or cost 300k for each redeem, or can only be redeemed in a capital port?

blueprints would not sell good as ship does plus you still need too buy cannons why would i pay 300k for each reedem it would not help economy at all?

 

[Lovec1990]

1 minute ago, Flash Jack said:

Slim.....where are you sailing where half the players are in DLC ships.

Must be lots of PvP.🙄

I

at KPR most ships i see are crafted

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

You'd have to be pretty desperate to use a store bought ship for PVP, even in a gank. Also if I'm not mistaken ships that aren't bought or crafted in port don't contribute to taxes, so by only using DLC ships you're subsequently denying RVR the ability to sustain itself with ports getting no income.

Holy Mary the Mermaid Virgin Maiden with Carronade Shot Size Breasts...

No offence intended, but are you for real !?... NPC shop ships are more than capable enough. Maybe not "competitive meta" but still they will get the job done - login, press sail, gank someone, whatever outcome was a good NA session.

Look, I am an adamant hardcore sim guy, would love a grognard NA, but making peace with the universe is sometimes a good thing.

 

 

[GhastlyGhost]

1 minute ago, Lovec1990 said:

blueprints would not sell good as ship does plus you still need too buy cannons why would i pay 300k for each reedem it would not help economy at all?

Nobody will buy DLC to this game if we dont have real content. At least blueprints will not broke war eco. 

[Lovec1990]

1 minute ago, GhastlyGhost said:

Nobody will buy DLC to this game if we dont have real content. At least blueprints will not broke war eco. 

DLC ships do not brake war eco at all you still need too buy cannons, mods and repairs.

Question whats the diffrence of NPC bought ship compared too DLC ship?

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Hethwill said:

Holy Mary the Mermaid Virgin Maiden with Carronade Shot Size Breasts...

No offence intended, but are you for real !?... NPC shop ships are more than capable enough. Maybe not "competitive meta" but still they will get the job done - login, press sail, gank someone, whatever outcome was a good NA session.

Look, I am an adamant hardcore sim guy, would love a grognard NA, but making peace with the universe is sometimes a good thing.

Dude you're putting words into my mouth. I never said you couldn't gank in storeboughts. That's far from the point. If I buy a store bought, I did it because I was desperate, and because there was no player crafted ships for sale in the port. 

It's even less effort, and to the upmost benefit of myself if I, Slim McSauce, was instead able to just have a ship appear at port for me at any time instead of having to buy some peasants crafted ship, I have the baseline of free DLC ships to get pvp marks which turns into PVP ship notes. Why would I ever buy a regular ship for PVP when they fall out of my ass every time I hickup? If there's no player ships there to begin with, what motivation is there for a crafter to move in when the people who pvp from there are spawning hercs/reqs bellos and Wasas?

[Lovec1990]

2 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Dude you're putting words into my mouth. I never said you couldn't gank in storeboughts. That's far from the point. If I buy a store bought, I did it because I was desperate, and because there was no player crafted ships for sale in the port. 

It's even less effort, and to the upmost benefit of myself if I, Slim McSauce, was instead able to just have a ship appear at port for me at any time instead of having to buy some peasants crafted ship, I have the baseline of free DLC ships to get pvp marks which turns into PVP ship notes. Why would I ever buy a regular ship for PVP when they fall out of my ass every time I hickup? If there's no player ships there to begin with, what motivation is there for a crafter to move in when the people who pvp from there are spawning hercs/reqs bellos and Wasas?

PvP ship note issue is another one and its correct but let first find a solution for DLC ships that all like

Edited July 23, 2018 by Lovec1990

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Dude you're putting words into my mouth. I never said you couldn't gank in storeboughts. That's far from the point. If I buy a store bought, I did it because I was desperate, and because there was no player crafted ships for sale in the port. 

It's even less effort, and to the upmost benefit of myself if I, Slim McSauce, was instead able to just have a ship appear at port for me at any time instead of having to buy some peasants crafted ship, I have the baseline of free DLC ships to get pvp marks which turns into PVP ship notes. Why would I ever buy a regular ship for PVP when they fall out of my ass every time I hickup? If there's no player ships there to begin with, what motivation is there for a crafter to move in when the people who pvp from there are spawning hercs/reqs bellos and Wasas?

Gotcha.

I'm binary on that regard. All or nothing. Not cherry picking. Go full hardcore or not at all.

[Slim McSauce]

2 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

PvP ship issue is another one and its correct but let first find a solution for DLC ships that all like

They're the same fundamental issue. Bypassing economy at the detriment to market cohesion and player interaction.

There's no solution that won't anger people who feel bought into the promise of a free timed redeemable. A volatile trap this whole DLC fiasco has been, this is why if you're gonna do microtransactions, make them cosmetic and not hugely impact balance of everything.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[GhastlyGhost]

4 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

DLC ships do not brake war eco at all you still need too buy cannons, mods and repairs. Are you serious with this sentence ?

Question whats the diffrence of NPC bought ship compared too DLC ship? You dont see the difference  ?

Ok.....

I dont have time to be a next player that elaborate why Note ships kill war eco. It make no sense because you will not read this. 

At this point I end this discussion. 

Fair winds.

[Lovec1990]

2 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

They're the same fundamental issue. Bypassing economy at the detriment to market cohesion and player interaction.

There's no solution that won't anger people who feel bought into the promise of a free timed redeemable. A volatile trap this whole DLC fiasco has been, this is why if you're gonna do microtransactions, make them cosmetic and not hugely impact balance of everything.

 

If  dlc ships would not be OP and be balanced for example Santa cecilia witch is more eye candy would it be diffrent thing?

 

@GhastlyGhost just for you:

1.)DLC ships do not brake war eco at all you still need too buy cannons, mods and repairs. Are you serious with this sentence ? Yes i am meybe you get less from ship but people who buy DLC ships are more willing to PvP and from more battles you get more into eco.

2.)Question whats the diffrence of NPC bought ship compared too DLC ship? You dont see the difference  ? There is none players do not get any tax money from buying NPC ship same as DLC ship

[John Jacob Astor]

On 7/21/2018 at 10:59 PM, Crow said:

Yes you are.

26k is nothing. ( you get 40k + for hitting AI trader brig in 5 mins) (plus it's cargo)

If you sink you lose all mods you put on ship. Same if you sell it.

So..your saying people will buy dlc to 'farm' 26k per day in the hope they craft a good one. So if it takes 7 days they make 182k and don't sail their dlc ship at all and if they do, they don't fit any mods.

 

 

Why bother putting mods on it?  Just clobber a player trader for PvP rewards, sell it a bit of cash, and churn a new one out the next day in hopes of a ship with more capabilities.  The churn in the real incentive.  But getting cash in the process doesn't help.  It just adds to the incentive to churn the DLC.

The 24 hour respawn is the problem.  It makes them a disposable ship.  If you are using mods that might make you more conservative, but a lot of folks might not even bother with them.

The disposabilty adds a new structural problem to the economy.  It cuts into demand for player-crafted ships.  A month after DLC introduction ships are sitting in the Charleston market a good deal longer than they used to.

Address the disposable nature of the DLCs and I suspect this might mitigate some of the port battle issues as well.  I am guessing some of the tactics described are not dependent on having upgrades.  Just on using a ship you can replace the next day.

The respawn clock ought to be tied to what the ship can get in terms of bonus.  So many days since the last.  Just to be clear, not since you last had one, but so many days since you last redeemed one.  I don't have an opinion on how many days, but at a minimum, next day, zero bonuses.  For that matter, a churned ship should be a sub-par ship.  Too many days in a row and the quality drops to zero knowledge and upgrade slots.

Which is not going to affect players that spend money and crafting effort on upgrades.  You aren't the ones churning the DLCs.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Marcus Corvus
clarification

[Jack Jones]

3 hours ago, Marcus Corvus said:

Why bother putting mods on it?  Just clobber a player trader for PvP rewards, sell it a bit of cash, and churn a new one out the next day in hopes of a ship with more capabilities.  The churn in the real incentive.  But getting cash in the process doesn't help.  It just adds to the incentive to churn the DLC.

The 24 hour respawn is the problem.  It makes them a disposable ship.  If you are using mods that might make you more conservative, but a lot of folks might not even bother with them.

The disposabilty adds a new structural problem to the economy.  It cuts into demand for player-crafted ships.  A month after DLC introduction ships are sitting in the Charleston market a good deal longer than they used to.

Address the disposable nature of the DLCs and I suspect this might mitigate some of the port battle issues as well.  I am guessing some of the tactics described are not dependent on having upgrades.  Just on using a ship you can replace the next day.

The respawn clock ought to be tied to what the ship can get in terms of bonus.  So many days since the last.  Just to be clear, not since you last had one, but so many days since you last redeemed one.  I don't have an opinion on how many days, but at a minimum, next day, zero bonuses.  For that matter, a churned ship should be a sub-par ship.  Too many days in a row and the quality drops to zero knowledge and upgrade slots.

Which is not going to affect players that spend money and crafting effort on upgrades.  You aren't the ones churning the DLCs.

The redeem is set. These were paid for under DLC terms on valve, changing that would cause serious issues even if it was allowed. 

 

[John Jacob Astor]

1 hour ago, Flash Jack said:

The redeem is set. These were paid for under DLC terms on valve, changing that would cause serious issues even if it was allowed. 

 

That being the case I am withholding a final opinion on this until after the crafting and economy reworks.

Presumably there is a plan to address the structural issues the DLCs appear to introduce.