Alternative aiming system

[312_JS]

Hi all.

 

I find the current aiming system very easy.

 

I was thinking about a feature that would make it slightly more realistic/skill based/demanding.

 

My vision is that there would be another bar, that would move up and down as the ship lists on the waves. That would be, where the cannons are actually aiming (think "gyro stabilisation" OFF).

 

The player would than fire when the two bars overlay each other, to ensure the balls land where the current aiming bar is.

 

Because we would need to do this for each cannon individually (as they do not fire simultaneously), I would turn the "gyro stabilisation" ON after pressing the left mouse button (fire all loaded cannons).

 

Hope that makes sense..

 

Opinions?

 

Here is a little mockup i did (sorry, didn't have time to make a moving picture, but you get the idea).

 

[Flip]

Hi all.

 

I find the current aiming system very easy.

 

I was thinking about a feature that would make it slightly more realistic/skill based/demanding.

 

My vision is that there would be another bar, that would move up and down as the ship lists on the waves. That would be, where the cannons are actually aiming (think "gyro stabilisation" OFF).

 

The player would than fire when the two bars overlay each other, to ensure the balls land where the current aiming bar is.

 

Because we would need to do this for each cannon individually (as they do not shoot simultaneously), I would turn the "gyro stabilisation" ON after pressing the left mouse button (fire all loaded cannons).

 

Hope that makes sense..

 

Opinions?

 

Here is a little mockup i did (sorry, didn't have time to make a moving picture, but you get the idea).

 

 

 

Honestly sounds like just a mini game being added. Don't really see the need.

[312_JS]

That's true, but I personally see the need.

[Magnum]

the balls don't land where the current bar is anyway - they drop.

 

the current bar is just an elevation as relates to the deck - to let you know how many wedges are under the trolly/slide of the gun - when you raise or lower it you are "in theory" jacking or unjacking the guns.

[312_JS]

I know, that's not the point though. The bar is non the less an indication.

[kaboki]

nah, keep it the way it is....

[Magnum]

Well, that is the point - when the ship rolls and bucks the current bar is affected - play a rough seas game, you'll see what I mean.

 

An added bar would be TMI - AFAIK.

[312_JS]

Well, that is the point - when the ship rolls and bucks the current bar is affected - play a rough seas game, you'll see what I mean.

 

An added bar would be TMI - AFAIK.

it is not affected 99% of the time, only if its is over the max/min elevation..

[Rogues Salute]

I haven't actually played yet. But watching videos on youtube I was struck by the fact that no timing for pitch and roll of the boat seemed to be necessary when firing canon.

 

At least in the videos I watched, in stormy weather the aiming line didn't move up and down with the movements of the boat. 

 

In my mind the hardest part of aiming a canon at sea would be accounting for the roll and pitch of the boat. You would have to train the gun on target, elevate for estimated range, then wait for the timing of the roll of the ship to fire the gun.

 

The OP suggestion seems like a good idea for more realistic gunnery but as in most simulators that I play, the difficulty and realism that I relish is often too much for many other players.    

 

On the other hand...  The timing of individual shots to account ot the roll of the boat was not the captains responsibility.  The gunners did the aiming and firing of the canon. The captain has more important things to think about. The captains performance in other decisions would suffer if he had to think about the timing of each ranging shot.  

 

It's probably fine the way it is. Maybe an option to look down the barrel of a gun and manually aim and fire yourself should also mean you have to wait for the roll of teh boat to fire.

[312_JS]

I agree that it was a gunners responsibility, but the system we currently have is really easy.

The system I'm suggesting would sort of put you in a position of the ranging shot/s gunner/s, when you fire the whole broadside salvo, it would be to each of the imaginary gunners to do their job..

[Magnum]

I haven't actually played yet. But watching videos on youtube I was struck by the fact that no timing for pitch and roll of the boat seemed to be necessary when firing canon.

 

At least in the videos I watched, in stormy weather the aiming line didn't move up and down with the movements of the boat. 

 

In my mind the hardest part of aiming a canon at sea would be accounting for the roll and pitch of the boat. You would have to train the gun on target, elevate for estimated range, then wait for the timing of the roll of the ship to fire the gun.

 

The OP suggestion seems like a good idea for more realistic gunnery but as in most simulators that I play, the difficulty and realism that I relish is often too much for many other players.    

 

On the other hand...  The timing of individual shots to account ot the roll of the boat was not the captains responsibility.  The gunners did the aiming and firing of the canon. The captain has more important things to think about. The captains performance in other decisions would suffer if he had to think about the timing of each ranging shot.  

 

It's probably fine the way it is. Maybe an option to look down the barrel of a gun and manually aim and fire yourself should also mean you have to wait for the roll of teh boat to fire.

 

The real problem with this is "who" would drive the ship while you were doing it?

 

Since we already have the very artificial situation where 1 player is virtually taking the place of between 20 and 1000 crewmen we have to have some artifice to keep the game manageable.

 

If you want to complexify the shooting - you need to simplify the driving - since you can't do both at once.

[Grim DeGrim]

Play the Stormie map! It is affected.

And maybe it is just me, but I am terra bad at aiming even with ranging shot, unless point blank... I many times miss even after ranging in (deck #2 will fall short, or I won't lead shot enough).

[Grim DeGrim]

Excellent idea though. Keep them coming. Your idea might create another idea, and so on.

Don't be discouraged from providing feedback.

[Kingfisher]

With the small ships you most definitely have to time the wave action. There are also times where your ship will be heeled so hard over that your shot won't go past 50 yards. You have to adjust course or sails to try and make the shot happen.

I think the aiming system is pretty doggone well done. Very minimalistic yet a good challenge.

I think they can and will make the shots subject to a bit of RNG and thus more challenging, because right now we seem to be firing aerodynamically perfect balls.

[Wicked Mouse]

What if the aiming bar, at the time of giving the command for a broadside, is the elevation of a gun when a ship would be stable (so no rocking back and forth)? So when you for instance aim halfway the masts as a player the guns will only fire when the ship rolls at the correct 'angle' and the gun is actually aiming correctly due to the roll. So you can give the command at any time, but maybe have to wait a little before the guns are aimed properly, according to the gunners.

 

So alternatively to the OP's suggestion where you don't need to match the two bars manually. Afterall as a captain you got a crew doing that.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Mr. Mouse, that's actually an incredibly interesting idea.  I have been having a hard time figuring out how to deal with the roll of the ship without having to micromanage each gun, but that's a very novel approach.

[Devante del Nero]

I feel like the current system is harder than the one you're suggesting, since it would provide a way of calculating our ship's angle a way we don't currently have, but you're saying the current system is too easy and this would make it more realistic?

 

I like the idea of representing the ship's pitching on the aiming bar somehow though, either by having it move up and down with the ship or like you're suggesting having a second bar that represents rolling/angle. But I think the devs want to avoid adding UI elements like the plague, they seem very focused on minimalism.

[Wicked Mouse]

Mr. Mouse, that's actually an incredibly interesting idea.  I have been having a hard time figuring out how to deal with the roll of the ship without having to micromanage each gun, but that's a very novel approach.

Well that's what gunners (gun-captains) did in real life anyway When given the command to fire they waited until the roll of the ship would be most favourable and lit the gunpower right at the correct moment in the roll. Choosing the right moment was the skill of the gun-captain, by the shot type they knew what to aim for This changes nothing to the current system for the player, only the moment of firing. This could feel like "lag", but maybe with added officers shouting not unlikely? So when given the command to fire broadside you hear once, or several times (depending on the size of your ship) "FIRE!".

Such feedback could also be given to when selecting raking broadside (front to aft or aft to front) once implemented, so when you select it you hear officer(s) shout something along the line of "RAKING BROADSIDE FROM AFT TO FRONT ON OUR COMMAAAAAAND! ..... STEADYYYYYY!!..." and with each click/button press hear "FIRE!", when the roll of the ship is favourable.

 

Also now if the elevation of the guns is being depressed by the roll, you see the aiming bar being dragged down, losing your aim. This might be changed then into the limits of the roll. So if the ship rolls the cannons down, you could still aim at the sails, but if you click/order to fire the cannons will only shoot if they reach that elevation in the roll.

[akd]

I haven't actually played yet. But watching videos on youtube I was struck by the fact that no timing for pitch and roll of the boat seemed to be necessary when firing canon.

 

At least in the videos I watched, in stormy weather the aiming line didn't move up and down with the movements of the boat. 

 

In my mind the hardest part of aiming a canon at sea would be accounting for the roll and pitch of the boat. You would have to train the gun on target, elevate for estimated range, then wait for the timing of the roll of the ship to fire the gun.

 

The OP suggestion seems like a good idea for more realistic gunnery but as in most simulators that I play, the difficulty and realism that I relish is often too much for many other players.    

 

On the other hand...  The timing of individual shots to account ot the roll of the boat was not the captains responsibility.  The gunners did the aiming and firing of the canon. The captain has more important things to think about. The captains performance in other decisions would suffer if he had to think about the timing of each ranging shot.  

 

It's probably fine the way it is. Maybe an option to look down the barrel of a gun and manually aim and fire yourself should also mean you have to wait for the roll of teh boat to fire.

The way to handle this is to simply increase baseline vertical dispersion to reflect the fact that perfect timing for roll was not possible and would vary greatly depending on individual gunner skill, ignition precision, etc. As the sea becomes rough, vertical dispersion would increase further. I'm not talking huge increases here, but just something over the current total lack of vertical dispersion. It is the appropriate balance to a "stabilized" aim point.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Well that's what gunners (gun-captains) did in real life anyway When given the command to fire they waited until the roll of the ship would be most favourable and lit the gunpower right at the correct moment in the roll. Choosing the right moment was the skill of the gun-captain, by the shot type they knew what to aim for This changes nothing to the current system for the player, only the moment of firing. This could feel like "lag", but maybe with added officers shouting not unlikely? So when given the command to fire broadside you hear once, or several times (depending on the size of your ship) "FIRE!".

Such feedback could also be given to when selecting raking broadside (front to aft or aft to front) once implemented, so when you select it you hear officer(s) shout something along the line of "RAKING BROADSIDE FROM AFT TO FRONT ON OUR COMMAAAAAAND! ..... STEADYYYYYY!!..." and with each click/button press hear "FIRE!", when the roll of the ship is favourable.

 

Also now if the elevation of the guns is being depressed by the roll, you see the aiming bar being dragged down, losing your aim. This might be changed then into the limits of the roll. So if the ship rolls the cannons down, you could still aim at the sails, but if you click/order to fire the cannons will only shoot if they reach that elevation in the roll.

 

They're avoiding playing actual voice commands to avoid the annoyance of hearing the same thing a million times in a battle.  My wife hates the bosun's whistle even because of how repetitive it is.  

[312_JS]

They're avoiding playing actual voice commands to avoid the annoyance of hearing the same thing a million times in a battle.  My wife hates the bosun's whistle even because of how repetitive it is.  

Lucky me. My fiancée told me several times "go play the ships, I want to sleep"..

[Wicked Mouse]

They're avoiding playing actual voice commands to avoid the annoyance of hearing the same thing a million times in a battle.  My wife hates the bosun's whistle even because of how repetitive it is.  

Simple: add the option to turn voice commands off

[SYN_Bloody-Bandy]

... watching videos on youtube I was struck by the fact that no timing for pitch and roll of the boat seemed to be necessary when firing canon.

At least in the videos I watched, in stormy weather the aiming line didn't move up and down with the movements of the boat. 

 

... Maybe an option to look down the barrel of a gun and manually aim and fire yourself should also mean you have to wait for the roll of teh boat to fire.  [emphasis mine]

 

Haven't been able to purchase NA yet, but will agree with this post after watching video.  It would be great if the aim-view was down a 'generalized' gunsite representing all the guns and that it pitched with the ship. 

My impression is that ships got quite close for broadsides precisely because it was so hard to aim...

 

That said, we must all remember this is a game, and game balance must be met otherwise it will get boring.  Encounters are quite long already, but will admit very 'engaging'.  

Vertical dispersion may be real, but it will mean less effective broadsides and long drawn out battles unless individual shot damage was increased, or ship 'armor' decreased.  Then again, long range broadside 'sniping' is likely not very realistic either. 

[Crankey]

I think the current horizontal red line is a usable simple tool for testing purposes, but I do agree with the OP that a more robust and informative and may I hope "historically aesthetic" system be in place for the release version. Perhaps a small image to show current notch adjustment of the cannons quoins.

 

I do find that I lose my aiming height at extreme range when the ships roll reduces my maximum aim point and pulls it down and abandons it at its new height, to the absolute horror of my ranging gunners, who have to start all over again.

 

I believe my gunners know there stuff and would know their maximum and minimum aiming points which matches the ships heel, regardless of where the horizon sits (I would see that as a very subtle screen marker). If I can then set an aim point which doesn't move with the ships roll I can range my guns when the ship heels adequately for me to release a shot.

 

So in essence if done well, I would agree with the OP that a similar but more informative system could be utilised.

[Vasco]

This may tie in to the quality of the NPC crew but my thoughts run to the standard red bar but with one bar above and one below representing the minimum and maximum elevation to hit the selected target based on all the relevant factors (cannon/carronade calibre/length and ammunition type). This band would increase or decrease depending upon the competence of the NPC crew.

 

By rights, we're the captain of the ship, not every senior member of the crew.