Confederate Legendary Campaign

[contact]

1 minute ago, pandakraut said:

Keep in mind they are both playing on Legendary which is arguably not what the game is balanced around. Both battles are very winnable with a variety of strategies on lower difficulties.

Any of the battles with multiple phases can be a bit confusing until you get used to them. The battles are setup to somewhat mimic the historical progression which can result in some disconnect when the player's strategy or success does not line up with history.

Hi,

Yes appreciate that. I was able to win Stones River on BG level. Though was touch and go.

Not ready to call it a day just yet. I came within 40 minutes of obtaining a draw at Chancellorsville.

I am used to the up scaling. But Chancellorsville seems to go too far.

But then been also been  informed thrown into a battle at Salem Church !

Seems a tad too favarable on the side of the Union.

 

 

 

[pandakraut]

1 minute ago, Mukremin said:

I have the feeling the other parts of the map get opened too early. It happens before i even get all my forces in the trees and set a defensive line. Might have to try again.

Do you have a general with speed bonuses? Are you capturing any of the VP flags? It's been a while since I've played it purely vanilla, but my recollection is that when setting all units in the southern deployment block in the top right and routing them around the trees I was able to get all of them up into CSA controlled woods and get at least 4 or 5 units into the woods above the northern union VP before the phase change. 

[Mukremin]

Just now, contact said:

Hi,

Yes appreciate that. I was able to win Stones River on BG level. Though was touch and go.

Not ready to call it a day just yet. I came within 40 minutes of obtaining a draw at Chancellorsville.

I am used to the up scaling. But Chancellorsville seems to go too far.

But then been also been  informed thrown into a battle at Salem Church !

Seems a tad too favarable on the side of the Union.

 

 

 

it is historic that CSA had a lesser chance on winning the war, Union had better troops, more cash and plenty of guns and reserves. CSA is meant to be more challenging, Legendary is near impossible.

[LAVA]

1 hour ago, Mukremin said:

i still believe you should get recruits instead of artillery, you won't need that much artillery at Stones River.

It's not the artillery per se, it is the type of artillery... 24 pound howitzers, which I can give to a unit with a proficiency of 70+. Defensively it will kick ass.

Besides, I think if I bring more infantry (by buying the troops), the AI will simply scale up to meet them.

[contact]

Just now, pandakraut said:

Do you have a general with speed bonuses? Are you capturing any of the VP flags? It's been a while since I've played it purely vanilla, but my recollection is that when setting all units in the southern deployment block in the top right and routing them around the trees I was able to get all of them up into CSA controlled woods and get at least 4 or 5 units into the woods above the northern union VP before the phase change. 

I’m able to hold the 2 conditions required for a draw.

I have tried that. But Union infantry and cannon block my way. ( Moving troops back to the controlled woods).

But when it goes to the 3rd day my troops are placed all over the place. I have to scramble to try and get them where I want them. Before the Union can attack. But they are given 3.59 hours to inflict sufficient casualties that I cannot get a draw to have not inflected at least 5% more casualties. I am able to hold on to the locations for a draw.

[LAVA]

19 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

Where are you having trouble with cutting through the middle? It's always worked fairly well for me in the past, though I'm also not dealing with the oversized brigades that you both are facing.

Actually at Everettsville, my brigades had 1700 men and the Yanks had, at the most 1900 man brigades. So I wouldn't say I'm up against oversized brigades.

We'll see what happens at Stones River... I will cut the center.

[pandakraut]

6 minutes ago, LAVA said:

Besides, I think if I bring more infantry (by buying the troops), the AI will simply scale up to meet them.

This is almost certainly the case. Comparing to my old saves with smaller unit sizes you both are already scaling up the AI infantry a decent amount. I only faced about 55k at Stones River with smaller units.

5 minutes ago, LAVA said:

Actually at Everettsville, my brigades had 1700 men and the Yanks had, at the most 1900 man brigades. So I wouldn't say I'm up against oversized brigades.

Sorry, should have said larger brigades rather than oversized. Though sizes at Everettsville appear to be pretty consistent. With 1100 men brigades I was still facing units around 1800.

[LAVA]

Well, had a shot at Stones River and won, however, it was a Pyrrhic victory. Well give it another try soon.

[LAVA]

On 7/18/2018 at 5:03 PM, Mukremin said:

I still can't beat Stones River.. tried multiple times and ways, i tried the fast approach and try the slow approach. Both did not work.

Okay, so I have had time to look at the situation and the problem is that you cannot use Col Kelly's video as an example, because they have changed the first day deployment. Before, you would receive 3rd and 4th division of 2nd Corps on the first day, which allowed you to sweep into the enemy rear. Now you don't. If you want to win on the first day, you have to do it with 4 divisions of 1st Corps, the 1st and 2nd division of 2nd Corps and the 1st division of 3rd Corps. On the second day you get the rest of your troops.

So the difference is, you are fighting the first day with 2 less divisions then Col Kelly had.

Now time to figure out a strategy...

[Mukremin]

8 hours ago, LAVA said:

Okay, so I have had time to look at the situation and the problem is that you cannot use Col Kelly's video as an example, because they have changed the first day deployment. Before, you would receive 3rd and 4th division of 2nd Corps on the first day, which allowed you to sweep into the enemy rear. Now you don't. If you want to win on the first day, you have to do it with 4 divisions of 1st Corps, the 1st and 2nd division of 2nd Corps and the 1st division of 3rd Corps. On the second day you get the rest of your troops.

So the difference is, you are fighting the first day with 2 less divisions then Col Kelly had.

Now time to figure out a strategy...

now that is a huge difference, i tried like 4 times to use Col Kelly's tactic and all failed. Now i understand why..
I tried to swing left with 5 brigades to surround the souther Union forces, but those damn Yankee cavalry on the left kept harassing me.

[pandakraut]

I rewatched Col Kelly's video and it turns out I used a bit different approach. I still split the center, but my 1st corps is entirely dedicated to holding that line, it basically doesn't move to attack the camp at all. Most of the union cavalry is allowed to pass to the north, I've found that once they get up there they don't tend to do much else. The center VP capture is delayed as long as possible to give the most time to get into position.

Sometimes I won't take the woods north of the center VP that Kelly defended at either and will defend from the center VP woods, the confederate starting position to the east, and the available cover to the west with skirmishers interspersed. I think this approach requires heavy sniper usage to be able to wear down the mass of units from the south and convince any units attacking from the north to turn around though. Going further north might still be better in terms of getting the enemy units out into the open, would have to try it again.

2nd corps supports 1st corps initially and helps pin the union forces in the north, but towards the end of that phase nearly all of it moves to where the river crossing will open up. Then the divisions of 2nd and 3rd corps take the landing from as far north as possible. Clear the line of breastworks north of the river, split across the ford below the breastworks and the westernmost ford. I've found that this minimizes the time I spend fighting out of cover.

Some units of 1st corps will eventually start to move north once the union troops in the south have been beaten down enough to stop attacking. I've tried enveloping them in multiple different ways, but I find they usually end up clumping in one set of woods or another and it's not worth the casualties to finish them off completely. 

I've never tried letting the southern units have free access to run north, maybe it's possible to just hold the original line with parts of 1st corps and send more divisions up to support 2nd and 3rd corps? Not sure if the AI will default to trying to attack, holding more of the middle of the map, or if those units will all just go sit in the camp. Good luck on finding a solution

 

[LAVA]

Tried a bunch of different tactics and The History Guy seems to have the best way of attack. 

On first day, just try to kill as many as possible with as few casualties as possible. Then on second day, set up for a duel frontal attacks on both flags. Just take the flags and hold them until you can finish the game. You don't get a lot of kills, but you don't get a lot of casualties either and you live to fight another day.

[Mukremin]

11 hours ago, LAVA said:

Tried a bunch of different tactics and The History Guy seems to have the best way of attack. 

On first day, just try to kill as many as possible with as few casualties as possible. Then on second day, set up for a duel frontal attacks on both flags. Just take the flags and hold them until you can finish the game. You don't get a lot of kills, but you don't get a lot of casualties either and you live to fight another day.

I have watched his videos on Stones River, however he only has 1 or 2 videos on Legendary. I am not sure which one i had watched, but he made frontal assaults on the southern woods.

I have tried a similar approach, but i tried surrounding them but was distracted in the north. Perhaps the units deployed in the north should stay in the woods or move south to kill the southern Union troops. If they sit idle, you may not be able to inflict casualties or destroy the Southern Union troops.

Not to mention he talks about replenishing his army ( he has 20.000+ ) men not deployed.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Mukremin

[LAVA]

So... after a lot of hard thinking on Stones River, I re-organized my army and fought the battle. I was doing really well until the final assault. When I assaulted the southern objective instead of going for a straight frontal attack, I curved around the flank a bit and brought my troops under fire from 4 defensive units instead of 3. The first assault failed, I rallied my troops and made a second assault and carried the day. I could have kicked myself in the butt for all the men I wasted on that assault, nevertheless, my goal was to win the battle without losing more than 12,000 men and I was close enough to say... Hey... this campaign is still alive.

Video to follow.

[Mukremin]

3 minutes ago, LAVA said:

So... after a lot of hard thinking on Stones River, I re-organized my army and fought the battle. I was doing really well until the final assault. When I assaulted the southern objective instead of going for a straight frontal attack, I curved around the flank a bit and brought my troops under fire from 4 defensive units instead of 3. The first assault failed, I rallied my troops and made a second assault and carried the day. I could have kicked myself in the butt for all the men I wasted on that assault, nevertheless, my goal was to win the battle without losing more than 12,000 men and I was close enough to say... Hey... this campaign is still alive.

Video to follow.

yaaay! there is still hope! can't wait to watch the video.

[LAVA]

Though I badly bungle my first assault on day 2 on the Southern objective, I somehow win the battle. My army losses 12,111 men and 14 guns to the Blue Bellies 24,775 men 55 guns. With a total strength of 45,000 men, the campaign continues. On to Chancellorsville!

A shout out to The History Guy for showing me the way on this one! His channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsJCJD1tAzTZ1eUUiskH-9w

Still can't believe how badly I conducted that assault on the Southern objective on the second day. The middle defending unit would have ran like rabbits if I had concentrated on them from the start. That poor first assault probably cost me at least 1,000 casualties. Darn!

[Mukremin]

7 hours ago, LAVA said:

Though I badly bungle my first assault on day 2 on the Southern objective, I somehow win the battle. My army losses 12,111 men and 14 guns to the Blue Bellies 24,775 men 55 guns. With a total strength of 45,000 men, the campaign continues. On to Chancellorsville!

A shout out to The History Guy for showing me the way on this one! His channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsJCJD1tAzTZ1eUUiskH-9w

Still can't believe how badly I conducted that assault on the Southern objective on the second day. The middle defending unit would have ran like rabbits if I had concentrated on them from the start. That poor first assault probably cost me at least 1,000 casualties. Darn!

I salute you sir! A fine display of tactic and movement. The first day was almost perfectly executed! I agree with you on the attack on the Southern objective.. But still a great victory mate, with few losses. You dropped from 20.000 to 12.000 casualties by going this tactic. Credit also goes to the History Guy of course, will definitely try this out with the input of cavalry.

One major difference i face, how come the Union cavalry starts to harass me? Both you and History Guy seems to be left alone by the Union cavalry

[LAVA]

2 hours ago, Mukremin said:

One major difference i face, how come the Union cavalry starts to harass me? Both you and History Guy seems to be left alone by the Union cavalry

At around 23:31 you see the position of the Union cavalry. If you don't attack them they retreat to the far top left of the map a bit after you receive the message "Attack Nashville Pike" at around 31:48.

I do believe I can do even better in this battle. I might play it one more time and see how it goes.

[LAVA]

I just continued...

At Blackwater Heights I wipe out the Union army. The Yanks suffer losses of 21,949 men and 48 guns to my 5,968 men. Probably should have been happy with just taking the objective, however, wiping out the Blue Bellies ensures their army quality does not improve.

Blackwater Heights:

 

[pandakraut]

Question on the southern vp assault at stones river. Do you normally stagger your charges or was that the miscontrol you were referring to? I ask because there are significant bonuses in game for getting multiple units into melee so I usually try to get everything to hit at the same time, with a slight preference for rookie units hitting first so they take the brunt of any fire. Skirmishers might be even better in that roll, hard to micro without pausing though.

[Mukremin]

5 hours ago, LAVA said:

I just continued...

At Blackwater Heights I wipe out the Union army. The Yanks suffer losses of 21,949 men and 48 guns to my 5,968 men. Probably should have been happy with just taking the objective, however, wiping out the Blue Bellies ensures their army quality does not improve.

Blackwater Heights:

 

Good executed battle mate, Union army was utterly destroyed. On to the next set of battles prior to Chansellorsville, i really want to see how you going to fight that.

[LAVA]

1st Franklin is done. Played it a bit different then most, but basically the same. Will have the video up soon.

[Mukremin]

3 minutes ago, LAVA said:

1st Franklin is done. Played it a bit different then most, but basically the same. Will have the video up soon.

have you thought about what to do at Chancellorsville? I tried the first day victory after failing my first attempt to a day two victory. I won on day 1. It is possible, but be aware that the losses will be around 9000-10000. On the other hand, if you go for a day 2 victory you will lose perhaps between 12000-15000 and kill even more Yankees. It is up to you. I killed 15.000 which was sufficient seeing the enemy numbers at Gettysburg.

[LAVA]

Haven't really thought about Chancellorsville, to be quite honest. It can be a long, long battle... and Salem Church tacked on.

I've got 5 three star artillery batteries though and they will probably play a predominant factor in how I play the battle.

[LAVA]

So here are my latest casualty figures... my K/D ratio took quite a hit at Chancellorsville (dropping from 3.33 to 3.10):

CSA Campaign Losses

Battle                         CSA Losses           USA Losses         USA Missing+

Potomac Fort                 2,466/05               5,337/11                    846
Newport News               1,652/02               4,925/00                        0
1st Bull Run*                  7,500/12             23,909/42                 2,957
Ambush Convoy               283/00               1,870/00                    308
Stay Alert                        4,085/00             14,769/27                 1,419
Shiloh*                            9,471/05             28,449/62                        0
1st Winchester              3,759/01             12,151/24                    553
Cross Keys                     3,690/01             15,149/00                        0
Port Republic                 2,769/00             11,451/50                1,069
Gaines Mill*                   5,626/02             13,063/64                    237
Malvern Hill*                12,467/10             32,040/104              1,190
Cedar Mountain             6,849/03            22,716/48                    120
Manassas Depot           5,118/00               7,824/02                    327
2nd Bull Run*               10,337/01            43,360/102               1,482
Chantilly                          5,938/05            18,166/14                     111
Weapons Factory          2,010/00              8,526/55                         0
Antietam*                     19,833/14            61,975/122                  759
Corinth                             2,947/01            11,234/50                        0
Prairie Grove                   3,799/00            13,586/41                        0
Fredericksburg*           12,469/12            49,981/27                    120
Everettsville                    6,374/00            17,859/48                    974
Stones River*               12,111/14            24,775/55                    309
Blackwater Heights       5,968/00           21,949/48                  1,196
Rio Hill                              4,354/01             5,990/31                       65
Chancellorsville*          15,572/14           28,682/136                   208
Salem Church                  2,080/00          12,328/00                          0

Totals                           160,206/103     497,204/823               13,276

K/D Ratio: 3.10

Will be posting videos for Rio Hill, Chancellorsville and Salem Church tomorrow, hopefully.