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Balancing Hercules and Le Requin with other Free ships

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50 minutes ago, The Last Templar said:

Because I choose to save my money IN-GAME, stock up marks IN-GAME, and use those earnings to purchase notes instead of pvp rewards, new ships, new books, and upgrades?You have missed the point entirely good sir, this has nothing to do with pay to win, you simply picked one part of the statement to use to suit your point. I would never spend REAL money on "elite content" in a game,  and refuse to play games that implement that facet. In-game earnings, gained through TIME and DEDICATION, are not the same as a "pay to win mentality."

Show me a picture or screenshot where a herc loses a 1v1 against a heavy rattle or niagara with opponents who are the same level.

Show me a screenshot where a port battle fleet with less hercs beats a fleet with more hercs where the groups are of equal level.

I'm waiting. So far I have never seen a picture where the side with more hercs lose.

Edited by Teutonic
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21 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

Show me a picture or screenshot where a herc loses a 1v1 against a heavy rattle or niagara with opponents who are the same level.

Show me a screenshot where a port battle fleet with less hercs beats a fleet with more hercs where the groups are of equal level.

I'm waiting. So far I have never seen a picture where the side with more hercs lose.

So far I haven't seen fleets use Hercs due to fear of losing them. Only experienced players use them. No testing = no data. Pure assumptions.

Edited by Banished Privateer

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2 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

So far I haven't seen fleets use Hercs due to fear of losing them. Only experienced players use them. No testing = no data. Pure assumptions.

Fleet practice is always open

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1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

We all know that Prussia players have invested millions in Hercules Notes.

Please go ahead. Next PB at guacata or little harbour use only niagaras.

??? All of us got them free from tutorial, so git gud. Even if we use Niagaras in next PB, attackers won't bring Hercs because they are scared. We defended all shallow ports with 100% success ratio before Hercs and after Hercs. 

I propose fleet practice test to prove stuff.

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5 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

We all got our Hercules that way. But we also can read the global chat when prussia players WTB Hercules Notes, so git gud.

Yes yes we all know you are the best of the best, so git gud.

We use Hercs in OW PvP, that's why we lose them. So far we lost 0 Hercs in RvR so git gud. Hercules is a good hunt ship that many players enjoy, Moscalb lost already like 5 of them :)

Other nations don't buy Hercs, that's only Prussia, right? Of course! A good portion of laugh is good for health.

Edited by Banished Privateer

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I can understand the problem of balance raised by Christendom about shallow port battles, but all the rest seems actually an overreaction.

At the end of the story the mighty hercules could end up costing 10 dollars or something like that ... so let's wait the acutal DLCs before rising a shitstorm for an allegedly P2W ship (only in shallows waters BTW) that a player could purchase once for good for the price of a pizza + beer in a cheap restaurant.

 

 

 

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I don't see a shitstorm about people complaining that Hercules is a broken ship:

1. Slow firerate, making broadsides terrible and hard

2. Excesive heel

3. Massive dispersion due to mix of guns on Herc. Same issue on Renomee and some other ships

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4 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I laughed too when you seem so desperate to keep almost with no changes your expensive OP toys.

Because 100BR for a Hercules, is a joke. For a ship that can beat a Cerberus and a Surprise.

Hercules can beat a 1st rate too and I've done it already. Should we make it 600BR?

I suggested 100-120BR for testing. 100 is the bottom limit, you choose the extreme to make it look silly. Little steps to test and balance instead of crying and histery.

My expensive OP toys make no difference for me, Devs can remove Hercules from NA and I won't even complain about it or cry like you all cry. it's not the ship that kills other players but skill.

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6 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

My suggestions:

1. Easy fix - Make Xebec & Hercules 100BR. It will balance things much better for RvR. 110-120 would be still acceptable, but let's test 100 now, ok? No need to take drastic steps.

2. Big fix - shallows, shallows, shallows. Different level of shallows. Something we've asked for years. Shallows of different depth in OW and battles. I'm almost sure Hercules has deeper draft than other shallow ships. Imagine waters where Hercules gets stuck and Niagara just goes through nice and smooth. This would add another strategic depth into the battles and promote ship variety.

+1

Beyond getting stuck, I understand that there is some historical precedent for ships running into underwater rocks suffering some kind of damage.

It would be great to see naval strategy pull some more weight in the game. It seems to me that the strategy in the game currently  is all about choosing which mods and upgrades to ruin the authenticity of your ship's performance with.

Getting the weather gauge and keeping your bearings provides precious  little advantage compared with having l337 sniper skilz. 

Having to pay attention to shallows would go a long way to bringing some more strategy into the game.

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9 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

When one side, outnumbered (7vs12, remember?), slaughters the other maybe something more is happening there.

There was no slaughter. Battle was long, pirates started winning having 600 points and all 3 caps. After 1h of intense fighting Prussia got 2 caps and started to win.

But hey, screenshot makes it look like a slaughter.

Edited by Banished Privateer

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57 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

When one side, outnumbered (7vs12, remember?), slaughters the other maybe something more is happening there.

Eh... I have seen battles won against much worse odds, no premium ships involved. Just look at KPR these last weeks. (And before you ask: No, I do not have screenshots at the ready , I am playing the game, not making a documentary :lol:.)

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RIP me. Defends admin about pay to win, goes to read new patch notes and sees "pay to win" in Hercules and Xebec notes...

No words

@Intrepido , you were right about that, it will indeed become a pay to win scenario. My apologies 😕

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Calm down guys admin said they will balance herc and xebec against free ships.

I belive severe BR increase will fix PB issue other solution is:

Give players chsnce too retake tutorial after some time example tutorial reopens every week. We solve pay to win plus give other players a chance to get herc again

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Just look at the combatnews tonight and The Last Templer and wonder just how many of them was he in a Herc and fighting some one else...lol

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10 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Just look at the combatnews tonight and The Last Templer and wonder just how many of them was he in a Herc and fighting some one else...lol

Other players are welcome to bring their hercs and sink our fleet. I encourage it, in fact.

 

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Ok i have something too say:

We have two ships Hercules and Requin i will try to addres both:

Hercules: is only OP in port battles in OW larger frigates can beat him so as was said BR increase is easy fix for now.

Requin: is speed demon at angles that ships capable of killing him cannot do a thing smaller ships capaable ofg catching him are outguned by him.

So herc needs just BR increase atm while requin needs too be looked at and balaced perhaps decreasing his armor thickness and HP

 

what do you think plus did you do any testing yet?

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3 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Le Requin will replace Prince.

Hercules will do with Niagara and Rattle.

Both ships have a big difference in firepower and boarding capabilities to achieve a reasonable balance. 

The easiest option would be removing them from port battles. No premium ships allowed in RvR, it will be make things more fair for all.

I have no problem with PB ban under condition that ships are not nerfed besides screening is still allowed

Edited by Lovec1990

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1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

Le Requin will replace Prince.

Hercules will do with Niagara and Rattle.

Both ships have a big difference in firepower and boarding capabilities to achieve a reasonable balance. 

The easiest option would be removing them from port battles. No premium ships allowed in RvR, it will be make things more fair for all.

I would allow them in in deep water port battles, but make them 120 BR.  Make both 5th rates, but allow them in shallow water OW fights and that is it, balanced meet.  No need to mess with the other shallow ships, even though I'm sure they could use some love any way.

By the way has any one tested to see if you can even get the Le Requin in deep water port battles or is it currently not allowed in any?  I can see it being used for circle control and Mortar Brig hunting.

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Hercules will be re-classed as 5th rate, will have HP/thickness increased and will have BR increased
Le Requin will be de-classed as 6th rate (as it should), and will have HP lowered. 

Hercules due to its depth (3.6m) will still be able to sail in shallow waters, but wont be able to participate in shallow port battles. 

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17 hours ago, DeRuyter said:

+1 and repeat. Hydrographics and individual drafts may be too much programming but let's at least have more detail than shallow/deep. BR may be easy fix.

Let's not throw out any semblance of historical ship armament because of this Herc PB issue please. Ok do take away the poods on the Herc, frankly they are seriously questionable as a main ship armament anyway.

Edinorogs are pretty standard armaments on Russian ships though, but their issue is that historically they were used pretty sparingly, mostly equipped in similar manner to large calibre carronades on ships of the line in numbers of around 6-8 on the upper decks, although they did get used in for an entire gun deck on some of the 18lb frigates, usually the weather deck, and assuming Hercules is of Russian origin (which to me looks most likely) she probably should be able to use them arguing historically.

I'm personally quite split between how we balance the new ships, balancing the current roster to them seems a bit daft as does not letting them in port battles. Its probably better to look at these two ships individually, again looking historically at these ships for balance, Requin has armour that is far too thick, she's a xebec they are the paper thin ships of the age of sail. Hercules on the other hand is quite brick like, and should suffer more speed and agility issues when compared to the other similar sized ships, she should be more vulnerable to carronade armed small ships with higher mobility.

Edited by Fluffy Fishy
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1 minute ago, admin said:

Hercules will be re-classed as 5th rate, will have HP/thickness increased and will have BR increased
Le Requin will be de-classed as 6th rate (as it should), and will have HP lowered. 

Hercules due to its depth (3.6m) will still be able to sail in shallow waters, but wont be able to participate in shallow port battles. 

i think you made quite a few players happy and at ease with this and i like it

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19 minutes ago, admin said:



Hercules due to its depth (3.6m) will still be able to sail in shallow waters, but wont be able to participate in shallow port battles. 

What kind of premium ship is this then?

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4 minutes ago, Wind said:

What kind of premium ship is this then?

 

lets be real hercules is too strong for shallow PBs even in OW it will dominate areas where is alot of shallows and shallow ports

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