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Le Requin Testing and Feedback

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On 3/7/2019 at 5:18 PM, Teutonic said:

it's not the "le rekt" we joked about in the past. still, it has it's perks of high crew and crazy sailing profile.

Le Rekt x'D well done hahahahah.

PvP wise I cannot tell, but from a PvE perspective it's still a monster. Sailing profile is insane, damage is excellent, full crew in every section, you can take on light frigates quite easily with it. And it's so sexy that Playboy's thinking of putting it on cover page for game release x)

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On 3/7/2019 at 6:36 PM, Sovereign said:

A lot of people claim the herculess is useless now, which probably means it is finally a bit more balanced ( havent tried it yet ) ... was the Le Requin changed too? Anyone tried it after update?

I have both Herc and Le Req.

1) Herc has been nerfed compared to other frigates, so about hercules;

Reference Oak/Oak ships

Herc = 3100 hp / 516 /carro broadside weight  / 50 cm thick    

Suprise = 4260 hp / 510 carro / 53cm   

Cerberus = 3970 hp / 416 carro / 52 cm

Renomee = 4600 hp / 440 carro / 55 cm

So Herc is the lightest of light frigates, still good firepower but no where close to what it used to be. I feel that it is balanced now, only carronade is op. for most smaller ships.

 

2) Now the Le Cancer became the Le Required again !!!

Le Req = 3125 hp / 384 carro (DLC, can be redeem everyday, strongest ship of 6th rates, ruler of Solo Pvp (call it Solo Le Req. Zone)) It is once again a P2W ship amongst 6th rates. Enormous firepower, 2nd best hitpoints and double the crew of any 6th rate ship and super upwind profile, any mistake of you ends with getting boarded. The ship has super bouncey stern, very slim side profile staying under waves time to time, it still has buggy sail hit box and your chains will fly through without damage.

Niagra = 3256hp / 320 carro (was good, now better, BUT can not craft you need a permit from some magic bottle or chest!)

H.Rattle = 2900hp / 234 carro (is still good, but like Niagra you can not craft it, needs permit which can not be bought with combat medals !!!)

Prince = 2520 hp / 192 carro (only ship which used to keep up with Le Req., now still much weaker and requires combat medals, why the hell ? )

Snow = 2487 hp / 180 carro (my favourite ship is very weak now, I am not bad snow captain, my duel against Le Req., red sail is only missing some side of armour, while I was sunk due to high carro damage, my 18 pounder carros were a joke against his 32 pounders, we have landed same amount of broadsides on each other. He sailed better but small difference shouldn't be my total annihilation)

Mercury = 3100 hp / 240 carro ( strongest ship which can be crafted anytime without permit or cm, but suspectiable to bowspirit damage, ready to get boarded any time)

 

@admin my question is which ships players can use for instant "SOLO PVP ZONE" , assuming they will face Le most Required DLC :) (which I own both dlc ships). I do not understand putting 2 competetive 6th rate free to play ships behind some chest or sealed bottle barrier, combat medals should be fine which I still would not prefer. Let 6th rates roam shallows freely :) 

 

 

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@Aerospace, I mostly agree with your analysis. It can be added for the 5th rates, that now, Surprise and Renomee require permits too. Fortunately, La Belle Poule remains free of that, but she can't sail on shallows.

In another hand, medals can now be earnt in OW PvP, no more in Patrol Zones only. This could make the "permit screen" be no more a concern, at least for 6th rates and 7th rates. 

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2 hours ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

@Aerospace, I mostly agree with your analysis. It can be added for the 5th rates, that now, Surprise and Renomee require permits too. Fortunately, La Belle Poule remains free of that, but she can't sail on shallows.

In another hand, medals can now be earnt in OW PvP, no more in Patrol Zones only. This could make the "permit screen" be no more a concern, at least for 6th rates and 7th rates. 

You need permits from chests and sealed bottles to craft Niagra and H.Rattlesnake so combat medals not working :) You can craft Prince and normal RattleSnake with combat medals but they are inferior to Le Req / Niagra / H.Rattle.

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the 6th rate line up really has some mega problems with balance and permit requirement in my opinion.

and the fact that a requin has the 2nd highest HPs AND the highest broadside weight AND a bonkers sailing profile - Why would you ever craft a 6th rate that is behind a permit :P.

EDIT: and you didn't even mention the Navy-brig/Brig - which would be close competitors against the mercury. Although, with the ships you chose I can tell there is no contest for them :(.

 

Edited by Teutonic
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4 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

and the fact that a requin has the 2nd highest HPs AND the highest broadside weight AND a bonkers sailing profile - Why would you ever craft a 6th rate that is behind a permit :P

And a frigate crew

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25 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

the 6th rate line up really has some mega problems with balance and permit requirement in my opinion.

and the fact that a requin has the 2nd highest HPs AND the highest broadside weight AND a bonkers sailing profile - Why would you ever craft a 6th rate that is behind a permit :P.

EDIT: and you didn't even mention the Navy-brig/Brig - which would be close competitors against the mercury. Although, with the ships you chose I can tell there is no contest for them :(.

Reasoning in terms of '6th Rate' (ie range of number of guns without taking into account the caliber/pdr) is useless in NA.

Distinguish between :

  • ships with 4/6-pdr guns or 12/24-pdr carro on one side
  • ships with with 9-pdr guns or 32-pdr carro on the other

As for LRQ sailing model, she's not a square-rigger... Plus it can be fine-tuned.

Permits is another matter.

 

Edited by LeBoiteux

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8 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

Reasoning in terms of '6th Rate' (ie range of number of guns without taking into account the caliber/pdr) is useless in NA.

Distinguish between :

  • ships with 4/6-pdr guns or 12/24-pdr carro on one side
  • ships with with 9-pdr guns or 32-pdr carro on the other

As for LRQ sailing model, she's not a square-rigger... Plus it can be fine-tuned.

Permits is another matter.

 

so on a Rvr/Port Battle scale -- Would you ever bring a fleet of 6pd shallow ships against a 9pd shallow fleet in a port battle? would you ever bring any of them?

OW pvp? with the shallow 5th rates, with the 2 DLCs, I think the 6pd 6th rates are in the worst shape balance wise. almost every player I know has tried to just skip them, because we'll never use them except to grind to the next rank for more crew - to crew bigger ships.

I'd prefer the ships be used instead of left in the dust because "we can be in bigger ships now." This is the main issue for a lot of people - Ship stats and BR still lend to always trying to get the bigger ship.

I'm ok with bigger ships being more powerful, but that should not make a smaller ship useless.

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@Teutonic Mercury / Nbrig / Brig have all similiar hp, you are right. BUT, Mercury broadside weight is 240 while NBrig and Brig have only 162 and 144 carro broadside weight. So they are really useless when facing Le Req with 384 carro weight / Niagra 320 carro weight. 

 

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55 minutes ago, Aerospace said:

You need permits from chests and sealed bottles to craft Niagra and H.Rattlesnake so combat medals not working :) You can craft Prince and normal RattleSnake with combat medals but they are inferior to Le Req / Niagra / H.Rattle.

In that case, the only opponent to LRQ is LRQ.

Sad news for me, Rattle and Niag are my favorite shallow ship. As soon as one is easily accessible, the other one is removed. 

I ever opposed some resistance to red sails in a Mercury. But this was before maneuverability of all ships was reduced in patch 30. I'm now far to be sure that this is still possible. 

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2 minutes ago, Aerospace said:

@Teutonic Mercury / Nbrig / Brig have all similiar hp, you are right. BUT, Mercury broadside weight is 240 while NBrig and Brig have only 162 and 144 carro broadside weight. So they are really useless when facing Le Req with 384 carro weight / Niagra 320 carro weight. 

 

at least previously the brig/navy brig had more HPs to compensate for their poor broadside weight.

it's a real downer :(.

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A way out would be to push Le Requin to 5th rate. There is no more opponent to Le Requin in her own 6th rate.

And as opponents can not be found by medals, it won't promote PvP, but just playing random machines in casino.

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16 minutes ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

In that case, the only opponent to LRQ is LRQ.

Sad news for me, Rattle and Niag are my favorite shallow ship. As soon as one is easily accessible, the other one is removed. 

I ever opposed some resistance to red sails in a Mercury. But this was before maneuverability of all ships was reduced in patch 30. I'm now far to be sure that this is still possible. 

I would prefer LRQ to have same hp like prince, 2200 hp because she is already very powerful and special. What makes a LRQ so durable, is it the build quality ? It is a mediteranian pirate raider ship, aren't they cheaper to craft compared to other ships.

Flawed logic is they move an Indefatigable to 4th rate because of her carro firepower but still insisting to keep LRQ at 6th rate.

I feel your pain as I struggled to gather all resources at Nassau for ship crafting, outposts/mines/ores etc. I was gonna craft H.Rattle and Niagras for my clan. I was very happy they made 6th rates cheaper, increased LH pool, made them require less labour hours. 6th rate ships are where people can learn PVP without worrying too much, if they lose a ship, replacable. 

But I noticed while building I needed the permits, permits in some magic sunken ship or chest, I was so heartbroken. I do not understand what they are trying to achieve, push last remaining casuals away I guess.

Edited by Aerospace
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16 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

so on a Rvr/Port Battle scale -- Would you ever bring a fleet of 6pd shallow ships against a 9pd shallow fleet in a port battle? would you ever bring any of them?

OW pvp? with the shallow 5th rates, with the 2 DLCs, I think the 6pd 6th rates are in the worst shape balance wise. almost every player I know has tried to just skip them, because we'll never use them except to grind to the next rank for more crew - to crew bigger ships.

I'd prefer the ships be used instead of left in the dust because "we can be in bigger ships now." This is the main issue for a lot of people - Ship stats and BR still lend to always trying to get the bigger ship.

I'm ok with bigger ships being more powerful, but that should not make a smaller ship useless.

I say the Rate system is useless to classify ships in NA. There must be separate gameplay (PB/shallows-areas/missions/etc). for 6-pdrs and for 9-pdrs, iiif one wants to give a chance to 6th Rates. But who sail 6th Rates btw, huh ?

 

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19 minutes ago, Aerospace said:

@LeBoiteux do not forget rate systems effects skillbooks.

6-7th rate skill books can be much stronger than 4-5th rate skillbooks. 

All we have to do is to replace 6-7th rate skill books and 4-5th rate ones with :

  • 4 to 6 pdr ship skill books
  • 9-pdr ship skill books (from the Niagara up to the Surprise)
  • 12 to 24-pdr frigate skill books
Edited by LeBoiteux
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1 hour ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

remove carro options for le requin, case close

 

Carro only upperdeck above 6th rate, any 6th maximum 18 pounder carronades. 

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5 hours ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

remove carro options for le requin, case close

The question is are they free to change ship features after DLC has been published and bought by players?

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23 minutes ago, Zlatkowar said:

The question is are they free to change ship features after DLC has been published and bought by players?

The legal answer is simple: they can't.

They can change things only if the change do not impact specifically the DLC. A rule of the game, the environment, add other ships is possible. Removing carros from the DLC is not possible. Nerfing carros for all ships is possible. 

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12 hours ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

The legal answer is simple: they can't.

They can change things only if the change do not impact specifically the DLC. A rule of the game, the environment, add other ships is possible. Removing carros from the DLC is not possible. Nerfing carros for all ships is possible. 

Incorrect.  Nerfing “DPS” is no different than nerfing “HP”...   

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10 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Incorrect.  Nerfing “DPS” is no different than nerfing “HP”...   

Well if the change is due to a global change applied on whole game, then they are probably free to do it. But if they focus on a specific feature of the ship (like moving it to 5th rate, removing carro possibility on it, etc), not sure they can.

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On 3/15/2019 at 11:07 AM, Aerospace said:

Le Req (..) strongest ship of 6th rates

Once again, LRQ shouldn't be considered in game as the strongest 6th rate but as the second weakest of the 9-pdr ships (Niagara, LRQ, Cerberus, Renommée, Pandora, Surprise) with the 'best/easiest' sailing profile (not being a square-rigger). 

On 3/15/2019 at 7:52 PM, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

remove carro options for le requin, case close

Case close ? You mean giving LRQ her rigorously historical armament, right ? And giving up the current in-game simple rule : 'any 9-pdr ship also gets 32-pdr carro and vice-versa'. That means a lot of mess among the armament of various in-game ships as it would also mean to give them their historical armament too, that is removing carro on La Renommée, the Cerberus, L'Hermione, etc. + removing guns on Niagara, etc. +  giving Prince de Neuchâtel mainly 12-pdr carro + etc... It is like opening the Pandora box. I guess it needs a lot of thinking before to see if it is actually a good thing. Moreover, would ships without carro be useful in NA ?

 

As for making LRQ a 5th rate ? Would she be a good competitor to the Endymion and her 58 x 32-pdr (carro) + higher hp ?

 

A new 9-pdr competitor to LRG would help, but she'd certainly be a square-rigger...

A new rating system would too.

Edited by LeBoiteux

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