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Le Requin Testing and Feedback


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This are my considerations about the Requin.

 

Notes: The crew number and shallow waters makes sense from a historical point of view. So i will focus on other aspects to balance the ship to others 6th rates. Also i included two buffs to make the ship more balanced in comparison with the others 6th rates.

-  Change the 32pd carronade for 24 pd carronades or 18pd carronades. ( it is difficult to find information about le Requin , similar to Requin the spanish xebec El Gamo used 2 24pd carronades. Maybe this 2 where in the stern or bow.) I think is important for a 6th rate that haves an huge crew to not have the more powerful guns in the same class. However if someone gives an evidence about Requin guns i will change my opinion.

- Nerf the acceleration.

- Nerf the side armor thickness from 50 to 47cm.

- Nerf the side armor HP from 2300 to 2000.

- Nerf the bow thickness from 30 to 27cm.

- Nerf the bow HP from 575 to 525.

- Nerf the stern thickness 20 to 18cm.

- Nerf the stern HP from 230 to 210.

- Nerf the crew from 250 to 245 . Source: https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=15543 ( historical values )

- Buff the turn rate to something around  5.00   ( doesn't make any sense this ship to have a bad turn rate in comparison with the others 6th rate)

- Buff the 2pd cannons dmg from 5 to 10. ( the dmg from the 2pd cannons atm is almost useless. They only have one purpose. To kill crew  from the stern.)

 

This changes are needed to bring the Requin to a same level to others 6th rates. Yes the Requin will still have a huge crew in comparison with the others 6th rates but will not have the 32 pd carronades anymore ) . With the amazing speed upwind but awful downwind she his what is supposed to be. A trader hunter. She can't chase any square rigged warship downwind only traders with the cargo full.

 

Now the problem is, i don't know if the devs are considering nerf the premiums to reasonable values or to buff the others to a similar level.  I only hope i don't need to wait to much.  

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12 minutes ago, no one said:

Buff the turn rate to something around  5.00   ( doesn't make any sense this ship to have a bad turn rate in comparison with the others 6th rate)

Xebec really doesn't need a turn rate buff

 

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8 hours ago, no one said:

I was hoping to see a comparison between the Requin and the others 6th rates. I don't understand what you expect me to see here.

You should see that manual sailing her makes her turn much better than auto. That battle sails even improve that turn rate.

Xebec is the most rewarding ship when sailed manual. Regarding trun rate improvement.

But yeah with auto skipper she turns like driftwood.

But buffing her turn rate would be wrong when considering her manual capability.

Edited by z4ys
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Just now, z4ys said:

You should see that manual sailing here makes her turn much better than auto. That battle sails even improve that turn rate.

Xebec is the most rewarding ship when sailed manual.

You should expect that from any ship. And with battle sails turns even better but you lose too much speed.  What you should show me is a comparison between the Requin and the others 6th rates.  Reading the stats , she is the worse.

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8 minutes ago, no one said:

You should expect that from any ship. And with battle sails turns even better but you lose too much speed.  What you should show me is a comparison between the Requin and the others 6th rates.  Reading the stats , she is the worse.

I will. For the moment just compare video play time to this video or use a stopwatch.

But keep in mind trunrate is influenced by ship length. And she is as long as the surprise and almost as long as trincomalee. So you can't really compare here to other smaller 6th rates.

Edited by z4ys
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22 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I will. For the moment just compare video play time to this video or use a stopwatch.

But keep in mind trunrate is influenced by ship length. And she is as long as the surprise and almost as long as trincomalee. So you can't really compare here to other smaller 6th rates.

around 39 s snow 

around  67 s Requin

Both manual sails , full speed. This is a big difference.

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11 minutes ago, no one said:

around 39 s snow 

around  67 s Requin

Both manual sails , full speed. This is a big difference.

Actual compare her to surprise or renommee. Makes more sense.

Edited by z4ys
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Fun fact. 

I am playing with British atm. 

If there is enemy ship outside KPR the british sail to face him.

If there is one requin or one Herc the british sail to face him.

If there are 2 requins and one Herc or 2 Hercs and one Requin outside no british sail to face them. And i am talking about KPR, the british capital where is normal to see more than 20 british sailing outside to help another brother.

Naval action is a pay 2 win game atm. A game where you need to sail in Requins or Hercules to have a good fight.  This two ships are killing the game. 

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6 hours ago, no one said:

Actually doesn't make any sense in comparing a 6th rate with a 5 th rates.

That cause with her in game stats she should be a 5th rate along with the Herc, but allowed shallows.  Stop thinking of her as a 6rh rate in game.   Quickest fix is to switch her to a 5th rate end of story than figure out shallow water ship balance on those stats.  Also make both ships around 150 BR so they take up the BR of two traditional shallow ships

Edited by Sir Texas Sir
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5 hours ago, guest ck9ubl3t said:

Why would you change the ship. It brings money to admins and destroys the Game perfect no?

 

You squeeze money out of the game before it dies.

Having the game just die is very time effective.

I call this big bizness

The time they take to solve this situation give you reason.

41 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

I will never sail to fight agains Le Requin, for Jamaica Defence Force. 

I do not have time for this bullshit! 

I really love the game and the potential , but this situation makes me think if it was a good buy. I spent the last 2 hours babysitting the seals in KPR.  Is what we do in the british faction. We stay in the harbor entrance and watch for our brothers. If there is a Requin in the area we can only do is join the battle and save our brother . But to kill the Requin is almost impossible. The moment we are close he runs upwind . Then he stays the next hours around the harbor looking for the next lonely target and the process repeats. Boring.

28 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

That cause with her in game stats she should be a 5th rate along with the Herc, but allowed shallows.  Stop thinking of her as a 6rh rate in game.   Quickest fix is to switch her to a 5th rate end of story than figure out shallow water ship balance on those stats.

https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=15543

She was always a 6th rate. But lets assume she is a 5th rate so what? She continues the same thing like the Hercs. Both are shallow waters, both have stupid BR, one is the fastest downwind, the other is the fastest upwind. And lets not forget that both have 32pd carronades.  Great. Stats needs to change to fix this ships. If she is a 5th or 6th rate doesn't make any difference. 

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39 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

That cause with her in game stats she should be a 5th rate along with the Herc, but allowed shallows.  Stop thinking of her as a 6rh rate in game.   Quickest fix is to switch her to a 5th rate end of story than figure out shallow water ship balance on those stats.  Also make both ships around 150 BR so they take up the BR of two traditional shallow ships

 

7 hours ago, no one said:

Actually doesn't make any sense in comparing a 6th rate with a 5 th rates.

It makes sense to compare the trunrate to some 5th rates. Not because of their rate because of the ship length.

Imagine the gunboat would be as long as the trinc. It would still be a 7th rate because of gun count etc but trunrate would be somewhat equal to the trinc.

This is not world of warship or tanks where rates turn accordingly to their br. They turn like that because of physics applied to ship attributes. And trunrate depends on rudder size, ship length, etc. Therefore it makes no sense to compare the le requin to a snow a prince. You would have to look at similar sized vessels by length. And even then it would differ because of the hullshape.

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Its interesting reading back through the early posts when the Le Requin was first introduced for testing and how most people liked it and were even asking for more advantages for it like the ability to load chain in the bow chasers and to have a special ability to overcome determined defender, and the thread was around 7 pages long before people started realizing how broken the ship is and how it can be used to troll.

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1 minute ago, Banished Privateer said:

To make it clear, ships should be removed entirely from RvR, not just shallow PBs. Unless... The devs balance them, fix the bugs and change BR. Then we can discuss.

Exactly what I said.

I'd move Requin back to 5th rates (allowing shallow water as Hercules now - minimum realism), ban Hercules from shallow waters altogether.

This way shallow PBs only for Rattle/Niagara melee.

Then buff Mortar Brig BR to 200+.

Then set a minimum (200+) BR to join deep PBs. Mortar could join, and deep PBs will be back SoL battles and not kiting crap battles.

Simpler and politically less a suicide than nerfing them both altogether: devs would risk to never sell again a DLC.

Moving Requin to 5th would be anyway a (slight) nerf. Making her a bit frailer and nerfing a bit Hercules could solve quite a lot of problems... IF the real balance issue (overpowered perms/books and overstacking stats with them and with wood+trim) will be solved.

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On 8/3/2018 at 2:42 AM, z4ys said:

 

It makes sense to compare the trunrate to some 5th rates. Not because of their rate because of the ship length.

Imagine the gunboat would be as long as the trinc. It would still be a 7th rate because of gun count etc but trunrate would be somewhat equal to the trinc.

This is not world of warship or tanks where rates turn accordingly to their br. They turn like that because of physics applied to ship attributes. And trunrate depends on rudder size, ship length, etc. Therefore it makes no sense to compare the le requin to a snow a prince. You would have to look at similar sized vessels by length. And even then it would differ because of the hullshape.

Can you compare the lenght in the water line between the Requin and the others 5 th rates?

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4 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Exactly what I said.

I'd move Requin back to 5th rates (allowing shallow water as Hercules now - minimum realism), ban Hercules from shallow waters altogether.

This way shallow PBs only for Rattle/Niagara melee.

Then buff Mortar Brig BR to 200+.

Then set a minimum (200+) BR to join deep PBs. Mortar could join, and deep PBs will be back SoL battles and not kiting crap battles.

Simpler and politically less a suicide than nerfing them both altogether: devs would risk to never sell again a DLC.

Moving Requin to 5th would be anyway a (slight) nerf. Making her a bit frailer and nerfing a bit Hercules could solve quite a lot of problems... IF the real balance issue (overpowered perms/books and overstacking stats with them and with wood+trim) will be solved.

In that case i would suggest to give her a big nerf in speed when sailing downwind ( maybe solving this by nerfing the ,pirate rig, etc). This way she would be what it was from a historical point of view, a trader hunter. All the warships could run from her sailing downwind but not the cargo ships. And she could run away sailing away upwind.

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