Le Requin Testing and Feedback

[Busterbloodvessel]

1 hour ago, admin said:

hard data (last 90 days)

Selections 
Yellow - 5th rates
Orange - 6th rates

Definitions

• Death ratio:Total deaths/Number of battles (all battles) 
  • shows the pvp survivability of the vessel out of all battle cases - in what % of battles ship sinks or gets captured
  • interesting tidbit - Rookie brig dies only in 30% of battles
• PVP ratio: PvP kills/Number of battles
  • show in what % of battles ship gets the pvp kill
  • shows the general preference of the ship for pvp action by pvp players
  • (keep in mind that this number is higher for vessels introduced recently - if this remains high over time the ship could be considered stronger than expected)
• PVP K/D : PVP Kills/PVP Deaths
  • Shows the the ability to generate pvp kills in battles (more kills than deaths)
  • Should be considered together with general survivability. 
  • Keep in mind that newer vessels can have higher K/Ds due to the fact that they new AND often used by fans of the project (who are also often very experienced)

 

 

I note that in the PvP ratio the Hercules is almost twice a likely to kill compared to the Heavy Rattle (11.66% to 6.2%). 

• I consider your reasoning for these numbers being that predominantly PvP players are using the Herc is flawed. I believe it's used by PvP players because it's OP particularly when fighting in shallow waters where a non-DLC ship is pants. If you lower the DLC ship capabilities below the craftable ship performances the PvP'ers will soon stop using them (and of course others buying them, which is really what this is all about isn't it?).

Look also at the ratios of the Requin compared to the Heavy Rattlesnake, the Requin is better in every column.

• In a game where we are gathering speed upgrades of a few % the difference in the Requin/Heavy percentages screams out that the Heavy Rattle (which previously was the shallow PB vessel of choice for most) is now relegated to a bath tub. The Requin dies 65% less (4.52% / 6.95%), gets 59% more PvP kills per battle (9.19% to 6.2%) and the Kill to Death ratio is 127% better using a Requin (203.11% to 89.3%) i.e. more than twice as many kills per death.

Now look at the smaller difference in First Rate percentages.

• I think we can all agree that a Victory is generally less able than a Santi or a L'Ocean. We can also discern this from only the relatively small percentage differences in your numbers. For me this again demonstrably highlights the massive differences between DLC ships and the former 'best ships' in shallow waters where differences are far more strident and out of balance.  

 

I don't mind you selling DLC ships as you need to earn some dosh but just come clean about what you are doing and stop trying to kid a kidder. Your just loosing respect.  

 

Buster (shot at dawn) 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Busterbloodvessel

[Bluetooth]

3 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Like all data it can be used to show whatever you like. With showing percentages it fails to show how many battles the ships were actually involved in and it does not show how many of the battles were against superior opposition. In the Le Requin I am willing to attempt to take on far larger targets than my BR would normally dictate, so the chances of getting it wrong sometimes are higher and I may be sunk. If a new ship was introduced today and had only been involved in 1 battle and won how would that show up as percentages? You say the Rookie Brig has some good percentages, but how many people actually have used it in a PvP battle.

The simple fact that the Le Requin and Herc are the go to ships for majority of people raiding green zones shows that they are OP. Many players who very seldom went solo hunting in other nations green zones now feel confident enough to do so in these ships. I know because I am one of them. It may be a good thing in some ways that they have generated more PvP but the bad thing is that it is only really generating it in the green zones which is killing off new players. Bring back proper safe zones and majority of the issues with the DLC ships will disappear.

The data is clear.

Shes been used a lot. 

She has won a lot.

She has sank a lot.

1 minute ago, Dibbler said:

 

 I wouldn't say the Req is ugly, however perhaps a Burka when out in public would be appropriate.

 

Good god sir!

She's a lady and full of eastern promise......

 

[Dibbler (Retired)]

5 minutes ago, Crow said:

The data is clear.

Shes been used a lot. 

She has won a lot.

She has sank a lot.

Good god sir!

She's a lady and full of eastern promise......

 

 

She looks like a Letterbox.

 

 

[Ellias]

Nowadays, you either sail L'Ocean, Le Requin, Hercules or a trader. There is almost no place or content for other ships.

[Grundgemunkey]

1 minute ago, Ellias said:

Nowadays, you either sail L'Ocean, Le Requin, Hercules or a trader. There is almost no place or content for other ships.

im not quite sure thats true ... but  if you sail into an enemy green zone  why would you take anything other than a le req ..

[admin]

25 minutes ago, Archaos said:

You say the Rookie Brig has some good percentages,

We did not say it has some good percentages. We said that Rookie brig dies in 30% of battles. We say one thing you understand another. Does it mean it does not really matter what we say and how we say it? 

Now the general message to veterans
To give a better visualization. Players cannot kill a rookie brig in 65% of battles. Or players are able to sink a rookie brig only in 35% of battles.
We hope all veterans think hard about this number to see the average player perspective.

[Lovec1990]

somebody nerf Hermione that stats are nuts😁

[Archaos]

11 minutes ago, Crow said:

The data is clear.

Shes been used a lot. 

She has won a lot.

She has sank a lot.

The data is not clear when only looked at in percentages without looking at the raw data.

Add a new ship to the data, this ship has just been introduced and has the same stats as a basic cutter, lets call it basic cutter 2, it has taken part in 1 battle maybe against a basic cutter and wins. Work out the percentages for this ship and you get Death Ratio 0%, PvP ratio 100%, PvP K/D ratio infinity. Does that mean it is a super OP ship?

Always be careful when dealing with statistics, they can lead to the wrong assumptions.

I will agree they did say they will monitor the figures over coming months, but I still say the current figures should be treated with care if you are not seeing the underlying raw data.

[Grundgemunkey]

7 minutes ago, admin said:

We did not say it has some good percentages. We said that Rookie brig dies in 30% of battles. We say one thing you understand another. Does it mean it does not really matter what we say and how we say it?

To veterans.. 
To give a better visualization. Players cannot kill a rookie brig in 65% of battles. Or players are able to sink a rookie brig only in 35% of battles.
We hope all veterans think hard about this number to see the average player perspective.

this is where stats fail .... i have been in lots of battles where a new player has joined in a rookie brig  for instance ... and just watched the battle from a distance they have never got in range of been able to shoot or be shot at .. once they have sized up the ships that are in combat and realise theres a good chance they will sink they leave that battle  .. i would give good odds that the stats for the rookie brig .. are skewed by this

[Ellias]

3 minutes ago, Grundgemunkey said:

im not quite sure thats true ... but  if you sail into an enemy green zone  why would you take anything other than a le req ..

Sadly it's true. There are 2 major content zones atm:

1. RvR: in which you rice hostility, counter hostility and do PB's. Bringing as many  L'Oceans is the key.

2. Seal clubbing: Pick the best, fastest ship to enjoy your superiority.

 

You can try hunting on Endymion or Trincomalee for a week and we can talk again about it... 

[Tiedemann]

I still think the LE Requin should get weaker masts so it can be countered more easily, now they are just to hard to kill. They are like the cockroaches!  
I would also still like to see the BR of the Le Requin BR buffed to 5. rate level, to keep it out of shallow pbs and to make it more expensive to bring into deep water pbs. Because it gives the team that brings it a rather huge advantage for very little BR. 

The 250 base crew also makes it the best boarding vessel in it's current class, by far! So just focusing on the boarding vs other ships in the 6. rate class it is pay to win imo 

I bought it because it is "pay to safely escape" and I need that for safe transportation of skill-books.. 😄

[Archaos]

17 minutes ago, admin said:

To veterans.. 
To give a better visualization. Players cannot kill a rookie brig in 65% of battles. Or players are able to sink a rookie brig only in 35% of battles.
We hope all veterans think hard about this number to see the average player perspective.

Again this is the way you interpret the data, which without the full facts can give a flawed picture.

You say that players cannot kill a rookie brig in 65% of battles, but is that in battles where they were trying to kill the rookie brig or was the rookie brig just present in the battle and escaped before anyone could turn their attention to it? Not many players deliberately sail round in rookie brigs looking for PvP, so it is more likely that it is a new player that has capped it from a mission. Maybe someone can clarify, but as far as I am aware the rookie brig cannot be crafted and only appears in lower level missions. So if this is correct then the player either captured the rookie brig or maybe they were even jumped in their mission that was against a rookie brig. Without the full details of the raw data we do not know and the percentages may not be telling the true story.

[z4ys]

30 minutes ago, Tiedemann said:

I still think the LE Requin should get weaker masts so it can be countered more easily

around 5-7 mast hits from a long 6pd with charge makes a front mast of le requin fall. is that still to long?

Edited August 15, 2018 by z4ys

[Raf Van Boom]

The data shows how bad those 5th rates perform: L'Hermione, Renommee, Frigate, Essex etc. Are you planning on adjusting these ships?

[Thonys]

the secret of the l requin is the  upwind speed and acceleration o.0

soo... easily adjustable if you ask me..

the schooner is and will be my checkpoint.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Thonys

[Haggard Blanc]

3 hours ago, z4ys said:

can be done in any ship with mods

But in the Le Requin you don't need any mods to be able to accomplish out running the enemy, which makes it even worse in terms of risk/reward: go sail an unmodified ship to hunt noobs, if you get caught out: no worries as you only lost repairs.

It also seems to be the same few people saying there is nothing wrong with the Le Requin... I have the Hercules DLC and I'm happy to say that it too has issues. A good player of any game realises and admits when something is broken.

As for the stats, numbers can hide many things real ingame experience shows. I have given up giving aid to players (besides advice on how to escape) when I hear a call for help about a Le Requin in our reinforcement zone as no ship I have can give aid in sinking one as they just run even from other Requins

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Haggard Blanc

[Hethwill]

8 minutes ago, Haggard Blanc said:

But in the Le Requin you don't need any mods to be able to accomplish out running the enemy

That is incorrect. Square rigger are able to escape at broad reach. Xebec will barely keep up.

[Haggard Blanc]

8 minutes ago, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

That is incorrect. Square rigger are able to escape at broad reach. Xebec will barely keep up.

But not escape other square riggers... The Le Requin is like no other ship in that it can get away from all ships including another Le Requin. *Let's carry on assuming all ships unmodified

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Haggard Blanc

[Hethwill]

Then L'Hermione can runaway from all other ships, unmodified, all same woods. Or a Renomee, or a Surprise, or... Wait... i been lured out of the Xebec discussion... maybe we are on the right track here... unmodified ships... carry on...carry on.. .this is getting interesting...

Mods you say... hmmmm

[Bluetooth]

This post was originally written by someone complaining about a Hercules sinking his ships but its getting a bit ridiculous now.

To be honest, this is just turning into another DLC Hating Post and I am bored of all the whining and the pay 2 win criers. 😭😭😭

#Admin has shown us all the stats and they are not as wild as some have claimed they would be.

So now, the stats are wrong or misinterpreted.🙄🙄🙄

#Admin has said they will review it all in a month or so.

Yes we all know the ships or the mods need tweaking. But the last DLC ship Nerf changed a lot. So lets see how they settle down.

Try and remember that these DLC ships are mainly sailed by Vets with great mods and so they may seem much much better than they are.

We sank a Hercules last night after a great fight, it was fitted with Copper, Navy hull and Carta and sailed by a good veteran player and it was f$£king tough to sink!!

Although that is what is happening its  not really representative of the Herc is it??

Sometimes black, really is black, no matter how many times your told its white.

#lovethedlc

#lovethegame

 

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Crow

[Haggard Blanc]

Just now, Sir Hethwill the RedDuke said:

Then L'Hermione can runaway from all other ships, unmodified, all same woods. Or a Renomee, or a Surprise, or... Wait... i been lured out of the Xebec discussion... maybe we are on the right track here... unmodified ships... carry on...carry on.. .this is getting interesting...

Mods you say... hmmmm

They can at least be chained 🤣 or even caught/kept up with by another of the same ship/build.

I have seen a Requin escape a 3 v 1 of all Requins by running in a straight line, because it is nearly impossible to slow. If you say you can do that in another ship, I'd love to see that (same builds for the ships) and be proven wrong (and accept I am wrong)

[Guest]

3 hours ago, admin said:

We did not say it has some good percentages. We said that Rookie brig dies in 30% of battles. We say one thing you understand another. Does it mean it does not really matter what we say and how we say it? 

Now the general message to veterans
To give a better visualization. Players cannot kill a rookie brig in 65% of battles. Or players are able to sink a rookie brig only in 35% of battles.
We hope all veterans think hard about this number to see the average player perspective.

are the use of rookie ships including ai? if so, you're implying people doing 7th rate missions where rookie ships spawn other people jump in and kill the player before the rookie ship sinks. Or do you mean people actually sail out doing pvp in rookie ships? because i've never seen them in pvp by players.

[Licinio Chiavari]

1 hour ago, Banished Privateer said:

@admin What is the date range of the data? Data collected From X to Y DD/MM/YYYY. Is it data post-wipe, after adding DLC ships, all time data?

Admin stated: Last 90 days

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, Crow said:

This post was originally written by someone complaining about a Hercules sinking his ships but its getting a bit ridiculous now.

To be honest, this is just turning into another DLC Hating Post and I am bored of all the whining and the pay 2 win criers. 😭😭😭

#Admin has shown us all the stats and they are not as wild as some have claimed they would be.

So now, the stats are wrong or misinterpreted.🙄🙄🙄

#Admin has said they will review it all in a month or so.

Yes we all know the ships or the mods need tweaking. But the last DLC ship Nerf changed a lot. So lets see how they settle down.

Try and remember that these DLC ships are mainly sailed by Vets with great mods and so they may seem much much better than they are.

We sank a Hercules last night after a great fight, it was fitted with Copper, Navy hull and Carta and sailed by a good veteran player and it was f$£king tough to sink!!

Although that is what is happening its  not really representative of the Herc is it??

Sometimes black, really is black, no matter how many times your told its white.

#lovethedlc

#lovethegame

 

 

You understand that a stock Hercules ( without mods ) have an crazy speed and a god sailing profile?

You understand that a stock Requin ( without mods ) can't be catch sailing upwind?

 

I am not saying that is not to blame mods. Yes mods imo needs to be reworked however i am just saying the DLC ships already came with some OP features that needs to be rework.

Edited August 15, 2018 by no one

[Licinio Chiavari]

36 minutes ago, no one said:

You understand that a stock Hercules ( without mods ) have an crazy speed and a god sailing profile?

You understand that a stock Requin ( without mods ) can't be catch sailing upwind?

 

I am not saying that is not to blame mods. Yes mods imo needs to be reworked however i am just saying the DLC ships already came with some OP features that needs to be rework.

What about a stock Prince sailing upwind, a stock Renomee sailing at 150°, a stock Surprise at beam?

Trolling a bit aside:

Rework/nerf all mods (logical groups, diminishing return, etc...), nerf hard spanish/pirate (or totally rework them). Make pirate not working on Requin.

Buff Requin profile as with built in basic (and nerfed) pirate rig.

Result?

No more flying Bellonas, no more uberflying Hercules, no more Requin lo/wo speed capped at close haul, no more Requin flying 15.5 at 130°.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari
Post troll addendum