Le Requin Testing and Feedback

[Raf Van Boom]

Actually I was sailing down to Belize area after a port battle.

[Licinio Chiavari]

1 minute ago, Le Raf Boom said:

Actually I was sailing down to Belize area after a port battle.

I was not referring to pur funny meetups

[Busterbloodvessel]

Has it been considered that the sailing profile of the Requin makes it the perfect griefing ship against new players? For example, prior to its appearance a Basic Cutter had an excellent chance of escaping upwind. The Requin is so much better at all points of sail (no point sailing at 15 degrees ofc) that there is no escape direction for the new player (see speed chart below).

To be able to build a ship big enough to resist the Requin and its masses of crew takes too long and new players will need either to buy a Requin themselves or become disheartened and leave the game. This will change the nature of the game introduction and stifle light ship trading (Trader's Lynx is buggered too) like a poison weed in a garden of flowers.

 

Buster (One prominent green finger to the Requin profile)

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Busterbloodvessel

[Licinio Chiavari]

8 minutes ago, Busterbloodvessel said:

Has it been considered that the sailing profile of the Requin makes it the perfect griefing ship against new players? For example, prior to its appearance a Basic Cutter had an excellent chance of escaping upwind. The Requin is so much better at all points of sail (no point sailing at 15 degrees ofc) that there is no escape direction for the new player (see speed chart below).

To be able to build a ship big enough to resist the Requin and its masses of crew takes too long and new players will need either to buy a Requin themselves or become disheartened and leave the game. This will change the nature of the game introduction and stifle light ship trading further like a poison weed in a garden of flowers.

 

Buster (One prominent green finger to the Requin profile)

 

You're correct. Ship (and damned MODS!) rebalance is needed.

On the other hand...

a) no one attacks basic cutters

b) new players jump pretty fast directly to 5th rates

c) for a new player is far more dishearthing and economically crippling losing a new Surprise than some unrated. And they will lose it against any raider on any ship

d) in general a new player will lose his unrated ship against any passing vet, even if the latter is on a basic cutter

e) as a sidenote: it is plain unreal that a schooner maximum speed is at close haul and she's slowed at broad reach.

Making them simply faster would (coupled with mods nerf) solve the issue you pointed.

[Aquillas]

7 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

a) no one attacks basic cutters

In front of KPR yesterday and earlier in the week, I saw requins attacking basic cutters. 

Some players can't resist... Just a shame.

And as pseudo safe areas are now the maximum danger locations, new players go to being killed even more easily around capitals, the place were they are mostly because they spawn in game there. 

Around capitals is the most dangerous places in game. It is the place where hunters find new players and easy targets.

[Aquillas]

In other words:

A basic cutter can't tag a player. Why can it be tagged by a player? 

[Licinio Chiavari]

24 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

In front of KPR yesterday and earlier in the week, I saw requins attacking basic cutters. 

Some players can't resist... Just a shame.

And as pseudo safe areas are now the maximum danger locations, new players go to being killed even more easily around capitals, the place were they are mostly because they spawn in game there. 

Around capitals is the most dangerous places in game. It is the place where hunters find new players and easy targets.

Make more people getting out of Capitol and spread... and the Capitol camping will be solved.

I read plenty ideas: no shipyards, ship craft limited to 5th, 1/3 of production, no nice stuff dropping around,etc...

So make people fastly leaving safe zone and SPREAD AROUND. So no more super high target population in there. So no more packs of sharks coming all the day there.

[Barbancourt]

1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Make more people getting out of Capitol and spread... and the Capitol camping will be solved.

I read plenty ideas: no shipyards, ship craft limited to 5th, 1/3 of production, no nice stuff dropping around,etc...

 

It would be very crippling to lose your shipyards and all the supplies gathered there to build ships, and if your safe shipyards were limited to 5th rates how would you ever capture and hold anything if you got beaten back to your reinforcement zone?  The raiders would gather like vultures around any gains you made knowing all your trade had to be flowing in and out of there.

 

[Jean Ribault]

2 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

 

It would be very crippling to lose your shipyards and all the supplies gathered there to build ships, and if your safe shipyards were limited to 5th rates how would you ever capture and hold anything if you got beaten back to your reinforcement zone?  The raiders would gather like vultures around any gains you made knowing all your trade had to be flowing in and out of there.

 

That's very true.

You know, the flipside to that is it might make rvr more important and also discourage nation flipping?

[Bluetooth]

4 hours ago, Aquillas said:

In front of KPR yesterday and earlier in the week, I saw requins attacking basic cutters. 

Some players can't resist... Just a shame.

And as pseudo safe areas are now the maximum danger locations, new players go to being killed even more easily around capitals, the place were they are mostly because they spawn in game there. 

Around capitals is the most dangerous places in game. It is the place where hunters find new players and easy targets.

I attacked and sank a basic cutter 3 days ago buy portillo.

It was sailed by a rear admiral and followed us for 10 mins.

I have a rule of thumb, engage basic cutters. If sailed by post captain or higher sink it.

Basic cutters should only be sailed by recently killed as a get home ship not a spy ship which also moves books etc.

They are the most abuse ships in the game.

If you saw them attacked they were probably spying and deserved the plank.

And this is hardly a requin problem is it ??

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Crow

[Sparkydog]

Why not keep it simple-- make the requin a fifth rate- 5ths commonly had 215-300 crew so it fits right in there.  Fix the bowsprit does nothing bug- because it's definitely there to help support the masts.  Don't allow any pirate rig on xebecs- we block other permanent mods, so why not this? Nothing too drastic - it would help balance them.

[Aquillas]

9 hours ago, Crow said:

I attacked and sank a basic cutter 3 days ago buy portillo.

It was sailed by a rear admiral and followed us for 10 mins.

I have a rule of thumb, engage basic cutters. If sailed by post captain or higher sink it.

Basic cutters should only be sailed by recently killed as a get home ship not a spy ship which also moves books etc.

They are the most abuse ships in the game.

If you saw them attacked they were probably spying and deserved the plank.

And this is hardly a requin problem is it ??

 

I agree to this. 

The question is not as simple to solve as I wrote it above. May be, we would need stronger reinforcement if the attacked player has a low rank (1st rate for the three lowest, decreasing then with player gaining experience)

[Bluetooth]

32 minutes ago, Aquillas said:

I agree to this. 

The question is not as simple to solve as I wrote it above. May be, we would need stronger reinforcement if the attacked player has a low rank (1st rate for the three lowest, decreasing then with player gaining experience)

I would rather have a solid no attack zone so new players can grow in peace until they feel confident enough to venture out.

[Sea Fox]

This may have already been addressed  but this chart doesn't take into account MODS (killer of the game)

[Licinio Chiavari]

7 minutes ago, Sea Fox said:

This may have already been addressed  but this chart doesn't take into account MODS (killer of the game)

The majority of vet whining... are the same who want the Requin nerfed to death (because they arent feeling safe anymore sailing on supermodded Trinco killing 1st rate and disengaging any serious threat) but do not want to nerf mods (because they'll have not anymore supermodded ships able to overpower any normal one and flee from superior force).

[Lord Amplify of Key West]

can someone please explain to me why requin is a 6th rate and not a 5th rate? way to go screw up pb's and a good shallow port battle meta ? just make it a 5th rate please

[Raekur]

Dont forget that people were not engaging in pvp as not wanting to lose their larger ships. Add to that how long it takes to make ships now (gathering supplies and materials). So their answer was to introduce these pay to win ships that respawn if lost in 24 hours and since you paid for it the ship will be overpowered when compared to other ships of equal class. Next closest ship has only 60% of the broadside firepower and 45 fewer crew. I would not be surprised if the game evolves into players only using the DLC ships because there is no risk involved in losing them now. The part that is going to suck is the players who are new that get ripped to pieces by these things (and the Herc) before even getting to the point of having over 200 crew (and before you say I dont know what I am talking about, my wife and I just got jumped by 3 of these DLC ships and a Prince). So even IF we had managed to sink one of these bottom feeders, they would just get their ship back the next day FREE of charge. Who thought this was a grand idea??? There is your example of lop sided play balance. Pay to win as a default, does not give a game good reviews.

 

[speijk]

in my eyes there 2  things wrong whit this ship

1. this ship sails are not the problem,  the hull is not the problem. she should get a crew dmg multiplier 1.4 til 1.6 (on full hull hp basis) i would say.

reason:  she is a boarding vessel, her crew is always on top of the deck.

2. i have a suggestion to even the pvp willingnes.

make the ships sunk only sunk by dlc redeemble too for a insurrance fee too be choicen if u want to use it at leaving of the battle  !  i cant cap a requin. it should not be able to get double chances aslo(sunk or cap)

u get the ship u lost back for a mats or coin fee. whit the same wood / trim / 3rd bonus / amount of perm slots same timer as a requin. 24hours should give the player also the chance to beg his friends, for the money or earn it.

or

2.5 make a dlc where u can insure one or 2 ships.

reason:

i wil not risk a purple / golden ship  for a requin fight aslong as he dont have a risk but i do.

i have too consider the dmg it would do to my playtime. ( do i need to replace the ship?, Collect and move the mats waste tons of labour hours/mats  to get a golden / purple back)

whilst he can Consider okay if i lose i have a 24hours to play whit otherships or do something else.

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

20 hours ago, Crow said:

I would rather have a solid no attack zone so new players can grow in peace until they feel confident enough to venture out.

Pushing players out of the not safe zones won’t help.  I don’t get where the guys think forcing some one to do something they don’t want to do.  It’s like for ring PvPers to go play on the PVE server for a week.  Some folks just want to play the game casually, kill some AI and not get tanked every two seconds.  This is the meat of the players if this game.  Don’t see why it’s so hard to let them have a true safe zone in the easy nations.  You don’t want safe zones than don’t play an easy nation.  You want RvR/PvP than go pick a fight with a RVR/PvP owned port.  Every time one of the good high dollar ports gets hit there is tons of PVP and RvR for all involved.  Those ports should never be off Afro cool down ever.  

13 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

The majority of vet whining... are the same who want the Requin nerfed to death (because they arent feeling safe anymore sailing on supermodded Trinco killing 1st rate and disengaging any serious threat) but do not want to nerf mods (because they'll have not anymore supermodded ships able to overpower any normal one and flee from superior force).

I really don’t see any one asking to nerf it to death except a few non vets that don’t understand the game mechanics.  The Vets keep asking for the same thing.  Make it a 5th rate to fix the high mod stacking of its already high crew which is 100 more than any 6th rate in game.  Give both it and the Herc proper BR around 140 to match its in game stats.  That is not nerfing it to death.  I don’t see why we don’t just run those simple fixes first along with a few bug issues.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Sir Texas Sir

[Bluetooth]

Agree but it's not a fifth rate.

Lower it's hull a tad.

Higher BR.

Solid safe zone.

Sorted.

Now where's me barbary flag????....

Edited August 20, 2018 by Crow

[Bluetooth]

13 hours ago, Sea Fox said:

This may have already been addressed  but this chart doesn't take into account MODS (killer of the game)

This. ^^ right there.

[Sir Texas Sir]

24 minutes ago, Crow said:

Agree but it's not a fifth rate.

Lower it's hull a tad.

Higher BR.

Solid safe zone.

Sorted.

Now where's me barbary flag????....

That still doesn’t fix the crew stacking problems.  Herc isn’t a 5th either.  It’s about game balance not realistic things.  Other wise wouldn’t the Aggy and Ingermanland be moved back to the 3rd rate slot

[Yngvarr]

On 6/8/2018 at 8:59 PM, Lovec1990 said:

deal, but still adding another 5th rate is kinda wrong we have more 5th rates than all SOLs we need more ships of the line

Partially agreed.

In larger scale naval battles, the main body of the fleet were 3rd rates. 1st and 2nd rates were the tip of the spear.

And frigates and sloops in support.

So i would suggest we need more 3rd rates harder then we need more 1st and 2nd rates.

[Bluetooth]

250 crew is fine and she was a 6th rate.

To get more crew you need to use knowledge slots and mods. It was a boarding ship.

To do that means you are not using those slots for anything else.

It's like saying that an ballona is fine but should not be able to use combat mods because it already has a lot of guns.

Having sailed the xebec for a while now I would say that the speed nerf was spot on. She is no longer able to catch all ships downwind. (She will always catch over armoured fat navy ships).

Sail damage is fine and more players now realise that ball vs mast is best. (Problem is most players dont really know how to shoot).

I would say though that the really OP xebecs tend to be abused mod ones.

Example which I HATE:

Like live/white oak, copper, elite pirate, art of  ship handling,

Reinforced sail, shooty mod, shooty mod, shooty mod, shooty mod.

These are not what the xebec was.

However that's a mod thing, not a ship thing. ( and a crappy player abuse thing).

My recommendation would be to lower it's thickness and hull a bit more and Look at mod structure/stacking for all ships to create a more balanced game for everyone.

Plus hard safe zone for new players.

(First 5 levels or so).

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Crow
Crappy spelling

[Dibbler (Retired)]

7 minutes ago, Crow said:

250 crew is fine and she was a 6th rate.

 

 

 

 You do realise that the Herc was made a 5th rate for the same reasons and has less crew than req lol..... crew space/hammocks/light ship hammocks?

 

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Dibbler