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Juan Navarre

Why doesn't the map show where I am?

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1 hour ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

A real age of sail simulation of how to operate a ship of decent size would be too hard for many gamers and I can already anticipate complaints about what they could not cope with...

I can appreciate that.  Which is why I have only made suggestions that would have no effect on the casual gamer who's only interest is to shoot things quickly and often. 

I disagree though that it would not be profitable to attract players who have an interest in history and sailing.

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47 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

I disagree though that it would not be profitable to attract players who have an interest in history and sailing.

We attract those already, don't we?

I figure the amount of purists you can attract in addition, when implementing (more) real nautical instruments and 18th century period procedures which need to be learned first, is so low compared with the amount of kids you scare off meantime by the same implementations - means a loss in balance. Sorry to say that but we cannot expect from a studio to head into dangerous waters this way, by exchanging a few more hardcore captains on the plus side for a considerable mass of casuals on the minus side, jumping into the sea in panic...

And I wish it were different...

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59 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

We attract those already, don't we?

I figure the amount of purists you can attract in addition, when implementing (more) real nautical instruments and 18th century period procedures which need to be learned first, is so low compared with the amount of kids you scare off meantime by the same implementations - means a loss in balance. Sorry to say that but we cannot expect from a studio to head into dangerous waters this way, by exchanging a few more hardcore captains on the plus side for a considerable mass of casuals on the minus side, jumping into the sea in panic...

And I wish it were different...

Time shown that simulator/realistic player market is so small that it is not worth investing in those waters. It's so small that even movie Master and Commander 2 did score only 100k requests and failed. Russell Crowe sent out personal request to fans to write letters to movie studio, but there were simply not enough history fans. This is a first warning sign when trying to build a fully realistic sailing simulator mmo. 

From my point of view if Developer ignores some realistic features and brings a mix of interesting content to Naval Action we will see a positive shift. They need to ignore those simulator fans and start scripting stories, scenarios, missions etc...

Edited by Wind

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Given sailaway has a strong community and plenty of events almost as similar to iracing at start, you are miles off from the target. Granted, it is no NA with all the shooting, but sims do have some of the strongest and enduring communities. And money to spend if you look at it correctly.

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5 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

The game as it is already can be labeled 'hardcore', we should be grateful for the amount of casual-play-denying features it has.

As much as I like accuracy, historical feeling, immersion myself (yeah, let me use a sextant, too), I understand the economic interests of the studio, having to make compromises towards the gamer audience, as much as possible and excusable, in order to stay profitable. A real age of sail simulation of how to operate a ship of decent size would be too hard for many gamers and I can already anticipate complaints about what they could not cope with...

Plus, there is this sportsman type of gamer who goes all for achievements and 'marks', he does not like sailing ships per se, he does operate tanks, planes, or triangles and squares, no matter what, for making points and leading charts, publishing videos of his performances. Those players also don't give a damn about historical content. Sad thing. But the market has to reckon with them, too.

Do you think that replacing the modern heading indicator with an 18th century binnacle would make the game too hardcore?

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47 minutes ago, Juan Navarre said:

Do you think that replacing the modern heading indicator with an 18th century binnacle would make the game too hardcore?

In the sense how you described it in a previous post, hard to read in bad weather, and all this, I am afraid so. But one would have to see your design proposal as a picture to give a definite answer.

Actually the best solution to all this hardcore-versus-casual discussion would be, if the player could chose from a number of interface instruments which range from easy to use to hardcore-authentic for setting up his favorite tool board. So he could switch from the heading indicator to the binnacle and back for trying out, not having to suffer if he does not harmonize with a single pre-set solution.

Could even be handled in such way that the purists who use the rustic authentic equipment earn more experience in game than the ones who have chosen the more helpful modern equivalents. As a compensation for accompanying difficulties in game.

But alas - this is too much to ask from a two devs studio. And I wonder if the invested work would pay off in better sales, by pleasing both communities - hardcore historic sail-sim and casual players. It's guesswork.

Edited by Cetric de Cornusiac

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4 hours ago, Wind said:

Time shown that simulator/realistic player market is so small that it is not worth investing in those waters. It's so small that even movie Master and Commander 2 did score only 100k requests and failed. Russell Crowe sent out personal request to fans to write letters to movie studio, but there were simply not enough history fans. This is a first warning sign when trying to build a fully realistic sailing simulator mmo. 

From my point of view if Developer ignores some realistic features and brings a mix of interesting content to Naval Action we will see a positive shift. They need to ignore those simulator fans and start scripting stories, scenarios, missions etc...

I disagree. Time has shown that the simulator/realistic player market is so small that it is not worth investing in those waters, for Ubisoft. If you aren't Ubisoft yet, it is the perfect market to invest in. The demographic of people like myself who want to play a historically accurate sailing sim are a niche, but a large enough niche to form a solid customer base for a small studio.

A two dev team can make a sim that those 100k fans who wanted to to see Master and Commander 2 will buy instead of AC Black Flag. If they try to appeal to a larger, more mainstream gaming market, they will lose the niche players who want a historical naval sim, and they still won't gain the more mainstream players, because then the two dev team has to try and compete with Ubisoft.

Besides, Laminar Research has has stayed in business since 1998 making sims for this theoretically unworthy market of sim fans. Probably due in part to how realistically their compasses look and behave.

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50 minutes ago, Juan Navarre said:

 If they try to appeal to a larger, more mainstream gaming market, they will lose the niche players who want a historical naval sim

Too which game, I may ask? Do you know a current up-to-date game which could overtake Naval Action as flagship of the (semi-)hardcore age of sail game?

What I want to say is, when there is no concurring game which will steal away the crew, the niche players will stay on board no matter if NA is more or a little less as rustic as they would like it to be...

That's good.

Can also imagine a DLC later which will offer the ultimate purist interface instruments in exchange of the 'compromise' ones which give better accessibility.

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26 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Too which game, I may ask? Do you know a current up-to-date game which could overtake Naval Action as flagship of the (semi-)hardcore age of sail game?

What I want to say is, when there is no concurring game which will steal away the crew, the niche players will stay on board no matter if NA is more or a little less as rustic as they would like it to be...

That's good.

Can also imagine a DLC later which will offer the ultimate purist interface instruments in exchange of the 'compromise' ones which give better accessibility.

To Chess.

I didn't come across NA while looking for a new game to buy. I came across it while doing some research for a writing project. The top Google result for "how did a first rate tack" was a video of someone tacking a first rate in naval action. I thought to myself, "what a fine thing it would be to not just read about tacking a first rate, but to try it for myself and get a more holistic understanding of the challenges of 18th century seafaring!" So I went to the Steam page, and read about how the ships are based on accurate historical designs, with accurate sailing profiles in a world based on 18th century maps. Needless to say, I was sold.

If the actual game experience is going to mostly consist of getting seal-clubbed by spawn-campers whose nautical skill amounts to aiming cannons like sniper rifles, then I won't be lost to any rival nautical simulation, I will simply be lost to other interests. It seems unlikely to me that I should be the first player to ever feel that way.

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I would love to see these things that we are discussing implemented. I understand that it's not for everyone. My suggestion would be that as they would be done they would be turned off on the PVP server allowing those that don't like them to play there. The purists can play on the PVE server where it fits better. It's also another thing that could be done to give the PVE server more value. Also it's a good place to test these things.

Have to go. Fair sailing and a grand day/night.

 

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5 hours ago, Juan Navarre said:

Do you think that replacing the modern heading indicator with an 18th century binnacle would make the game too hardcore?

For the current NA community it would be a very serious shock and cause an up-swell of anger, perhaps even rage.

What I would politely suggest is that we add any interesting features as "options" rather than requirements.  People seem to accept items more easily if they are 'added content' and not 'forced restrictions'.  With a few extra improvements the  players who are keen about old time seafaring might be enticed to stay, and as a bonus become extra targets for hunters.

49 minutes ago, EdWatchmaker said:

The purists can play on the PVE server where it fits better. It's also another thing that could be done to give the PVE server more value.

Both servers would benefit from cool options.  I have very little desire to use the PvE server. Perhaps if it's population was double that of the PvP server I would be interested in finding out why.   The risk of playing on the PvP server makes it more exciting.    There is a story of conflict and alliances on the  PvP server that makes the gameplay interesting.  There are more chances to find someone to trade with.    Confining purists  to the PvE server, just to avoid adding few optional features to the PvP server, would not be much of an improvement.

 

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Perhaps allow people to hire navigator in port that gets better over time (shrinking circle/area  of where you could possibly be), and if ship is ever sunk navigator lost and would have to "train" another.

Navigators gain skill per distance OW travelled outside rienforced zones.

Edited by Dibbler
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4 hours ago, Dibbler said:

Perhaps allow people to hire navigator in port that gets better over time (shrinking circle/area  of where you could possibly be), and if ship is ever sunk navigator lost and would have to "train" another.

Navigators gain skill per distance OW travelled outside rienforced zones.

Nicely fits into my suggestion about specialized crew hiring and officers with various talents I sent in some weeks ago.

 

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17 hours ago, Macjimm said:
On 5/31/2018 at 12:16 PM, Juan Navarre said:

 

For the current NA community it would be a very serious shock and cause an up-swell of anger, perhaps even rage.

I don't understand why. It seems like there is demand for more content, when the interface is actively suppressing content that is already there.

Get rid of that grey arrow, and suddenly you have a new "determine the wind direction" minigame. I don't get how people who value a game for it's authentic ship designs and sailing profiles can be the same people who would get angry about having to read which way the wind blows as part of a sailing game.

That isn't some esoteric hardcore bit of minutia. It is at least is basic and fundamental as points of sail and differential yard control.

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On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 11:11 PM, Sir Texas Sir said:

It has never been a simulator and when we had the Long/Lat it was fine, just a bunch of hard core players cried about it and got it changed. Honestly most of those players where using third party apps too.  I know a lot of guys do so it really didn't change anything other than making it harder on the new players.   No one has ever asked for GPS dots on the map, just the tools you would have at that time to get your general location on charts/maps like they would.   

yep, they had sextants, you could even setup a skill set that could be trained in (ala Eve), that would allow you to train in navigation in order to be able to 1.  Use it, 2.  Use it proficiently 3.  Be a navigating God.

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As far as realism goes I think it's incredibly stupid to think that someone put in command of a vessel would be unable to figure out basic navigation methods like figuring out ones location. 

If you want to add a bit of authenticity to it make an observation button or something, pointless if you ask me.  Everyone just uses the coordinates anyway, super realistic.  Also realism does not always make good gameplay. 

It takes too long to sail anywhere in this game.  We shouldnt need a magic tow button to move ships around to compensate for how long it takes.  Its already unrealistic how would making it faster hurt.  If anyone wants to sail around this map in real time they are mad.  

Edited by beagleplease

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On 5/31/2018 at 3:16 PM, Oberon74 said:

If you want to go hard core even more, you can use a sextant to determine if another ship is getting closer or farther.  Simply by comparing the angle between his mast head and waterline over time.

Why would you even need to do this??????? When you can simply look at the other vessel and if it is getting bigger it is getting closer and if it is getting smaller it is getting farther away. No need for sextant angles and any form of calculation. In actual fact the difference in angle would be so minuscule at long range that the error in the accuracy of the reading from a moving ship would make the readings worthless.

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