New player experience

[Mr Pellew]

I think the difference would be everyone can fill the contract you placed and it works for ships. 

For example I really need a new Trinc in LT. I place a contract to buy  a Teak/WO Trinc in LT for 1 Mil. Now if someone comes along and he has a Teak/WO he could sell it directly to me. Basically the same as buy contracts for other things.

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

buy contracts are an essential part of an economy, we have them for resources so if there are none in port you can create a demand by offering up a price for anyone who can deliver.

I see what you are saying, but im wondering how that affects the big picture.  If you can do everything by contract, don't you encourage a player to never leave port? Or never join a clan?

[Gregory Rainsborough]

37 minutes ago, Nelsons Barrel said:

 it's already hard for experienced players to cap a 5th rate with a brig

It is not.

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, Mr Pellew said:

I think the difference would be everyone can fill the contract you placed and it works for ships. 

For example I really need a new Trinc in LT. I place a contract to buy  a Teak/WO Trinc in LT for 1 Mil. Now if someone comes along and he has a Teak/WO he could sell it directly to me. Basically the same as buy contracts for other things.

 

[Slim McSauce]

4 minutes ago, Mr Pellew said:

I think the difference would be everyone can fill the contract you placed and it works for ships. 

For example I really need a new Trinc in LT. I place a contract to buy  a Teak/WO Trinc in LT for 1 Mil. Now if someone comes along and he has a Teak/WO he could sell it directly to me. Basically the same as buy contracts for other things.

would promote economy around the map as well. if my clan takes a port in the gulf and we place a buy order for 10 aggies for example, people will sail out to make that demand. if that demand is consistent enough, people will base in that area because it's consistent money. more people in the area=more hunters.

required a good amount of pop but still, I see no reason not to include a buy order system for ships. In my perspective it would only improve the game.
On topic there's a lot of mechanics not explained, and some are not self evident so there should be some kind of tutorial namely for OW assets since we already have a pretty thorough battle tutorial.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

1 minute ago, Mr Pellew said:

I think the difference would be everyone can fill the contract you placed and it works for ships. 

For example I really need a new Trinc in LT. I place a contract to buy  a Teak/WO Trinc in LT for 1 Mil. Now if someone comes along and he has a Teak/WO he could sell it directly to me. Basically the same as buy contracts for other things.

Yes that works if you want to buy a general purpose ship, but what if you want something more specialised? The crafters who craft numbers of ships would know which materials are best for speed, or tankiness, or any combination thereof surely if a client asked for a commerce raider a crafter would build a fast ship of the desired rate that is suitable for commerce raiding at an agreed price.

[Angus MacDuff]

Going back to my recent experience as a new player, I agree with Slim.  I had to do a lot of research to figure things out.  Now granted, I'm smarter than most (better looking too), but it would have been very pleasant if there had been some form of structured learning facility for me.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Oberon74
sp

[Mr Pellew]

5 minutes ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

Yes that works if you want to buy a general purpose ship, but what if you want something more specialised? The crafters who craft numbers of ships would know which materials are best for speed, or tankiness, or any combination thereof surely if a client asked for a commerce raider a crafter would build a fast ship of the desired rate that is suitable for commerce raiding at an agreed price.

That would be an expliotable system in my opinion. It has to be specific. If I place a contract for a "5th rate hunting ship" somone could sell me a fir/for Rennome and in theory he would fill the contract but it's pretty much a useless ship.

And if we are honest there will be a lot of people selling shitty ships for a lot of money if they get the chance to and that doesn't help a new player at all.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Mr Pellew

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

2 minutes ago, Mr Pellew said:

That would be an expliotable system in my opinion. It has to be specific. If I place a contract for a "5th rate hunting ship" somone could sell me a fir/for Rennome and in theory he would fill the contract but it's pretty much a useless ship

They could, but they'd be out of business real fast once word got around, for example, if you bought a car from a dealership that persistently broke down you would not go to him for another, on top of that you'd tell your friends not to buy from him either. Anyone who trades anything is dependent on a good reputation, lose your reputation and you lose your business.

It helps also to tell the crafter what you want exactly, if you tell him you want a commerce raiding Endy he would not build you a commerce raiding Indy. One should always remember the age old caveat buyer beware if you are not specific about what you need.

[Angus MacDuff]

3 minutes ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

They could, but they'd be out of business real fast once word got around, for example, if you bought a car from a dealership that persistently broke down you would not go to him for another, on top of that you'd tell your friends not to buy from him either. Anyone who trades anything is dependent on a good reputation, lose your reputation and you lose your business.

It helps also to tell the crafter what you want exactly, if you tell him you want a commerce raiding Endy he would not build you a commerce raiding Indy. One should always remember the age old caveat buyer beware if you are not specific about what you need.

New players will not be buying custom crafted ships

[Mr Pellew]

1 minute ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

They could, but they'd be out of business real fast once word got around, for example, if you bought a car from a dealership that persistently broke down you would not go to him for another, on top of that you'd tell your friends not to buy from him either. Anyone who trades anything is dependent on a good reputation, lose your reputation and you lose your business.

It helps also to tell the crafter what you want exactly, if you tell him you want a commerce raiding Endy he would not build you a commerce raiding Indy. One should always remember the age old caveat buyer beware if you are not specific about what you need.

That would mean I could choose who can fill my contract. I think if it were to be put in the game you have to give the player the option to be very specific about what they want. Maybe make it cost a little more to put up a specific contract but I for one would never ever put up a contract for an endy if I was not the one deciding the build.

[Nelsons Barrel]

Yeah sorry for the shorted answers, on mobile i dont write walls of texts.

This problem I expierienced myself, I have lots of alts and a working eco, but I really wanted to give it a try and play the game as a newb would do. So I started in a brand new nation (It's called beginner friendly in the opening screen...) and completed the tutorial. I sailed around and checked for storeships but the best thing I could find was a npc-frigate, no playermade ship was usefull for the price it was asked for. At this point I was so upset and stopped my new-expierience-project, because I got stuck.

The current problem is for new players to get stuck eventually when they dont want to build up their own economy. Pretty much a SOLO-economy is not working. 5 building slots,  of whom you need 2 for cannons and shipyard-buildings. So 3 free for rescources, too bad we have more than 3 rescources. EU-traders are a hidden feature and limited to use as the rescourcecosts are pretty high compared to an ethan doe-player, who has at least 12 eco alts and can sell first rates for dumping prices.

So what can you do when you start the game, eventually reach 400 crew and see that the ports only sell oak crew space renomees or at a highest an oak essex? pretty much nothing. You have to buy what somebody put on the market - trash or to prices I wouldnt even start to think of buying a 5th rate for 2 millions. You get stuck at this point. Especially when you get farmed by trying to get the level on this kind of trash ship.

Even with the current 'you can cap 5th rates'-system... With 400 crew you can sail 4th rates. But you don't get them anywhere, so you get stuck at latest here.

Currently its a rarety to see proper ships on the market. Everyone actively playing this game produces ships for himself or his clanmates, no market involved. If something goes to the market its trash or 'not good enough for selfconsumption'. But still I would say that every active player has capacities to produce more cheap ships than he crafts right now. So why not use these capacites to sell for a coin or two?

 

And this guys is the real reason, you dont see new players in this game, if not helped by vets you get stuck - and you quit.

 

So why not implemend a contract system as suggested before? 'I need a teak/wo trinc and have half a mill, would somebody be so kind and craft it?' - ezpz.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Nelsons Barrel

[Nelsons Barrel]

30 minutes ago, Mr Pellew said:

That would mean I could choose who can fill my contract. I think if it were to be put in the game you have to give the player the option to be very specific about what they want. Maybe make it cost a little more to put up a specific contract but I for one would never ever put up a contract for an endy if I was not the one deciding the build.

The contract should be like you open a ship note, you choose the wood and planking, the rest is up to the seller. A higher specialised contract system for choosing how many perm slots or trim I see rather optional than really needed.

[Hethwill]

13 minutes ago, Nelsons Barrel said:

the best thing I could find was a npc-frigate, no playermade ship was usefull for the price it was asked for

This is definitely NOT a newcomer, fresh without any previous knowledge.

o7

[Nelsons Barrel]

4 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

This is definitely NOT a newcomer, fresh without any previous knowledge.

o7

Yeah, does it make the situation any better to not know how you get farmed by your own nationcrafters and after that outside in OW by every other nation?

[z4ys]

Certain things are not useful in the mind of a meta gamer. Everything is useful for a newcomer. 

Vets can easily poison newcomers with their mentality of  how to look at the game and certain things.

Nobody has to trade to actually play the game. But trading generates the most profit =meta mentality

Always use the best equipment = meta mentality

Only first rates are real ships = meta mentality

Because of that new players forget to enjoy the small things and they put themselves under high pressure to succeed and how can someone enjoy a game that applies pressure. But it's not the game itself it's all in the gamers head because he doesn't know otherwise.

Edited May 25, 2018 by z4ys

[Hethwill]

Again, all pre-conception built on your experience.

I've done the experience several times. Hard to mimic the mindset but is not impossible. Simply forget all meta, try everything again. ( yes, testing can be like that... )

A newcomer would get a Snow from the shop, and then maybe a Renomee or a Surprise, they are what ? 40 - 70k sold by NPC shop ?

Mostly a Frigate, for 84k.

Only after a good amount of hours they start picking up details about builds. They start installing the modules, getting books and tweaking their own ships ans scrutinizing the shop for player crafted ones.

That I can tell you with all certainty is what a Newcomer does.

A returning veteran does what you say - he knows what to look for and can't find it.

 

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

Again, all pre-conception built on your experience.

I've done the experience several times. Hard to mimic the mindset but is not impossible.

A newcomer would get a Snow from the shop, and then maybe a Renomee or a Surprise, they are what ? 70k sold by NPC shop ?

Mostly a Frigate, for 84k.

Only after a good amount of hours they start picking up details about builds. They start installing the modules, getting books and tweaking their own ships ans scrutinizing the shop for player crafted ones.

That I can tell you with all certainty is what a Newcomer does.

A returning veteran does what you say - he knows what to look for and can't find it.

 

Pretty much my early game experience.  And I had a lot of fun doing it

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

40 minutes ago, Mr Pellew said:

That would mean I could choose who can fill my contract. I think if it were to be put in the game you have to give the player the option to be very specific about what they want. Maybe make it cost a little more to put up a specific contract but I for one would never ever put up a contract for an endy if I was not the one deciding the build.

Choosing the build should be a part of the contract anyway, a responsible crafter would surely advise you on the optimal build, whether you choose to accept that or select a different option is solely your prerogative, after all, you, the client, would be placing a bespoke order for a ship. Some clients would place the matter in the hands of the crafter, others, like yourself would exercise more control over what you buy, either way it would be the clients choice. 

[Nelsons Barrel]

5 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Again, all pre-conception built on your experience.

I've done the experience several times. Hard to mimic the mindset but is not impossible. Simply forget all meta, try everything again. ( yes, testing can be like that... )

A newcomer would get a Snow from the shop, and then maybe a Renomee or a Surprise, they are what ? 40 - 70k sold by NPC shop ?

Mostly a Frigate, for 84k.

Only after a good amount of hours they start picking up details about builds. They start installing the modules, getting books and tweaking their own ships ans scrutinizing the shop for player crafted ones.

That I can tell you with all certainty is what a Newcomer does.

A returning veteran does what you say - he knows what to look for and can't find it.

 

I tried to find an oak oak ship or comparable for below 750k. Not a thing that would be 'meta'.

But yeah, have fun with your thousands of newcomers we don't have. I told you a reason we dont have new players and you are just picking out the reasons why I am wrong and you are so much better than I am. Not helpfull.

[Hethwill]

I am a player same as you. Plus when I asked for honest reply I expected one. You weren't. You're no newcomer and you know it.

I posted several suggestions made by players, same as you, on how to improve the trade craft system, without whining about it.

Follow good examples, not the worst.

o7

 

[Nelsons Barrel]

2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

I am a player same as you. Plus when I asked for honest reply I expected one. You weren't. You're no newcomer and you know it.

I posted several suggestions made by players, same as you, on how to improve the trade craft system, without whining about it.

Follow good examples, not the worst.

o7

 

Thinking that your own oppinion is worth more than mine is just plain wrong. I intended to level up as fast as possible, you just play brigs. Two different things. Equally worth an expression. I end it here. I stopped playing this game. Playerbase is currently below 400 and at a point of no return.

[z4ys]

2 minutes ago, Nelsons Barrel said:

Thinking that your own oppinion is worth more than mine is just plain wrong. I intended to level up as fast as possible, you just play brigs. Two different things. Equally worth an expression. I end it here. I stopped playing this game. Playerbase is currently below 400 and at a point of no return.

Why you want to lvl as fast as possible? What's the benefit?

[Nelsons Barrel]

1 minute ago, z4ys said:

Why you want to lvl as fast as possible? What's the benefit?

Progress. Some players play games to reach end level/endboss as fast as possible.

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Why you want to lvl as fast as possible? What's the benefit?

None.  I dislike the immediate promotion to M&S that we have now.  The new player needs to rank up slowly and learn as he goes