Reinforcement fleets: feedback

[PG Monkey]

5 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

I'm sure there's plenty of traders in nation that absolutely love an escort...  you should post something in chat.

Other than that, there is ZERO difference between "Missions" and finding AI fleets out in the OW (except for the fact that missions keep players from adding to the OW player-base)...

 

And attacking open world fleets helps you learn how to get a decent tag and use the wind

[Busterbloodvessel]

Perhaps the green zone should be preserved for the new players to avoid easy PvP harvesting. 

The thought being that green zones should only apply to players up to a certain rank such that they can experience the delights of the game before they get throttled in their home harbour. In such circumstances AI reinforcement should revert to first rates on all occasions to deter the unscrupulous PvP green zone sniper.

To identify Willy the low rank enemy player in the green zone perhaps either:

• his nation tag could appear green rather than red when he is identified or,
• perhaps fly some sort of open world reinforcement flag (green?) making it the responsibility of the attacker to check his risk; with attacks in the dark in the green zone being very dangerous.

When attacked, ARSE the higher ranking player gets no AI reinforcement whatever at any time.

If a higher ranking player is attacked in the green zone then this should not drag in Willy the low ranker, Willy must choose to join a battle after the incidence starts and with no reinforcement.

By 'high ranking' I think this should apply to the top two ranks in each nation only. The last 120,000 XP points take a little bit longer! 

 

Buster (Choose, is it Red ARSE or Green Willy)

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by Busterbloodvessel

[StaleMemes]

Today Sweden rolled up outside FR with 20 something strong lineships, 10k BR during off times for France, and there was pretty much nothing to be done except frantically tell the over eager less experienced players to not join in suicide. The extended entry made it worse, because most of the experienced players saw the writing on the wall and left, so when new people joined we joined straight into the fray, outnumbered 20-3. They just sat there slaughtering the people slowly trickling in to try and help the guys getting ganked. Even though I entered far from the center of the circle, I spawned completely sandwiched by Swedish oceans and Santisimas. By the time my guns were loaded and sails set I was already below 75% health and hemorrhaging crew

You could blame this on big clans not wanting actual fights, and instead preferring easy pvp marks and l33t global bragging rights, or on France for not having a 20 player strong first rate coast guard ready in off times, or you could  blame it on the fact that this is the easiest way to get pvp marks en masse, and the game mechanics let you just roll up outside the enemy capital and jump into some frigate captain's battle to slaughter everything that enters it. (I personally say the latter)

At the end of the day, its absolutely terrible for the game. I'm not going to say how exactly to fix this, but its just... blegh. I logged off today having enjoyed little of what transpired. If this is the development's vision for what the game should look like on launch, I doubt I will still be here by that time.

[Jean Ribault]

1 hour ago, Capt Aerobane said:

Today Sweden rolled up outside FR with 20 something strong lineships, 10k BR during off times for France, and there was pretty much nothing to be done except frantically tell the over eager less experienced players to not join in suicide. The extended entry made it worse, because most of the experienced players saw the writing on the wall and left, so when new people joined we joined straight into the fray, outnumbered 20-3. They just sat there slaughtering the people slowly trickling in to try and help the guys getting ganked. Even though I entered far from the center of the circle, I spawned completely sandwiched by Swedish oceans and Santisimas. By the time my guns were loaded and sails set I was already below 75% health and hemorrhaging crew

You could blame this on big clans not wanting actual fights, and instead preferring easy pvp marks and l33t global bragging rights, or on France for not having a 20 player strong first rate coast guard ready in off times, or you could  blame it on the fact that this is the easiest way to get pvp marks en masse, and the game mechanics let you just roll up outside the enemy capital and jump into some frigate captain's battle to slaughter everything that enters it. (I personally say the latter)

At the end of the day, its absolutely terrible for the game. I'm not going to say how exactly to fix this, but its just... blegh. I logged off today having enjoyed little of what transpired. If this is the development's vision for what the game should look like on launch, I doubt I will still be here by that time.

 

I didn't play the game today, but it's too bad to see.  Just another nail in the coffin for me though, I don't see much promise in the game.  Time for captain retirement, sigh.

[Macjimm]

6 hours ago, Capt Aerobane said:

 Even though I entered far from the center of the circle, I spawned completely sandwiched by Swedish oceans and Santisimas.

That's just silly.  Why does this happen?  You would think that players entering late to a battle would start a long ways from the ships inside.

[Archaos]

On 5/10/2018 at 2:38 PM, z4ys said:

Pls remove pve missions completely as we dont need that testing feature anymore

This may be true for the players who have been in game for a long time and are maximum rank with most ship slots unlocked, but for new players missions are a relatively quick way to level up safely (hence all the calls for reverting the 3 mission cancellation so missions can be done in the safe zone). Once you are max level missions do not give you much apart from gold and and a place to grind slots safely, but by this time most max rank players have realized it is better to do OW AI fleets in some quiet corner of the map.

The problem I see with calls for removal of missions is that they are from experienced max rank players who just want more targets out in OW for them to hit. They seem to forget that when they started playing missions in various guises were one of the main ways of levelling. I remember the shouts that used to go out for people to do first rate missions and some of the now very experienced PvP players that used to be in them almost daily. Now you would never really dream of shouting out that you were doing OW non-greenzone missions in nation chat as it would be an invitation to get ganked. People forget how much the game has changed since they started and how the new player experience now is much different from when they were new players. 

 

On 5/10/2018 at 3:39 PM, vazco said:

Battles open for all are right now the only source of fun encounters with many enemies which are available right away (in NA terms this means 1-2h from sailing out) . If you make it open just for one side, you will remove this. I expect many players will leave then. There's no alternative option to get such battles. 

Having your capital nearby is already an advantage that works. 

Although I am a proponent of capital safe zones, I do also agree that the change in RoE in these zones have brought out some interesting PvP battles. The issue though still remains regarding the ganking of newbies in these zones. With the current RoE hunters will seldom initiate the attack so they have to jump into someones AI battle. Most experienced players do not do AI missions in the green zone so it means they must be jumping inexperienced players, the problem is you cannot always be guaranteed to get assistance as people are not sure if it is a trap. For example the other night right outside Belize port a couple of Spanish players jumped into an AI battle which was 1 player against 2 AI, another British player seeing this happen jumped in to assist in his Buc, only problem was that there were 10 more Spaniards ready to join the battle making the battle 14v2 (12 players and 2 AI against 2 Players). Three of us who had been out hunting the Spanish around Placentia arrived but it was pointless joining as it would have meant throwing our ships away, we called out in nation but at the time of night there was just not enough players to be able to take on such a force, so the two in battle were left to their fate. I can guarantee the player who jumped in to assist in his brand new Buc will not do that again in a hurry.

Maybe if they want to keep such a feature they could apply it to other areas rather than green zones, but I think you would find that those zones would be deserted.

I would also like to point out that I am one of those so called "carebear" players who was always doing PvE in the safe zones when they were safe, but now that I have ground out most of my ship slots and completed the important skill books I have started to PvP more. So people do graduate from PvE to PvP.

[z4ys]

40 minutes ago, Archaos said:

This may be true for the players who have been in game for a long time and are maximum rank with most ship slots unlocked, but for new players missions are a relatively quick way to level up safely (hence all the calls for reverting the 3 mission cancellation so missions can be done in the safe zone). Once you are max level missions do not give you much apart from gold and and a place to grind slots safely, but by this time most max rank players have realized it is better to do OW AI fleets in some quiet corner of the map.

...

The quickest way to rank up is to do the tutorial and get M&C rank. M&C is fine to start pvping. The need to be max lvl is a deception developed by mmos like World of Warcraft and other games where high tier always beats low tier. NA isnt such a game personal skills vs enemy skill matters more than ship rate.

The need to get full Ship knowledge is an other deception. New players dont have books other the standard ones. Missions offer no books because of reduced loot (only ow ships not in the carezone have high chance for books) So actually new players that have no clue about the drop mechanic wasting their time by doing missions. Furtheremore I got told in many occasions that mods + books are overrated that their bonus is so small that they actually change nothing so why waste time here?

Missions are a fake feature that trick the player. The player thinks that he is doing something that will reward him but actually he is shooting oneself in the foot. He places oneself into a spiral of grind that lets him not enjoy the game.

So I welcome any advance that breaks this grind spiral and that let the players see clear. Missions are a thorn in the side that do more harm than good.

Edited May 14, 2018 by z4ys

[Slim McSauce]

Missions should mimic patrols zones and how they're done.

Hostilities: Go and sink AI fleets/players at the hostility zone, extra rewards topped on like patrols have.

Normal Mission: Go and sink a br500+ fleet on the OW, return to port for reward.

PB: Patrol the water around the time of a PB for x amount of time, you can tell you're inside because it's a big zone on the map like patrol missions, if you have the mission pulled you see it.

In the case of normal missions only 1 person would see it, hostilities the nation could all see and make their mission, same with PB. Putting missions around the map would be a good thing for the game.

[Hethwill]

Weekend, Post Maintenance period

Numbers rising quickly, traders rush to the first produce hours, and the predators are out.

First bounce, a brig model, just SE of Mortimer Town, not far from the coast. Wind is offshore so I get the cut intercepting towards the NW and deny the escape route. At the same time I spot a french frigate coming from the SW bound to NE. Brig makes haste to the Green Zone seeing all chances of a course to both Mortimer or Islet cut he decides to take advantage of the reinforcements.

Tag is on, privateer and endymion versus a unarmed trader brig, commanded by gallant Mr_Green ( sorry if i forget something out of your handle ).

Reinforcements are called for. A Privateer and a Renomee spawn. In paper a no big deal for the raiders, except the trader captain kept his cool and did everything possible to stay with the reinforcements and beyond, keeping the AI between the assailants and himself. Turning and weaving as the wind shifted he did not manage to survive such a uneven match.

In the end the Trade Brig sunk. The Privateer retreated to lick the wounds, being severely damaged from broadsides from the AI Renomee. More astonishing is that the Endymion did sink.

So, such a anecdotal example can, or not, be dismissed as being the exception, but in truth the player took full advantage of the zone. Called in reinforcements, gained time to have other players to join in ( didn't happen though ) and kept a cool head by sticking with the AI. Had he had any guns the entire result may have been different.

1. Call reinforcements. They are essential to keep enemy in as a rescue squadron is assembled. Use Nation chat.

2. Stick to the AI. You are going to be damaged anyway, and running downwind is a sure way to get separated from the help you just summoned and getting killed alone.

 

Snappy salute.

[Fletch]

30 minutes ago, z4ys said:

The quickest way to rank up is to do the tutorial and get M&C rank. M&C is fine to start pvping. The need to be max lvl is a deception developed by mmos like World of Warcraft and other games where high tier always beats low tier. NA isnt such a game personal skills vs enemy skill matters more than ship rate.

The need to get full Ship knowledge is an other deception. New players dont have books other the standard ones. Missions offer no books because of reduced loot (only ow ships not in the carezone have high chance for books) So actually new players that have no clue about the drop mechanic wasting their time by doing missions. Furtheremore I got told in many occasions that mods + books are overrated that their bonus is so small that they actually change nothing so why waste time here?

Missions are a fake feature that trick the player. The player thinks that he is doing something that will reward him but actually he is shooting oneself in the foot. He places oneself into a spiral of grind that lets him not enjoy the game.

So I welcome any advance that breaks this grind spiral and that let the players see clear. Missions are a thorn in the side that do more harm than good.

What about fleet missions? Fleet missions are good they encourage interaction with others and require a bit of thought and encourage team play. They are also fun for the new player. I just don't get why people want to try and remove stuff from the game when we should be adding more content and not taking away what little there is.

[Archaos]

3 minutes ago, z4ys said:

The quickest way to rank up is to do the tutorial and get M&C rank. M&C is fine to start pvping. The need to be max lvl is a deception developed by mmos like World of Warcraft and other games where high tier always beats low tier. NA isnt such a game personal skills vs enemy skill matters more than ship rate.

The need to get full Ship knowledge is an other deception. New players dont have books other the standard ones. Missions offer no books because of reduced loot (only ow ships not in the carezone have high chance for books) So actually new players that have no clue about the drop mechanic wasting their time by doing missions. Furtheremore I got told in many occasions that mods + books are overrated that their bonus is so small that they actually change nothing so why waste time here?

Missions are a fake feature that trick the player. The player thinks that he is doing something that will reward him but actually he is shooting oneself in the foot. He places oneself into a spiral of grind that lets him not enjoy the game.

So I welcome any advance that breaks this grind spiral and that lets the player see clear. Missions are a thorn in the side.

This may all be true, but it is being spoken by a person who has most probably been in the game a long while and is max rank with a lot of ships with slots unlocked and skill books.

As it currently stands a person starting the game today could be M&C in a couple of hours with a brand new rattlesnake and Hercules note which they open and first thing that hits them is a choice of woods. They have learned nothing about the different types of woods and what the differences are, but being keen to get into it they randomly choose the frame and planking woods. Now they have to get guns, again no info in tutorial about different types of guns and what situations they are best in, but hey they are still eager so they throw on some cheap mediums. They have repairs from the tutorial so okay they load them up and hit the OW, first thing they note is that this is not the same as the tutorial (see the thread regarding "where is my HUD") there has been no info given on how to tag someone and that battles are instanced. Anyway he eventually gets over that and sees a AI ship (lets just say he realizes that ships have different BR and knows what ships he should be going for) He start the attack and gets into battle, the battle is going along nicely when all of a sudden a couple of more ships appear and proceed to rip him to shreds. He has now lost his precious Hercules which he probably did not even realize was rare and you say such a person is ready for PvP???????

The need to get full ship knowledge may be a deception and good players may be able to win in any piece of junk they sail in without mods, but at the end of the day most of the experienced elite PvP players still pay top dollar for these mods and skill books from the "carebears" who farm AI for those mods and books (I had someone once pay me 100 PvP marks for a book). Players doing missions eventually realize that they do not get drops from these missions and eventually move on to hitting OW AI fleets. Forcing them to that position from the start does them no favors.

All games like this have some form of grind, the trick is making the grind interesting so people feel they are not grinding but moving up a ladder. Missions are boring and I personally have not done one in a long while, but they were an important step in getting to grip with the game for a lot of people, especially the fleet ones where you grouped up with others as it got you talking to other players and you were able to get advice. Can you tell me that you never did any missions while you were leveling up in the game? You may look back with hindsight and say there was no need to do missions, but they are still an important part of the learning.

[Pada]

30 minutes ago, Fletch67 said:

What about fleet missions? Fleet missions are good they encourage interaction with others and require a bit of thought and encourage team play. They are also fun for the new player. I just don't get why people want to try and remove stuff from the game when we should be adding more content and not taking away what little there is.

There are OW fleets that require a group. Nothing holds you back to get some people together and hunt that big fleet you always see sailing by.

[Hethwill]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

elite PvP players still pay top dollar for these mods and skill books from the "carebears" who farm AI for those mods and books (I had someone once pay me 100 PvP marks for a book)

Sorry for the OT, and sarcasm, but them animal farm elites said, in several other threads that the mods weren't necessary and they could play without them. So this... rampant pricing really bugs me...

Carry on, just thinking aloud. o7

[Teutonic]

16 hours ago, Capt Aerobane said:

Today Sweden rolled up outside FR with 20 something strong lineships, 10k BR during off times for France, and there was pretty much nothing to be done except frantically tell the over eager less experienced players to not join in suicide. The extended entry made it worse, because most of the experienced players saw the writing on the wall and left, so when new people joined we joined straight into the fray, outnumbered 20-3. They just sat there slaughtering the people slowly trickling in to try and help the guys getting ganked. Even though I entered far from the center of the circle, I spawned completely sandwiched by Swedish oceans and Santisimas. By the time my guns were loaded and sails set I was already below 75% health and hemorrhaging crew

You could blame this on big clans not wanting actual fights, and instead preferring easy pvp marks and l33t global bragging rights, or on France for not having a 20 player strong first rate coast guard ready in off times, or you could  blame it on the fact that this is the easiest way to get pvp marks en masse, and the game mechanics let you just roll up outside the enemy capital and jump into some frigate captain's battle to slaughter everything that enters it. (I personally say the latter)

At the end of the day, its absolutely terrible for the game. I'm not going to say how exactly to fix this, but its just... blegh. I logged off today having enjoyed little of what transpired. If this is the development's vision for what the game should look like on launch, I doubt I will still be here by that time.

and it's no different when a French fleet forms up outside the US Capital doing the same thing. I'm not blaming anyone, merely showing that every Nation does it to some degree.

I hate that to find "PvP" you go to the capital region or to a safezone, I hate that when you look at all the options of where to "best" find a player - it always resorts to everyone going to a safezone. I'd love PvP to be offlimits in a capital area/safezone but I also know that probably diminish pvp to having folks see the reality of how few folks pvp, or actively want to. It's just a hard sell to explain to a new possible recruit to the game when they are looking for a semi-casual/semi-hardcore game, when the odds aren't stacked in their favor (not that they should be, but it should be fun to play, not frustration).

I mean look at Mighty_Mo's stream, the guy is fairly new, if not extremely new to the game. He's grinded NPCs to get to the rank he is now and lately he always attempts to be in the safezone where he (rightly or wrongly) thinks he's safe. Constantly getting ganked, or attacked, or just PvP when he doesn't want it. Is this a bad thing? I don't know, but he certainly seems agitated to the point of giving up all the time. I'm willing to bet if he didn't get all the donations he's been given by folks killing him, he would have dropped the game after that first 13 hour stream that "made him infamous."

again, I won't blame it on any one person, I blame it on the game mechanics fostering this behavior because for an average player who PvPs, it's the only guarantee of finding someone to mess with, whether that means he sinks someone, or gets sunk. I know Solo/small gang guys like @Hethwill with ROVER clan are really good at finding targets away from the safe zones, they aren't the problem, they are just the minority....when we wish these types of players were the majority.

 

[Archaos]

4 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Sorry for the OT, and sarcasm, but them animal farm elites said, in several other threads that the mods weren't necessary and they could play without them. So this... rampant pricing really bugs me...

Carry on, just thinking aloud. o7

If people will pay it why shouldnt someone sell it for that price. Something is only worth what people will pay. I am just pointing out that if these mods and skillbooks are not necessary then why is there a roaring market for them and regular shouts in nation and global chat asking for them to buy or trade?

You go broadside to broadside against another first rate with no mods and you give the first broadside and see half your balls bounce off him and you hardly scratch his armor because he is running Armor thickness mods, yet when he fires off his broadside you watch as half your armor melts away because he is running penetration mods and then come tell me that mods and skill books dont count. (and before anyone points it out, I know angling you hull to his broadside can help deflecting shots, but for a trial just go broadside to broadside and tell me mods make no difference).

[Slim McSauce]

4 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Sorry for the OT, and sarcasm, but them animal farm elites said, in several other threads that the mods weren't necessary and they could play without them. So this... rampant pricing really bugs me...

Carry on, just thinking aloud. o7

The elites are blind, arbiter. They would be the first to riot if their precious mods and builds were made available to all. The elites also dictate the price, they're the ones with all the loads of good stuff, if you see them priced outrageously look no further.

[Hethwill]

Not disagreeing  Just stating a fact. Modules make or break. I always advocated that modules do make a gigantic difference btw.

But back on topic.

- Personally I think the reinforcements should stay as is, I made my peace with the zones, should mirror the enemy ships. Rate by rate, gun by gun, perk by perk, module by module. The models that can't be captured, can't, must be sunk.

 

[Archaos]

5 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

- Personally I think the reinforcements should stay as is, I made my peace with the zones, should mirror the enemy ships. Rate by rate, gun by gun, perk by perk, module by module. The models that can't be captured, can't, must be sunk.

If they make the change to RoE that they mentioned, that battle only stays open for nation whose green zone it is, then the need for owerpowered AI is reduced as own nation can also assist.

But just wait for the uproar when this change is introduced, from the people who like to gank new players in the green zone. 

[Slim McSauce]

3 minutes ago, Archaos said:

If they make the change to RoE that they mentioned, that battle only stays open for nation whose green zone it is, then the need for owerpowered AI is reduced as own nation can also assist.

But just wait for the uproar when this change is introduced, from the people who like to gank new players in the green zone. 

you can't put full blame on them, we only use like 12% of the map because devs have yet to figure out how to move their playerbase around. If everywhere from capital to 100k out was completely safe we'd all be lost because there is literally nothing else offered

Edited May 14, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Sento de Benimaclet]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 3:38 PM, z4ys said:

Pls remove pve missions completely

You keep asking for those things and when everyone has left then you will have PVE. If you want a broad base of players to exist so that there is good PvP, I say that you will have to look for the general interest, but no, we only look at the personal interest, until it is too late and there will be no one left to fight with. You will only have machines. We do not even spend 500 players a day. And that they closed the global server. So either we change the chip, or we end up burying the game. 

And do not come to me with the Caribean Server is only PvP, because it is not true. In the Caribean Server ALSO there is PvP, and RvR and PvE and trading. Here you interact with people who do different activities. I do PvP, but if I want the game to subsist with more and more people then it will have to give and receive. Without that balance the game will die and we will lose ALL. Saludos.

[Fletch]

6 hours ago, Pada said:

There are OW fleets that require a group. Nothing holds you back to get some people together and hunt that big fleet you always see sailing by.

That's fine but does it justify removing other content? Why have PVP patrol missions when you can simply kill people on the open world? Removing stuff and forcing people into ever more narrow minded game play is a huge mistake. There is no wrong or right way to play the game witch is why its important to have as much choice and as much things to do as possible. Instead of constantly removing the little content we have how about adding some more?

Edited May 14, 2018 by Fletch67

[jodgi]

2 hours ago, Teutonic said:

...I hate that to find "PvP" you go to the capital region or to a safezone...

Do you now? I look at the patrol missions in their current form as a lesser evil than reinforcement zone "hunting". 

[z4ys]

8 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Do you now? I look at the patrol missions in their current form as a lesser evil than reinforcement zone "hunting". 

complainng about carezones is ranting about not to be able to gank

complaining about patrol is ranting about being ganked

Edited May 14, 2018 by z4ys

[Aster]

10 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

The elites are blind, arbiter. They would be the first to riot if their precious mods and builds were made available to all. The elites also dictate the price, they're the ones with all the loads of good stuff, if you see them priced outrageously look no further.

Down with the bourgeoisie! The proletariat masses will over throw the oppressors! Seize the means of production!  

Edited May 15, 2018 by Aster

[Dalai Lama]

I don't know if it has been mentioned yet but the current reinforcements can be abused in a silly way. We were attacking a single brit player near jamaica in reinforcement area while other nation players joined our battle on our side and left after sailing away leaving us with all their newly spawned reinforments... we were forced to abord and bailed as we faced 6 ai defenders instead of 2.