Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum

Recommended Posts

Captains. 

Lets talk about balancing of repairs. Multiple players request limitation of their numbers. Some think that they make battles much longer. 
Our goal with repairs is the following

  • Provide the money sink
  • Give the option to the captain to recover from mistakes (for example the ability to repair masts only in port would be ok in a single player game but wont be ok in a multiplayer game - because no-one would like to stand still for 1.5 hours losing masts at the beginning of the battle)

As a result of this goals repairs must stay in game and captain should decide himself how many repairs he carries and how many times he can repair in battle.

 

What we would like to hear is your ideas on repairs that could improve combat depth (increasing importance of first proper shot and focus fire). For example - we are considering.

  1. Add speed debuff when you repair sails/masts. Ships cannot repair sails/masts at speed.
  2. Add speed/water intake dependence: structural and penetrating leaks will take a lot more water if sailing fast and will take much less water if you are stationary. 
  • Like 18

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crew management should affect the speed and reload of a ship while a ship is repairing cause you have most of your crew doing that instead of manning the sails or guns,, so I would say it could if you don't have enough crew also effect your reload along with slowing you down.

As for a way to slow down the ship, maybe make it that repairs can only be done while you are in Battle Sales and only than.  This way no more full sales going max speed doing sale repairs or even hull/rigging repairs.  If you want to repair your ships your going to need to slow down a bit.   

Now this can also be offset with the mention next patch giving combat perks while in this sail profile too.  One of them is being able to repair your hull or sails if needed.

Edited by Sir Texas Sir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, admin said:

Captains. 

Lets talk about balancing of repairs. Multiple players request limitation of their numbers. Some think that they make battles much longer. 
Our goal with repairs is the following

  • Provide the money sink
  • Give the option to the captain to recover from mistakes (for example the ability to repair masts only in port would be ok in a single player game but wont be ok in a multiplayer game - because no-one would like to stand still for 1.5 hours losing masts at the beginning of the battle)

As a result of this goals repairs must stay in game and captain should decide himself how many repairs he carries and how many times he can repair in battle.

 

What we would like to hear is your ideas on repairs that could improve combat depth (increasing importance of first proper shot and focus fire). 

  1. Add speed debuff to sail/mast repairs. Ships cannot repair sails/masts at speed.
  2. Add speed/water intake dependence: structural and penetrating leaks will take a lot more water if sailing fast and will take much less water if you are stationary. 

both perfectly fine and good for me.

 

What I would like to see after some thinking aswell is diminishing repajrs. 

1. repair basic 25%

2nd repair 15%

3rd repair and more only 10%

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

id like to see holes from cannonballs be a constant dynamic to the battle on top of these suggestions. each hole has the potential to become a leak. and each leak obviously speeds up the sinking process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i am fine with current system but if it has to change:

 

rig repairs submenu:

  • repair masts
  • repair sails

hull repairs submenu:

  • left side
  • right side
  • bow & stern
  • all

 

hull repairs should give your crew a penalty of 20% splinter resistance at the very least.

and rig repairs a penalty on main sail force of 30% and jib sail force of 5% or the other way around depending sail damage split.

mast repairs should suffer both penalties.

Edited by RKY
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, rediii said:

 

What I would like to see after some thinking aswell is diminishing repajrs. 

1. repair basic 25%

2nd repair 15%

3rd repair and more only 10%

not going to be done in the foreseeable future. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think making repairs less effective the more often you use them is a good start.

 

Edit: Oh well, admin beat me to it.

Edited by Batman
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, RKY said:

i am fine with current system but if it has to change:

rig repairs submenu:

  • repair masts
  • repair sails

hull repairs submenu:

  • left side
  • right side
  • bow & stern
  • all

 

Mast repair separation is not going to be done in this game, due to way how ship model is set up. 
Hull repairs we see no benefits in separating repair into individual parts due to unnecessary clutter in UI. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My biggest Point is: You have limited Ammo of chain balls... ok, historically accurate and nothing wrong. But you can repair sails forever... so a player gets his sails chained down, repairs and the others have no chance to slow him down again. If you stick to limited chain ammo, there must be a limitation of rig repairs. Maybe like "with every repair, the max. sail integrity gets diminished a little, like you can repair to 100% at the first repair, then max. to 95% with the second repair, max. up to 90% with the third rig repair and so on.

There should be a chioce what to repair... either sails or masts with rig repair, and either one of both sides with hull repairs.

35 minutes ago, admin said:

Add speed debuff when you repair sails/masts. Ships cannot repair sails/masts at speed.

Totally agree, seems logic to me.

37 minutes ago, admin said:

Add speed/water intake dependence: structural and penetrating leaks will take a lot more water if sailing fast and will take much less water if you are stationary. 

So if one is hit hard and just wants to run, he has the chioce of getting completely shot down, but dealing with leakage... or running away, but sinking because of one or two leaks? This is like "the player who shoots the first leak, will be the winner, eighter this way or the other".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, admin said:

dd speed debuff when you repair sails/masts. Ships cannot repair sails/masts at speed.

Should not be able to repair sails/masts in combat.  With the limit on chain, this would make a very good dynamic in the game.  Those that use chain effectively, would gain an advantage.  If both players use chain effectively, the tactic would have to change based on lower speeds...for example, wearing instead of tacking.

 

52 minutes ago, admin said:

Add speed/water intake dependence: structural and penetrating leaks will take a lot more water if sailing fast and will take much less water if you are stationary.  

Very good idea and quite realistic.  

 

Structural repair should also be very limited.  Historically, large areas of hull damage were not able to be repaired during combat.  "Cleared for action" does not allow crew to focus on carpentry.  Full repair after the battle (10 minutes of game time?) would be reasonable.  I realize this would make battles more decisive, but surely that is a good thing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, RedPanther said:

So if one is hit hard and just wants to run, he has the chioce of getting completely shot down, but dealing with leakage... or running away, but sinking because of one or two leaks? This is like "the player who shoots the first leak, will be the winner, eighter this way or the other".

I think even PUBG forces you to be stationary when healing. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, admin said:

I think even PUBG forces you to be stationary when healing. 

in PUBG you can hide behind rocks / walls / in buildings while healing

in Naval action there is nowhere to hide

Being way slower when repairing helps ganks - or "tactical use of numbers" as you like to call it. in a 3v1, just chain him to 70%, so you can either catch up easily that way, or force him to repair sails and get slower that way.

I dont like the idea of being slower when repairing.

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The main problem with repairs is they don't reflect the same kind of issues faced when at sea, repairs shouldn't tick up the same kind of armour/structure that the ship would have had having sailed out of port, they are hastily put together wedges and planks to jury rig damage, not service the ship replacing key timbers. Repairs should be based around survivability rather than anything else, perhaps add a new health meter to represent this that overlaps the current ones to show repaired integrity perhaps by having a red health meter and a blue health meter where blue could represent core integrity where as red shows patchwork, meaning the lower condition of the ship is still much more susceptible to cannon fire and grape but the repairs help it maintain some of the ability to float/sail despite damage.

Edited by Fluffy Fishy
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Liq said:

in PUBG you can hide behind rocks / walls / in buildings while healing

in Naval action there is nowhere to hide

Being way slower when repairing helps ganks - or "tactical use of numbers" as you like to call it. in a 3v1, just chain him to 70%, so you can either catch up easily that way, or force him to repair sails and get slower that way.

I dont like the idea of being slower when repairing.

then crewsplinter damage increased drstically, what about that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the moment, I do not see major complications with the system we have in place. Been in ganking side, been ganked, been in equal fights. It serves all scenarios of equal numbers, battle points and on "tactical use of numbers" scenarios. In truth the latter will always have an advantage and there's no way around it given shock force against little resistance, but that's the way it is.

Some battles been fast and decisive, others even against the odds been prolonged and very tactical and well fought through out.

The only thing I can think of is to make the Repair option focus equal to survival - no balance of crew station numbers, once it is needed it will always assign the maximum crew.

So if I select Repair Sails and the focus tells it needs 125 crew then 125 will be forcefully allocated even if the captain doesn't turn focus off on the other areas.

Priority is Repairs.

 

Speed debuff is a odd one, not sure I can see it correctly but the more correct way would be, not a speed debuff per se but debuffing yard turning. After all the crews and passing lines and canvas up, abstraction of thre rig being worked means we can't handle it so easily.

A bit off topic but i think repairs should be same mass as the ship components. So if a ship rigging parts and sails for crafting mass is 100 tons, then a full cycle of repairs for rig/sails should be 100 tons for the model.

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Firstly, those saying that a captain can do unlimited sail repairs are incorrect. Most captains will be limiting how many repairs they carry against how much they are willing to reduce their max speed due to tonnage in the hold. Therefore repairs are not unlimited is the reality when you go out to pvp.

Secondly, I'm personally against being made to slow down for repairs. On the surface this would appear to mean that it is unlikely you will effect an escape when chased as the chasing pvp outfitted ships will overhaul you too easily. Or is this thought line on making captains slow down just effectively another money sink because of the increased ship losses???

The system as it stands now with limited chain is working well in pvp; sometimes i can escape chasers and sometimes i dont. When chasing, sometimes I catch people and sometimes i dont. A system of slowing down a ship when repairing where effectively the ship will always get caught and sunk seems wrong and unbalanced in favour of the pursuers to me.

Edited by PaladinFX
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The speedboat sailors are never going to be for anything that slows you down.  Their game revolves around being able to outspeed everyone and they set up their ships for that.  It's just not realistic though.  Sailing warships were not designed to repair back to 100% during a battle.  Other than survival level repairs done by a small specialized subset of the crew (Bosuns party/topmen), the rest of the crew must fight and sail the ship.  If you are seriously outnumbered, you SHOULD be destroyed.  If you sail into an enemy's capitol, you SHOULD be hunted till you're destroyed.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dislike the fact that one ship can face down many while being able to sail faster than this his opponent EVEN while in the midst of being heavily shot at and in the middle of repairing.  MULTIPLE times.  Just feels unrealistic.  

I personally liked the old method of 1 repair/rig and that was it.  You tactically had to conserve your sides and when to save your repair was highly important.  Especially now that chain is limited it feel like this would be even more dynamic.  

Historically a demast was a knock out punch.  Back in the older system it was.  There was virtually no way one could refit an entire mast while sustaining heavy fire. Now it’s common place.

I mean yesterday I was in a 2v1 against 2 brits in their waters.  One larger ship than my trinc and one smaller frigate.  I got a demast off on the larger ship, which should of be a critical knockout and then moved in to board. NOPE, determined defender.  This guy was demasted with no sail rep avail, down about 70 crew and still sailing up next to him I wasn’t able to board because of a magic perk.  Astonishing really.  So I just sat next to him, sunk him broadside to broadside. Sailed off while repairing at an angle the other couldn’t catch.  Turned back and then sunk him too.

I should of been able to board him and I SHOULD NOT have been able to slip away as heavily damaged as I was from the 2nd guy and then flip around and kill him after my magic repair mods gave me an nearly like new ship 12 mins later.  But I was.  And those 2 things are frankly what drives me nuts about this game.  Disbelief is suspended in some areas but not in others.   

Edited by Christendom
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Christendom, I agree with everything you say.  I suppose there has to be some gameplay mods to reality for the fun of the game but we go too far  in the repair portion.  You will probably disagree with me on this, but I believe it is far too easy to demast.  Yes it should be a knockout, but it shouldn't happen to full masts as often as it does now.  Topmasts maybe...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Christendom said:

 

I personally liked the old method of 1 repair/rig and that was it.  You tactically had to conserve your sides and when to save your repair was highly important.  Especially now that chain is limited it feel like this would be even more dynamic.  

 

This can be easily achieved without any change in code still giving the player flexibility to repair multiple times, but making this choice a hard choice.

For example repair weights could be increased to the point that if you want to repair 30% of the hull - the weight of this repair should a significant % of the repaired hull weight.

Sails are lighter and captain always carried a lot of extra sails and mast parts on voyages, but for hull repairs i think the weight is too low. 

Currently repairs to fully repair 10000 hp (100 repairs) only weight 100 tons
Which is definitely an oversight.
Repairs to fully repair hull and structure for 10000 hp (a 3000+ displacement ship) should not weight 100 tons; 1000 tons would be a more appropriate number.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Christendom said:

 

I should of been able to board him and I SHOULD NOT have been able to slip away as heavily damaged as I was from the 2nd guy and then flip around and kill him after my magic repair mods gave me an nearly like new ship 12 mins later.  But I was.  And those 2 things are frankly what drives me nuts about this game.  Disbelief is suspended in some areas but not in others.   

Also - did not this system let you actually win and use the mechanics to your advantage?
Structure already gives debuff, if you were able to slip away was it because of your skillful positioning, or them not damaging you to a proper level (to slow you down).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, PaladinFX said:

Firstly, those saying that a captain can do unlimited sail repairs are incorrect. Most captains will be limiting how many repairs they carry against how much they are willing to reduce their max speed due to tonnage in the hold. Therefore repairs are not unlimited is the reality when you go out to pvp.

Sure, but that's individual tactic. Another tactic may be to just have enough Rig Repais to repair 9 times in one battle... whatever the chasers so, they will run out of chains and cant do much more than telling goodbye. Captain's choice.

You may counter this with chain ammo als ship loading... expensive, heavy weighting goods, but helpful in battle. So every player can decide on his own how many chains to equip, like with rig repairs.

Now, the player can decide how many rig repairs he wants, regarding its advantages and disadvantages... but he can not decide, how many chains he wants. That is my only point.

@admin: Suggestion: Have chain balls loaded as equipment weighting his own weight like repairs, so players can decide on their own what to do. And also, increase weight of all repair kits.

 

14 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Historically a demast was a knock out punch.  Back in the older system it was.  There was virtually no way one could refit an entire mast while sustaining heavy fire. Now it’s common place.

Totally agree. Same with raking... back in Trafalgar's times, a well-placed raking could effektively pre-decide the battle by not killing, but at least hurting a huge part of the receiving ship's crew. Just imagine two or three crowded gun decks, virtually no protection and 40 heavy iron bullets just flying through, destroying everything in their way.

(Kind greetings from the guy who rammed his Endy in your Trinco yesterday^^ when will you come for another visit at Belize? :ph34r:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, admin said:

This can be easily achieved without any change in code still giving the player flexibility to repair multiple times, but making this choice a hard choice.

For example repair weights could be increased to the point that if you want to repair 30% of the hull - the weight of this repair should a significant % of the repaired hull weight.

Sails are lighter and captain always carried a lot of extra sails and mast parts on voyages, but for hull repairs i think the weight is too low. 

Currently repairs to fully repair 10000 hp (100 repairs) only weight 100 tons
Which is definitely an oversight.
Repairs to fully repair hull and structure for 10000 hp (a 3000+ displacement ship) should not weight 100 tons; 1000 tons would be a more appropriate number.

I would be fine with a change like this.  

Maybe a couple options.   Light repair that consumes less but does not affect speed. Heavy repair that consumes more but slows you down 50% or something.  One has a quicker cool down than the other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Christendom said:

 

I got a demast off on the larger ship, which should of be a critical knockout and then moved in to board. NOPE, determined defender.  This guy was demasted with no sail rep avail, down about 70 crew and still sailing up next to him I wasn’t able to board because of a magic perk.  Astonishing really. 

70 crew should be board-able if you are in a trincomalee - you are not telling everything :)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@admin stop please, try one thing at a time.

money sink is losing ship not the use of reps, but to lose ship you need to sink. more weight for hull reps or less speed while repairing is a boring and ugly feature for a player.

starts limiting reps to 2 for each type...with limited chain, limited reps is a good starts to test.  don't change anything else for now...

 

many battles finished with player escaped due to 3rd or 4th rig reps...just limit them to 2 and see what happens.  no leaks buff, no speed debuff ecc ecc...2 reps only

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×