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Killpoints. Fixed or variable?  

20 members have voted

  1. 1. Are killspoints right now fine?

    • Yes
      12
    • No
      8
  2. 2. Would variable points be better than fixed?

    • Yes
      10
    • No
      10


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Hey, 

right now every kill gives the killing team a fixed amount of points while lowering the killed teams points by the same value. A issue here is that this buffs 1st rates and nerfs smaller ships because they are more likely to sink and therefore the team with less small ships can generate more points.

 

I think we need to make it dependent on BR of port aswell as BR of ship sunk. Examples:

 

Port BR 2500

580 BR sunk = 23,3% of Port BR

Points for enemy team = 232

365 BR sunk = 14,6%

Points = 146

Prince/Mortar = 32 Points

 

Port BR 5000

580 BR = 116 Points

365 BR = 47 Points

80 BR = 16 Points

 

10.000 BR PB

580 BR = 58 Points

365 BR = 24 Points

80 BR = 8 Points

 

Ofcourse the formula could be tweaked a bit so you dont get that many points (maybe /2) but you get the point I want to make here.

Edited by rediii
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we found that it is better to not touch things that work ok as it will require additional time (and sometimes a lot) for fine tune
Benefits of switching to this new method are not clearly described 

 
 

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1 minute ago, admin said:

we found that it is better to not touch things that work ok as it will require additional time (and sometimes a lot) for fine tune. 
also - no tags))) please add tags

there are tags. :P

Depends on what the target is. Right now portbattles (except 2500) build up around a base of 1st rates and then some supportships are added (3rds, mortars, upwind frigs)

If the target is a base of 3rd rates supported by 1st rates and smaller supportships the suggestion above would help a bit. (even though numbertweaks are needed. Ocean is the most effective ships compared to 2nd and 3rds HP/BR, Repair/BR) 

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I might be mistaken but isn't the real reason behind fleets are build around 1st rates that they are superior in armor and firepower. Why would that change if frigs would give less points?

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Just now, z4ys said:

I might be mistaken but isn't the real reason behind fleets are build around 1st rates that they are superior in armor and firepower. Why would that change if frigs would give less points?

Current pointsystem makes small setups better than big setup ... I guess thats pretty obvious?

But yes 1st rates are superior also due to HP and repair I wrote that aswell.aswell. I think tweaks are needed here.

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I just try to find an answer to the question: what was first egg or chicken.

What will have more impact.

First rate balance or points tweak or both.

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3 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I just try to find an answer to the question: what was first egg or chicken.

What will have more impact.

First rate balance or points tweak or both.

1st rate balance would have the bigger impact on portbattlesetups. To make it "perfect" though you need variable points. Also because small PBs are very dependent on circles right now while big portbattles are not. Maybe thats good though? Not sure.

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20 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I just try to find an answer to the question: what was first egg or chicken.

What will have more impact.

First rate balance or points tweak or both.

A thing for 1st rate balance is maybe because the traditional way of tank/dps is not working in NA. Right now 3rds are high on alphadamage/BR but thats not worth much because the 3rd has to get very close to the 1st and will take a lot of damage while blocking shots of friendly 3rd rates.

A fix might be to lower 1st rate thickness more and make them HP tanks this way and not blocktanks(thickness) because 24 pounders already have a hard time penning.

Edit: And lowering thickness gives space so you can shoot 1 ship with multiple ships of you

Edited by rediii
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1 hour ago, admin said:

also - no tags))) please add tags

#SKGUM - tag

#PRKZ - too
Who know, what does it mean.

So, give us tag map.

Edited by Nemockalb

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29 minutes ago, Nemockalb said:

#SKGUM - tag

#PRKZ - too
Who know, what does it mean.

So, give us tag map.

This is what they mean:

a2550413303eab04112bce94ba904727.png

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1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

I really think there is more urgent things to fix in RvR...

ofcourse there is but I would like to write threads about everything that could need a fix. Devs will make the priorization anyway and if they rework rvr then why not fix this aswell as a byproduct

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4 minutes ago, rediii said:

ofcourse there is but I would like to write threads about everything that could need a fix. Devs will make the priorization anyway and if they rework rvr then why not fix this aswell as a byproduct

Honestly, I dont see devs fixing RvR anytime soon. So personally I wouldnt bother about this until they end with their priorities. They have clearly said multiple times by now.

Until then we will have this boring RvR for a long time so just be patient.

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10 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Honestly, I dont see devs fixing RvR anytime soon. So personally I wouldnt bother about this until they end with their priorities. They have clearly said multiple times by now.

Until then we will have this boring RvR for a long time so just be patient.

Will my post autodelete after 2 months?

I don't think that admin doesnt write things out of the forum into that mysterious priority list

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The issue is more that first-rates are allowing into all the deep water PB's.  It would be better to only allow 1st rates in to the large PB's, then 2nd rates have more use in the game.

The same with 4th rates.  Make 4th rates the largest ships for the 2500 BR PB's.

  • 10,000+ PB's - any ship
  • 7000+ BR 2nd rates and down
  • 5000+ BR 3rd rates and down
  • 2500+ BR 4th rates and down
Edited by ElricTheTwo
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The same thought should hold for the hostility as well.  Base the ships eligible to run up hostility on the BR of the port.  With only shallow ships eligible for shallow port hostility.

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I support the idea as to make First Rates usable for the largest BR battles only and thus increase the importance of anything lesser in size.

So portbattles gain in variety and it isn't always the same set up.

Edited by Cetric de Cornusiac

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7 minutes ago, ElricTheTwo said:

The issue is more that first-rates are allowing into all the deep water PB's.  It would be better to only allow 1st rates in to the large PB's, then 2nd rates have more use in the game.

The same with 4th rates.  Make 4th rates the largest ships for the 2500 BR PB's.

  • 10,000+ PB's - any ship
  • 7000+ BR 2nd rates and down
  • 5000+ BR 3rd rates and down
  • 2500+ BR 4th rates and down

result would be that we are stuck with the old restrictions again. Target should be to make 3rds the most effective ships and making 1st rates supportships for the 3rds

 

4 minutes ago, ElricTheTwo said:

The same thought should hold for the hostility as well.  Base the ships eligible to run up hostility on the BR of the port.  With only shallow ships eligible for shallow port hostility.

This is bad because then everyone would just wait for the ships to get on OW and then gank them outside of hostilitymissions

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20 minutes ago, ElricTheTwo said:

The issue is more that first-rates are allowing into all the deep water PB's.  It would be better to only allow 1st rates in to the large PB's, then 2nd rates have more use in the game.

The same with 4th rates.  Make 4th rates the largest ships for the 2500 BR PB's.

  • 10,000+ PB's - any ship
  • 7000+ BR 2nd rates and down
  • 5000+ BR 3rd rates and down
  • 2500+ BR 4th rates and down

No.

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I’m still astonished that if you sink a MB in the port battle it gives the same points as if you sunk a vic

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From my point of view the OP makes perfect sense.. It's only logic that sinking a mortar brig would yield less points, than sinking a 1. rate for example.  

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If we want to have more importance to smaller ships then there a lot more issues that need to be solved then just the BR/point system. At the moment there is not a lot of use for smaller ships like 6/5/4th rates in a port battle. if the opposing side brings 1st rates it will be over on points pretty quickly. I would like to add some points but as admin said they arent going to overhaul the system so it will only be dreams

  • Limt the amount of 1st rates in a port battle. in other FPS games you have these roles and squadrons. We could have something like this in NA. Commander sails a 1st rate. Squadron commander sails in a second rate. Others in designated ships from 3rd down to 6th rates. 
  • Limit the amount of repairs and ammo you can take into a port battle. This would then give frigates and brigs a meaning as support vessels but then they would also need to add in the game the transfer of goods from 1 ship to another.
  • Limit the number of mortars in a PB to lets say 1 or 2. Allthough important they are a bit unrealistic in the amount of ammo they shoot. Reload time is ridiculously fast. (I am not doing myself a fovour because i lve the mortar)
  • Someone a few weeks ago suggested also landing vessels for capturing towers. This would add also a new role for a ship or a captain.

I am just saying these things because too many port battles are now just turning into a brawl without too much tactics. Just throw enough good first rates in there, focus fire enough and thats about it. getting more smallers ships into port battles not only makes them more realistic but it would also invite more people to do RvR. if i would have known that not a lot of people want to sail a mortar it would have been the first ship i would have gotten in when i could crew it.

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11 minutes ago, Jake Newport said:

If we want to have more importance to smaller ships then there a lot more issues that need to be solved then just the BR/point system. At the moment there is not a lot of use for smaller ships like 6/5/4th rates in a port battle. if the opposing side brings 1st rates it will be over on points pretty quickly. I would like to add some points but as admin said they arent going to overhaul the system so it will only be dreams

  • Limt the amount of 1st rates in a port battle. in other FPS games you have these roles and squadrons. We could have something like this in NA. Commander sails a 1st rate. Squadron commander sails in a second rate. Others in designated ships from 3rd down to 6th rates. 
  • Limit the amount of repairs and ammo you can take into a port battle. This would then give frigates and brigs a meaning as support vessels but then they would also need to add in the game the transfer of goods from 1 ship to another.
  • Limit the number of mortars in a PB to lets say 1 or 2. Allthough important they are a bit unrealistic in the amount of ammo they shoot. Reload time is ridiculously fast. (I am not doing myself a fovour because i lve the mortar)
  • Someone a few weeks ago suggested also landing vessels for capturing towers. This would add also a new role for a ship or a captain.

I am just saying these things because too many port battles are now just turning into a brawl without too much tactics. Just throw enough good first rates in there, focus fire enough and thats about it. getting more smallers ships into port battles not only makes them more realistic but it would also invite more people to do RvR. if i would have known that not a lot of people want to sail a mortar it would have been the first ship i would have gotten in when i could crew it.

No limits.

Why do we use more first rates than second rates in most battles?

Look at the Buc and the Ocean. One Ocean can easily take down 2-3 bucs. The Buc have only a bit more speed and turnrate while it has 3k hp less and a hull really easy to pen. And both share they are terrible sailors. Pavel is also in quite bad shape.

Instead the Bellona have more use due to sailing capabilities.

 

To sum up, we need some tweaks to reach a better balance.

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2 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

No limits.

Why do we use more first rates than second rates in most battles?

Look at the Buc and the Ocean. One Ocean can easily take down 2-3 bucs. The Buc have only a bit more speed and turnrate while it has 3k hp less and a hull really easy to pen. And both share they are terrible sailors. Pavel is also in quite bad shape.

Instead the Bellona have more use due to sailing capabilities.

 

To sum up, we need some tweaks to reach a better balance.

1 ocean has no chance vs 2-3 bucs while sailing alone. But once oceans group up you cant do anything against them. Why? Survivability. Bellonas and 2nds just melt away against oceans.

Space is also a issue. with a bigger fleet of bellonas you run out of space to manouver and get guns on target. That is easier with 1sts.

I think I compared 1sts and bellonas yesterday. 

8000/580= 13,7

8000/365 = 21,9

Would 13 oceans have a problem with 21 Bellonas? I doubt it

Edited by rediii

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Just now, rediii said:

1 ocean has no chance vs 2-3 bucs while sailing alone. But once oceans group up you cant do anything against them. Why? Survivability. Bellonas and 2nds just melt away against oceans.

Im talking about PBs. And usually you dont see oceans alone in PBs.

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