mod J & P Rebalance Mod by JonnyH13 and Pandakraut 05/06/2023 1.28.4

[pandakraut]

1 hour ago, gracchus said:

I'm back in familiar territory.  I'm playing a Union campaign on MG, 1.26 mod) and Shiloh has proven to be my undoing.  I've built up with good results with heavy emphasis on experience and a second campaign with heavy logistics/economy focus.  I've also blended the approaches.  I've got 4 2 star INF (1100-1500) with 2 BG spread in my 3 divisions, 5 artillery (4 are 1*), and 2 1* Cav (1 shock, 1 carbine).    I've watched the 1.24 video by Pandakraut about the legendary campaign (AO is very different now and changes that ability to set up camp) and I'm stuck. 

Also, what is the rhyme and reason around how your units deploy at Shiloh?  3 divisions, not where I expect them, I'm sure I'm just missing something.  I'm not looking for "the secret," I know it's about how you play more than anything else, just hoping for suggestions.

The deployments at Shiloh are weird. What I do to get them sorted out is start the battle, write down which units spawn, then go back into camp and see what slots those units are in. Then I move unit around so that those slots are filled with the units I want. Doing this up through the second phase takes a bit more work, but you can increase the fastForward setting in the configFile to speed up the process.

The 1.25 videos for Shiloh will be a bit more helpful. 1.24 is basically let artillery kill everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55T6amKxoJk&list=PLNFTAFys32_8_OFQir6FNqGoo0y13UZMm&index=11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RO1pcRGkrg&list=PLNFTAFys32_8_OFQir6FNqGoo0y13UZMm&index=12

 

[gracchus]

58 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

The deployments at Shiloh are weird. What I do to get them sorted out is start the battle, write down which units spawn, then go back into camp and see what slots those units are in. Then I move unit around so that those slots are filled with the units I want. Doing this up through the second phase takes a bit more work, but you can increase the fastForward setting in the configFile to speed up the process.

The 1.25 videos for Shiloh will be a bit more helpful. 1.24 is basically let artillery kill everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55T6amKxoJk&list=PLNFTAFys32_8_OFQir6FNqGoo0y13UZMm&index=11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RO1pcRGkrg&list=PLNFTAFys32_8_OFQir6FNqGoo0y13UZMm&index=12

 

As always, thank you for both the tips and the quick response.  If you're not a game developer in your paid work, you should consider it.

[lroye3]

Do I need to download your other rebalanced modes prior to downloading this one?

[Grimthaur]

3 hours ago, gracchus said:

I'm back in familiar territory.  I'm playing a Union campaign on MG, 1.26 mod) and Shiloh has proven to be my undoing.  I've built up with good results with heavy emphasis on experience and a second campaign with heavy logistics/economy focus.  I've also blended the approaches.  I've got 4 2 star INF (1100-1500) with 2 BG spread in my 3 divisions, 5 artillery (4 are 1*), and 2 1* Cav (1 shock, 1 carbine).    I've watched the 1.24 video by Pandakraut about the legendary campaign (AO is very different now and changes that ability to set up camp) and I'm stuck. 

Also, what is the rhyme and reason around how your units deploy at Shiloh?  3 divisions, not where I expect them, I'm sure I'm just missing something.  I'm not looking for "the secret," I know it's about how you play more than anything else, just hoping for suggestions.

I wrote down, wich unit spawns where so i could distribute my forces the right way (unfortunatly on a piece of paper) but you can also watch playthroughs and write it down, dont have to speed through yourself. Edit: P1:  I/I/1-6; I/II/1,2,4; II/I/ 1-4 (including midphase reinforcements); P2: I/II/3,5,6; I/III/1,5,6; II/I/5,6; II/II/1-3; P3 right side: I/III 2-4, lower left side: II/II 4-6, II/III 3-4, upper left side: II/III 1-2.

For me, focussing my eltite units on P1 and deploying no guns in P2 was the key to success. Nearly wiping out the AI on P1 while not capturing church so you have enough time to reposition your forces before p2 starts and creating an arch from the east with your green units on P2 allows the simple hammer&anvil strategy once the map opens up. I prefer to hold as long as possible on P2 to deal more DMG and to recieve reinforcements in that phase already. Its still a very hard battle but if you manage to create a semicircle from the woods east to the church over hornets nest up to the elevated woods next to the coast you should be able to hold there. Imho artillery needs the movability perk to be efficient here, especially if you want to rely on Napoleons and 24pds. I would rather go for longrange to have effective antibattery because at least for me the biggest menace is ***artillery with 20 or more longranged guns.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Grimthaur
additional info

[pandakraut]

4 minutes ago, Grimthaur said:

I wrote down, wich unit spawns where so i could distribute my forces the right way (unfortunatly on a piece of paper) but you can also watch playthroughs and write it down, dont have to speed through yourself.

For me, focussing my eltite units on P1 and deploying no guns in P2 was the key to success. Nearly wiping out the AI on P1 while not capturing church so you have enough time to reposition your forces before p2 starts and creating an arch from the east with your green units on P2 allows the simple hammer&anvil strategy once the map opens up. I prefer to hold as long as possible on P2 to deal more DMG and to recieve reinforcements in that phase already. Its still a very hard battle but if you manage to create a semicircle from the woods east to the church over hornets nest up to the elevated woods next to the coast you should be able to hold there. Imho artillery needs the movability perk to be efficient here, especially if you want to rely on Napoleons and 24pds. I would rather go for longrange to have effective antibattery because at least for me the biggest menace is ***artillery with 20 or more longranged guns.

The battle definitely changes a lot if the AI ends up with rifled guns. They usually have at least one or two units worth on legendary and they wreck havoc on your smoothbore artillery.

[gracchus]

4 minutes ago, Grimthaur said:

I wrote down, wich unit spawns where so i could distribute my forces the right way (unfortunatly on a piece of paper) but you can also watch playthroughs and write it down, dont have to speed through yourself.

For me, focussing my eltite units on P1 and deploying no guns in P2 was the key to success. Nearly wiping out the AI on P1 while not capturing church so you have enough time to reposition your forces before p2 starts and creating an arch from the east with your green units on P2 allows the simple hammer&anvil strategy once the map opens up. I prefer to hold as long as possible on P2 to deal more DMG and to recieve reinforcements in that phase already. Its still a very hard battle but if you manage to create a semicircle from the woods east to the church over hornets nest up to the elevated woods next to the coast you should be able to hold there. Imho artillery needs the movability perk to be efficient here, especially if you want to rely on Napoleons and 24pds. I would rather go for longrange to have effective antibattery because at least for me the biggest menace is ***artillery with 20 or more longranged guns.

Much appreciated.  I just get rolled during the mass charge on Part 1.  I've tried to balance my deployment but end up with unexpected distributions that kill me in part 2.  That is, if I've survived part 1 intact.

I'm indebted for the advice and will take it to heat. 

The "hammer and anvil" strategy reminds me of Phil Caputo's A Rumor of War about his experiences in Vietnam.  He makes a number of references to it as the standard Marine procedure.

[Grimthaur]

2 minutes ago, gracchus said:

Much appreciated.  I just get rolled during the mass charge on Part 1.  I've tried to balance my deployment but end up with unexpected distributions that kill me in part 2.  That is, if I've survived part 1 intact.

I'm indebted for the advice and will take it to heat. 

The "hammer and anvil" strategy reminds me of Phil Caputo's A Rumor of War about his experiences in Vietnam.  He makes a number of references to it as the standard Marine procedure.

The Hammer and Anvil was first used by the greeks as far as i know. It depends on very mobile units in contrast to defending entrenched positions.in UGCW it is a bit like dancing on a razors edge, you have to constantly adjust your positioning anticipating the ais movements.If you let your guard done once your whole line will collapse

[gracchus]

1 hour ago, Grimthaur said:

The Hammer and Anvil was first used by the greeks as far as i know. It depends on very mobile units in contrast to defending entrenched positions.in UGCW it is a bit like dancing on a razors edge, you have to constantly adjust your positioning anticipating the ais movements.If you let your guard done once your whole line will collapse

Love a good history lesson!

Thanks for the reply and tips.  I can't even count the number of times positioning has killed me in this game.  Yet, I still love it and the mods just keep extending my enjoyment.

[Jorlaan]

Hammer and Anvil was a tactic that is attributed to Phillip of Macedon, Alexanders father. Very old indeed.

[Adonnus]

I can't win the battle of Antietam. I just installed this mod. It fixed my non shooting glitch which is good but basically I can't win the battle. My troops are all doing really well but even though there are units with a 3 to 1 casualty ratio there are just too many Union troops to beat them.

I grind them down to almost nothing but they kick my ass with thousands of extra troops that come in at the end. After hours of playing to that point I just gave up as I have no reserves left except 2 infantry units. Basically my troops succeeded at everything, they held the line perfectly for the whole battle. But I just run out of men and my units get exterminated one by one.

The mod means I was selling artillery pieces for $800, now it's more like $30. So I can't relaunch the battle with more troops. Idk how to win now.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/788630089367345865/A164756E14620CE4AD64FFE1CEDD8920FCE59874/

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/788630089367344708/5F3BD346BB4BAAA28B6E7B146F5ED76503758A1A/

[pandakraut]

3 hours ago, Adonnus said:

I can't win the battle of Antietam. I just installed this mod. It fixed my non shooting glitch which is good but basically I can't win the battle. My troops are all doing really well but even though there are units with a 3 to 1 casualty ratio there are just too many Union troops to beat them.

I grind them down to almost nothing but they kick my ass with thousands of extra troops that come in at the end. After hours of playing to that point I just gave up as I have no reserves left except 2 infantry units. Basically my troops succeeded at everything, they held the line perfectly for the whole battle. But I just run out of men and my units get exterminated one by one.

The mod means I was selling artillery pieces for $800, now it's more like $30. So I can't relaunch the battle with more troops. Idk how to win now.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/788630089367345865/A164756E14620CE4AD64FFE1CEDD8920FCE59874/

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/788630089367344708/5F3BD346BB4BAAA28B6E7B146F5ED76503758A1A/

Did you start a new campaign when you installed the mod? It changes so many things that switching to it mid campaign leads to odd results.

Example of winning Antietam in the mod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1kVCnjDIxg

 

Example of winning it in the base game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy8J6qs9HZw&list=PLNFTAFys32_-N-fIfWJgRSJIhVtOZjEGe&index=24

 

[Gabreil68]

Can someone give me a link to version 1.25.2?
In version 1.26 it changes everything - AI is now more likely to charge the chain instead of sending one unit at a time. This increased the difficulty for the higher ones.
Now even easy battles are legendary, they can't be won.
The opponent has a 3: 1 advantage and charges massively.
You show movies as solutions, but from earlier versions.

Now chargé is a key. Sorry for my English.

[pandakraut]

2 hours ago, Gabreil68 said:

Can someone give me a link to version 1.25.2?
In version 1.26 it changes everything - AI is now more likely to charge the chain instead of sending one unit at a time. This increased the difficulty for the higher ones.
Now even easy battles are legendary, they can't be won.
The opponent has a 3: 1 advantage and charges massively.
You show movies as solutions, but from earlier versions.

Now chargé is a key. Sorry for my English.

While I don't think anyone has managed to finish a legendary campaign yet, the early part of the campaign is definitely possible to win. They are quite difficult however as a lot of the old tricks don't work anymore. Unfortunately, there are no videos of the early part of either campaign in 1.26 that I'm aware of currently.

There are two new configuration settings in the Mod/Rebalance/AIConfigFile.csv that you may be interested in. Recommend just editing in notepad as some users have reported problems if they use excel or an equivalent.

AdvancedChargeLogic, changing this to false turns off the increased chance of AI units to charge when a nearby AI unit is charging.

AIscalingSizeMultiplier, this directly affects the size of all AI units in a given battle. Increase if a battle is too easy(or if you want giant AI units on lower difficulties), decrease if a battle is too hard. You will have to restart the game anytime you make a change to these values.

If you'd like to continue playing the previous version, links are available here: 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x4nr38qstplx7ml/RebalanceModGoGV1.25.2.zip?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j9ywpx26rqdliab/RebalanceModV1.25.2.zip?dl=0

[The melancholic T-Rex]

Hi guys,

Does anyone know if there is a way to change the size of the units ?, I do not mean the limit of men per brigade, but how they look in the game, that is, the relationship between the number of men and the npc that appear . Although I don't know if it's convenient in this game, I'd appreciate it.

[pandakraut]

28 minutes ago, They melancólico T rex said:

Hi guys,

Does anyone know if there is a way to change the size of the units ?, I do not mean the limit of men per brigade, but how they look in the game, that is, the relationship between the number of men and the npc that appear . Although I don't know if it's convenient in this game, I'd appreciate it.

It is possible, but it requires some programming ability. The game has a curve which relates unit hp to number of sprites that are displayed. This would result in the units taking up more space on the maps which doesn't play very well.

[The melancholic T-Rex]

Hola chicos,

15 hours ago, pandakraut said:

Es posible, pero requiere cierta capacidad de programación. El juego tiene una curva que relaciona la unidad de HP con el número de sprites que se muestran. Esto daría como resultado que las unidades ocupen más espacio en los mapas, lo que no juega muy bien.

I imagined it would be something like that, thanks 🤗🤗🤗

[adishee]

On 2/16/2020 at 12:28 AM, pandakraut said:

It is possible, but it requires some programming ability. The game has a curve which relates unit hp to number of sprites that are displayed. This would result in the units taking up more space on the maps which doesn't play very well.

I've long been trying to figure out how to make the sprites smaller, so that more sprites could be fit on the screen but within the same space. No luck after several experiments. I'd like to make them about 40% smaller, and increase the sprite — hp curve.

Edited February 17, 2020 by adishee

[pandakraut]

FYI, a bug was found in some of the scaling code that is making certain battles such as Newport, Distress Call, and Cross Keys harder than they should be. This will probably get patched sometime this week.

[DogMeatJenkins]

9 hours ago, pandakraut said:

FYI, a bug was found in some of the scaling code that is making certain battles such as Newport, Distress Call, and Cross Keys harder than they should be. This will probably get patched sometime this week.

Uh, does this explain why the first battle of the Union is basically impossible past BG? Or why I'm fighting 45,500-46k confederates at Salem Church, and I'm only given 15,800 Union troops? This is on Brigadier General, because I couldn't pass MG opening battle, I was outnumbered 3-1. I was thinking maybe this mod was just insanely tough, I downloaded it for the first time last week but yeah, the battles with AI troops instead of my own seem to be the worst. 

[The Shadow Knows]

Thanks Panda i was wondering what was up been playing this game for sometime had just started in Major Gen mode and Newport was near  impossible to do they run over me me like a dog in Heat lol and the Union cal went straight for my cannons and  destroyed them and it was game over from there and i tried several tactics but to no avail . 

[pandakraut]

4 hours ago, DogMeatJenkins said:

Uh, does this explain why the first battle of the Union is basically impossible past BG? Or why I'm fighting 45,500-46k confederates at Salem Church, and I'm only given 15,800 Union troops? This is on Brigadier General, because I couldn't pass MG opening battle, I was outnumbered 3-1. I was thinking maybe this mod was just insanely tough, I downloaded it for the first time last week but yeah, the battles with AI troops instead of my own seem to be the worst. 

Scaling shouldn't be affecting either of the first battles beyond the increases from difficulty. I'll double check Phillipi and maybe just make it a bit easier. I can beat it on legendary but it's considerably more frustrating than Potomac Fort.

I'll check all of the allied unit only battles again. They aren't supposed to be scaling against the players units, but I think that part of the base game logic is not working correctly.

The mod is intended to be considerably harder than the base game. The starting union battle has been beaten by multiple people on legendary but it should probably be toned down a bit more to be less annoying.

[pandakraut]

3 hours ago, The Shadow Knows said:

Thanks Panda i was wondering what was up been playing this game for sometime had just started in Major Gen mode and Newport was near  impossible to do they run over me me like a dog in Heat lol and the Union cal went straight for my cannons and  destroyed them and it was game over from there and i tried several tactics but to no avail . 

It's definitely possible, it's been completed on Legendary. There are certain army setups that will punish the player far more than they should be though. On average you should be facing 2-4k fewer AI units than you currently are.

Still, the new AI charging logic is going to require an update to most people play. It can be beaten, it's just not as easy as it was before.

[dixiePig]

On 2/11/2020 at 9:10 PM, pandakraut said:

You can absolutely do this, I regularly play with 1k units through Shiloh.

#meToo  However - as noted - multiple smaller units can be bought only by an 'unbalanced' investment in AO.  And the AO itself is unbalanced in that it grows # of divisions and # of corps out of proportion to its ability to grow # of Brigades.  Common sense says that an army with fewer senior officers and guns would naturally have more smaller units within a division - rather than form more divisions or more corps.

On 2/11/2020 at 9:21 PM, pandakraut said:

f the player wants to field a lot of units, they should have to invest in AO and in officers. To do this they must sacrifice something else.

'zackly.  I get the message: ugcw has hard-coded limitations on its ability to handle this situation.  Too bad. Playability suffers.

On 2/11/2020 at 9:10 PM, pandakraut said:

As an aside. Another modder has been working on a submod which focuses on Regimental style play. Smaller max infantry sizes, so it might be something you are interested in.

Which makes sense.  Sort of. When designing my own paper-based napoleonic-era wargames (based on substantial historical research) back in the 60'e & 70's - It was clear that most battles at the time were fought with command at the regimental level.  Communications - or rather a lack thereof - means that most fighting decisions were made there.

Primary Drawback:  Detail Overload (too many pieces to manage in the game). 

Avalon Hill's Gettysburg (1958) was the first of the popular dice & board games of that era - and it was based - clumsily - on Divisional units.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettysburg_(game) 

A large-engagement army of Brigade-sized units just makes for more manageable gameplay.

Edited February 19, 2020 by dixiePig
clarity

[JonnyH13]

Updated to 1.26.1

[sirwaldi]

12 hours ago, JonnyH13 said:

Updated to 1.26.1

Hi Jonny

 

what are the diferences between 1.26 and 1.26.1

 

i dont know for me if i need to update my actual campagne

THX

Edited February 20, 2020 by sirwaldi