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J & P Rebalance Mod by JonnyH13 and Pandakraut 7/11/2019 1.25.1 Hotfix

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6 minutes ago, lunario said:

oh well.

Reload again and achieved victory.

Seem that you need to hurry on previous objectives so scene change trigger before time run out.

Need to make the last scene timer run out before night and then capture the landing triggers the victory.

Took half of my army to achieve this.

This battle is really hard, your reinforcement just can't do the thing's like your army. I suppose it's because of the short range of their weapon.

 

Not sure which battle you're talking about? Is this Shiloh? Which side?

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Hey Panda, quick question that's probably been asked but I can't find it:

Will you be doing a CSA run through with this mod after your Union run? I really enjoy watching your videos and gain a lot of useful information and ideas from them. The only CSA run you've got up right now is the other mod and it's wildly different, some battles I can adapt tactics, some I cannot. Would love to see your way of dealing with this mod CSA.

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2 minutes ago, Jorlaan said:

Hey Panda, quick question that's probably been asked but I can't find it:

Will you be doing a CSA run through with this mod after your Union run? I really enjoy watching your videos and gain a lot of useful information and ideas from them. The only CSA run you've got up right now is the other mod and it's wildly different, some battles I can adapt tactics, some I cannot. Would love to see your way of dealing with this mod CSA.

Perhaps eventually. I haven't had time to even get back to my Union videos recently though.

If you haven't seen it already, check out Fiasco_Games content. He was attempting a legendary run, ran into a dead end and is currently progressing through a MG run. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8mo0bLvCR-45MPnvQtVaJw 

 

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51 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

Not sure which battle you're talking about? Is this Shiloh? Which side?

Shiloh CSA, tested today.

Letting timer went out at around 21:40 with landing secured won't give me victory(see my second last post with image).

Have to finish previous scene like hornet nest earlier than the timer. So that at the landing when timer went out it's not night time(that's my assumption).

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I had noticed you had not updated in a while. Life happens

I'll check out the other one though. Good to have others to watch.

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On 10/28/2019 at 10:03 AM, pandakraut said:

Skirmishers are definitely an issue currently. Some planned changed for them include ...

Glad to see that this set of issues is being recognized.  Let's re-visit some essential issues:

  • The dedicated Army units which ugcw labels as "Skirmishers" are largely a historical fiction. There were no (as in zero) independent units in the IRL Civil War which were labeled as Skirmishers.  Google "civil war skirmishers" ... It's obvious
  • Historically, skirmishers were what the legacy ugcw features as "detached skirmishers".  Again : Google "civil war skirmishers".  They were meant to screen, reconnoiter, harass and delay.  https://civilwartalk.com/threads/the-art-of-skirmishing.136888/
  • Historically, there were also a very, very few small, exotic "Sharpshooter" and Ranger-type units who were great shots with great rifles.  But these units were rare and never had any real impact on any battle.

Clearly the dedicated ugcw Battle units labeled as "Skirmishers" have gotten out of hand in the Rebalance and need to be scaled back.  A lot.  They are so unrealistically out-of-balance that players are now using them as souped-up Assault Teams.

Here are a few suggestions:

  1. Re- label the dedicated, elite ugcw "Skirmishers" Battle units something more historically realistic, like "Sharpshooters"
  2. Re-activate IRL detached Skirmishers as a feature of any infantry unit. Refer to them as such.  There will be no further naming confusion as a result. Detached skirmishers can perform auxiliary screening and harassment roles, but cannot be successfully misused as Sharpshooter units currently are in the rebalance.
  3. Sharpshooter units are expensive, rare, and perform a limited role - which is far less effective than the over-powered current rebalance version.  In practical terms, they might be reduced to vanity "prize" units which are awarded at the end of a big battle (like Forrest's Cavalry)  or purchased under the Government button. They shouldn't be the focus of artificial army-building.

 

Edited by dixiePig

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J&P have voiced their concerns with sharpshooters' op-ness. I personally had the idea that sharpshooters get a perk which increases their likelihood of killing an enemy officer; and Panda has also kicked around the idea of making enemy officer kills visible to the player via a message, if their recon level is high enough. I think this would be more in line with their historical roles. I think an increase in morale damage, rather than physical damage, would also seem appropriate.

Edited by adishee

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Hey, so when I last played UGCW with this mod, I read here that there was an issue with artillery battery size, where anything over 12 guns or so started having a reduced total damage output.  I've skimmed the posts here but don't see any new info.  Is this still how the game+mod works?  Or will larger batteries yield larger damage output now?

nevermind.  Found the post updated Sept 4 still saying it's around 14 for max artillery damage.  Feel free to delete/not approve this post.

Edited by gomurr
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21 minutes ago, gomurr said:

Hey, so when I last played UGCW with this mod, I read here that there was an issue with artillery battery size, where anything over 12 guns or so started having a reduced total damage output.  I've skimmed the posts here but don't see any new info.  Is this still how the game+mod works?  Or will larger batteries yield larger damage output now?

nevermind.  Found the post updated Sept 4 still saying it's around 14 for max artillery damage.  Feel free to delete/not approve this post.

14 is still accurate if you're playing the unmodded game. If you're using either the Rebalance Mod or the UI & AI Customizations mod the size curves have been replaced so that adding more men/guns always results in a damage increase. Diminishing returns do apply though.

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Great mod and very challenging.

Currently on CSA legendary run and can't get through the "Brandy Station" minor battle.

Anyone have some nice tactics to win this one?

20191113005414_1.thumb.jpg.03cc6b77fe8fd4d08444a7069ffb5b96.jpg

I only have two infantries, though they have good weapon and nice stats they're grealy out numbered, mine 1.2k each and AI have two infantry of 6k man.

AI come from both north and south, northern part is more easy to defend because of the river, and the AI artillery will be moving slowly through woods.

Southern part is more or less undefendable. AI has one 1k skirmish, two 0.7k artillery, three 1.1-1.4k dragoon, one 6k infantry and one 1.1k shock cavalry on the southern part.

I have 6 artillery(6 pdrs) and 6 dragoons(good but not enough).

Tried several times without success.

Seriously need some advice.

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So I got a quick question about the exp modifiers. I know that the two for officers were originally 1.0, and you set one lower and one higher. I am assuming lower than 1 makes exp growth slower and above 1.0 is faster?

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2 hours ago, Jorlaan said:

So I got a quick question about the exp modifiers. I know that the two for officers were originally 1.0, and you set one lower and one higher. I am assuming lower than 1 makes exp growth slower and above 1.0 is faster?

Yes, the values are just straight multipliers. Brigade officer xp was decreased. Corps and Division officer xp was increased.

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6 hours ago, lunario said:

I only have two infantries, though they have good weapon and nice stats they're grealy out numbered, mine 1.2k each and AI have two infantry of 6k man.

AI come from both north and south, northern part is more easy to defend because of the river, and the AI artillery will be moving slowly through woods.

Southern part is more or less undefendable. AI has one 1k skirmish, two 0.7k artillery, three 1.1-1.4k dragoon, one 6k infantry and one 1.1k shock cavalry on the southern part.

I have 6 artillery(6 pdrs) and 6 dragoons(good but not enough).

Tried several times without success.

Seriously need some advice.

From when I last played it, the only real way to deal with the infantry is to focus them with as many units as possible, especially the artillery to drive them off quickly. If both rush you at the same time you're probably dead. Your infantry are very good, but you want to avoid them taking damage as much as possible as that's where a lot of your firepower comes from. I tend to leave them in the two fortifications for the extra range, reload speed, and protection.

You can usually rush your cav forward to get some free shots on the enemy artillery as it moves up right at the beginning which can help a bit. This can also do odd things to the AI deployment in the south which can buy you some time if it goes well.

It does sound like your army setup is driving up scaling a bit. In my old saves I was only facing ~26k and the skirmishers were a more manageable 500-600. It's still an extremely tough battle on legendary though.

One thing that can help is restarting until you get a favorable split. If several of your units end up splitting, especially the infantry that can help a lot. Though if those AI infantry units split its probably a restart.

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16 hours ago, pandakraut said:

From when I last played it, the only real way to deal with the infantry is to focus them with as many units as possible, especially the artillery to drive them off quickly. If both rush you at the same time you're probably dead. Your infantry are very good, but you want to avoid them taking damage as much as possible as that's where a lot of your firepower comes from. I tend to leave them in the two fortifications for the extra range, reload speed, and protection.

You can usually rush your cav forward to get some free shots on the enemy artillery as it moves up right at the beginning which can help a bit. This can also do odd things to the AI deployment in the south which can buy you some time if it goes well.

It does sound like your army setup is driving up scaling a bit. In my old saves I was only facing ~26k and the skirmishers were a more manageable 500-600. It's still an extremely tough battle on legendary though.

One thing that can help is restarting until you get a favorable split. If several of your units end up splitting, especially the infantry that can help a lot. Though if those AI infantry units split its probably a restart.

Thanks Panda for your reply. I did what you suggest and won.

Restarted several time, got one split of infantry and AI got many split cavs but no infantry split.

I hold out till the timer runs out. I believe the key of winning this is luck and maybe bug of AI. I got good opportunities to wipe out all the skirmishes of the AI and after that my cavs have no challenge to kill all their southern guns. AI seems bugged as the southern 6k infantry never came to shoot at me, only harassment of their dragoons.

I find the AI quite poor of using dragoons, their dragoons are doing fire and run all the time. Also the "Position" of the AI cavs occasionally drift from their image on the screen, quite annoying. 

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54 minutes ago, lunario said:

I hold out till the timer runs out. I believe the key of winning this is luck and maybe bug of AI. I got good opportunities to wipe out all the skirmishes of the AI and after that my cavs have no challenge to kill all their southern guns. AI seems bugged as the southern 6k infantry never came to shoot at me, only harassment of their dragoons.

I find the AI quite poor of using dragoons, their dragoons are doing fire and run all the time. Also the "Position" of the AI cavs occasionally drift from their image on the screen, quite annoying. 

Very good luck on that infantry unit, I've seen them mostly get stuck doing nothing a few times which certainly helps. Good work on getting through it.

AI cav usage is definitely an issue. Haven't figured out anything that I can do to improve it unfortunately.

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The only thing that kind of ruins the immersion for me is the lack of promotions for brigadier commanders. I love that divisional and corps commanders get more XP now but I'm already at Antietam and have yet to see a single colonel leading a brigade get promoted to a 1 star general. Is this intended? 

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Have enjoyed many of your modifications, questioned some others (s.a.sharpshooters-labeled-as-'skirmishers'). Access to the config files is helpful.  But am also experiencing some limitations, which may be 'hard-coded' into the base game, but I'd like to customize  them, if possible.

Is there any way to adjust the "spoils of war" (percentages of recovered weapons after a battle)?  I'd like to fight a more challenging enemy, but don't believe that "spoils of war" should change radically.

  • Also - there are special cases:  If I capture an enemy unit outright, then imo ALL of their weapons should be "spoils of war".

What are the dynamics underlying how ugcw handles the Easy/Moderate/Hard/Legendary game levels?  Can any of those values be adjusted by fiddling with the config tables?  If so - then which attributes?

Is it possible to selectively adjust compensation levels?  For example:  After certain battles, you are sometimes awarded a "free'" senior officer, sometimes with troops (like Forrest/CSA).  Is it possible for me to customize that in any way - or is it all baked into the game engine?

1 hour ago, Butch said:

The only thing that kind of ruins the immersion for me is the lack of promotions for brigadier commanders. I love that divisional and corps commanders get more XP now but I'm already at Antietam and have yet to see a single colonel leading a brigade get promoted to a 1 star general. Is this intended? 

yep.  Any solutions on that front yet? 

  • I especially like your solution for the automatic replacement of officers lost in combat
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6 hours ago, Butch said:

The only thing that kind of ruins the immersion for me is the lack of promotions for brigadier commanders. I love that divisional and corps commanders get more XP now but I'm already at Antietam and have yet to see a single colonel leading a brigade get promoted to a 1 star general. Is this intended? 

The system was designed around players optimizing xp gain for their officers and has some issues when players are not utilizing those methods. Officer xp gain is based on unit stat gain during a battle. Stat gain naturally slows down the closer to 100 the stat gets. This means that the fastest way to level an officer is to place them in command of a new unit with low stats an then put that unit in position to gain as many stats as possible. Using this method along with other small optimizations it is reliably possible to raise an officer to MG by Shiloh and LTG around 2nd Bull Run. With some good luck you can even manage to have a LTG by Shiloh.

There are some changes planned to make this a bit more accessible, but both Jonny and I have had very little time to work on the mod recently.

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4 hours ago, dixiePig said:

Is there any way to adjust the "spoils of war" (percentages of recovered weapons after a battle)?  I'd like to fight a more challenging enemy, but don't believe that "spoils of war" should change radically.

  • Also - there are special cases:  If I capture an enemy unit outright, then imo ALL of their weapons should be "spoils of war".

What are the dynamics underlying how ugcw handles the Easy/Moderate/Hard/Legendary game levels?  Can any of those values be adjusted by fiddling with the config tables?  If so - then which attributes?

Is it possible to selectively adjust compensation levels?  For example:  After certain battles, you are sometimes awarded a "free'" senior officer, sometimes with troops (like Forrest/CSA).  Is it possible for me to customize that in any way - or is it all baked into the game engine?

Weapon recovery rates are not currently configurable. The values are definitely in the assets file somewhere but that would involve a decent amount of hex searching to find. The rates do change by difficulty. One of the features I'm testing for the UI mod is a config option to adjust AI unit sizes. This would allow players to play on lower difficulties while generically increasing AI unit sizes to whatever they feel is appropriate. This would likely get included in a future release of this mod as well.

None of the difficulty modifiers are currently configurable. These values are also in the assets somewhere.

Battle rewards can be changed in the assets. Theoretically additional officers or units could be gifted but it's unknown if it would end up breaking something as we haven't actually tried it yet.

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6 hours ago, pandakraut said:

The system was designed around players optimizing xp gain for their officers and has some issues when players are not utilizing those methods. Officer xp gain is based on unit stat gain during a battle. Stat gain naturally slows down the closer to 100 the stat gets. This means that the fastest way to level an officer is to place them in command of a new unit with low stats an then put that unit in position to gain as many stats as possible. Using this method along with other small optimizations it is reliably possible to raise an officer to MG by Shiloh and LTG around 2nd Bull Run. With some good luck you can even manage to have a LTG by Shiloh.

There are some changes planned to make this a bit more accessible, but both Jonny and I have had very little time to work on the mod recently.

Fantastic insight. Thank you! 

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1 hour ago, Asweettooth1 said:

Coulld you be Much ore specific to how to install for us less than tech savy ? thank you. 

1) In Steam, right click UGCW and select Properties. 

2) Click local files, then select browse local files

3) right click 'Ultimate General Civil War' and select 'show package contents'

4) Select the Ultimate General Civil War_data folder and copy the downloaded zip file here.

5) Extract the downloaded zip into the Ultimate General Civil War_data folder. You should be prompted to overwrite  Ultimate General Civil War_data/Managed/assembly-csharp.dll and Ultimate General Civil War_data/resources.assets.

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15 hours ago, pandakraut said:

The system was designed around players optimizing xp gain for their officers and has some issues when players are not utilizing those methods. Officer xp gain is based on unit stat gain during a battle. Stat gain naturally slows down the closer to 100 the stat gets. This means that the fastest way to level an officer is to place them in command of a new unit with low stats an then put that unit in position to gain as many stats as possible. Using this method along with other small optimizations it is reliably possible to raise an officer to MG by Shiloh and LTG around 2nd Bull Run. With some good luck you can even manage to have a LTG by Shiloh.

There are some changes planned to make this a bit more accessible, but both Jonny and I have had very little time to work on the mod recently.

I'm going to post this comment again because - with all due respect - the answer provided is not really justified.

I have seen very rapid advancement for junior officers ... up to the rank of Colonel. However ...

There appears to be some sort of threshold that is unique to the rank of BG.  The rate of advancement flattens noticeably once an officer reaches the rank of Colonel.  They just can't get to the next level. Even after many, many, many battles.

Several of us have commented on/complained about this.  We aren't mistaken.  We aren't stupid. We are providing you with good information which is based on field-tested experience.

Clearly, the xp gain dynamics you describe just aren't working the way they're supposed to.  Even if they did, there's little value in such contrived methods:  They're historically inaccurate. They're awkward.  They're counter-intuitive.  Most of all:  They really just don't work. (To imply that we just aren't playing the game utilizing correct "methods" is not a wise response. "Gaming the system" is not a solution.)  I can only observe that I do not remember there being such a barrier-to-advancement-to-the-rank-of-BG in the legacy/base game. Something happened.

Possible stopgap solution:

  • If I remember correctly, the legacy/base game offers up purchasable officers under "Government" who are often already at the default rank of Brigadier General. Make them BG rank again and we may have a temporary solution to this problem.  And it is a problem. 

You have our support as you attempt to fix something which is now a problem.  We appreciate what you and Jonny have already accomplished without - I assume - much help from the originators.

Edited by dixiePig

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4 hours ago, dixiePig said:

We appreciate what you and Jonny have already accomplished without - I assume - much help from the originators.

Darth has been willing to take the time to answer several of our questions in the past. We try not to bother him unless it's a question on what the original intent was with a system that has an issue.

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