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J & P Rebalance Mod by JonnyH13 and Pandakraut 7/11/2019 1.25.1 Hotfix

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@dixiePig Antietam is definitely all about position, snipers, keeping a concave and splitting the attacks into phases.  On legendary with the mod I was around 7k casualties as CSA.  I should probably make a guide on it since I’ve played it very successfully as union and csa.  Now up to wilderness campaign as csa and the union seems to be preferring Spencer’s.  Got 7k in battle rewards from chickmauga.

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On 10/7/2019 at 11:29 AM, pandakraut said:

brigadeOfficerExperienceMultiplier: As I have mentioned multiple times. Officer xp growth has been slowed down in the mod because it is far to fast in the base game. There are multiple mechanics available to gain xp very quickly but you appear to be actively ignoring them given the rate of promotion in your campaigns.

We agree that xp growth in the base game is outrageously fast.  However, adjusting it to outrageously slow is hardly a solution.

One reason I play games which claim to be historically based is in order to enjoy some historical conditions and behaviors.  I'm also well aware that it's always possible to 'game' most any game by exploiting features of the automated rules.

From what I see in the descriptions offered by other players here: winning techniques for your mod often have little correlation with historical conditions or events.  No blame:  It's just an observation.  And a fairly accurate one.

My choice to - as you say - "actively ignore" the artificial conditions that you have engineered into your very entertaining mod is probably less deliberate than you imagine.  I play pretty much the same way as I did the base game, with the results that I've shared with you here.  My hope was that you'd accept the information gracefully.  You appear to be more invested in informing me that I'm somehow playing the game wrong.  I'll take a pass on that, thanks.

 

On 10/7/2019 at 11:29 AM, pandakraut said:

attackFactorFlanks: These numbers tie into the overall damage from weapons, perks etc. A full volley from a well setup unit will often rout anything less than a 2* brigade in a single round so I would recommend being careful with how much you increase this.

The short response to that would be "not really".  I've experienced more than a few enemy units which survive multiple volleys from flanking units.

 

On 10/7/2019 at 11:29 AM, pandakraut said:

Regarding artillery units: Keep in mind that movement speed perks heavily factor in here. If you want artillery to be faster than infantry take the horse artillery perk. Artillery is also extremely powerful in game and it's slow speed is one of the necessary downsides.

By the Civil War, all artillery was horse-drawn.  Even if not "horse artillery" (where every artillerist was mounted), an artillery unit still moved at least as fast as - if not faster than - a marching infantry unit.

 Good luck in fixing your mod.

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8 hours ago, dixiePig said:

Good luck in fixing your mod.

I think we fundamentally disagree on where the weight of where historical accuracy and game play balance should be valued. Hopefully the configuration files provide enough flexibility for you to change the mod more to your liking.

If I haven't mentioned it before, I would recommend taking a look at the UnitModifiersOriginalValues file. It contains the base game settings for all unit modifiers including the five unit stat gain values. Setting those to the base game values plus changing corpsOfficerExperienceMultiplier and brigadeOfficerExperienceMultiplier to 1 would restore the base game rate of stat gain. Some set of values between those used in the base game and the mod should get what you're looking for. Colonels will still take a while to level up though as the xp necessary to gain a rank is only configurable through hex editing.

There isn't a way to get around officers no longer gaining xp when unit stat gain slows/stops. This is a limitation inherent to how xp gain was designed in the base game. Adding some kind of small minimum gain regardless of stat change would be possible for brigade officers and might be included in a future patch.

The types of cannon that the medium and heavy speed multipliers apply to are not configurable, but if you set both of those values to 1 you'll effectively disable those changes.

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On 10/13/2019 at 10:00 AM, pandakraut said:

five unit stat gain values

If I haven't mentioned it before, I would recommend taking a look at the UnitModifiersOriginalValues file.

"unit stat gain values" = what are these?

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8 minutes ago, dixiePig said:

If I haven't mentioned it before, I would recommend taking a look at the UnitModifiersOriginalValues file.

"unit stat gain values" = what are these?

killsPerEffectivity: number of kills required to gain a point of efficiency
killsPerMelee: number of kills required to gain a point of melee
movePerStamina: distance moved to gain a point of stamina
shootPerFirearms: reloads completed to gain a point of firearms
timePerMorale: time spent in battle per morale gained.

There are diminishing returns that apply the higher a stat is, so you will see different rates depending on if the unit has low or high stats.

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On 10/13/2019 at 10:00 AM, pandakraut said:

The types of cannon that the medium and heavy speed multipliers apply to are not configurable, but if you set both of those values to 1 you'll effectively disable those changes.

which values are these?/in which files?

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11 minutes ago, dixiePig said:

which values are these?/in which files?

Those are in the Ultimate General Civil War\Ultimate General Civil War_Data\Mod\Rebalance\ConfigFile.csv

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Do the UnitModifiersOriginalValues and UnitModifiers files interact in the mod - or does one simply replace the other?

If only one is valid - which one is it?

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8 minutes ago, dixiePig said:

Do the UnitModifiersOriginalValues and UnitModifiers files interact in the mod - or does one simply replace the other?

If only one is valid - which one is it?

Only UnitModifiers is used by the mod. UnitModifiersOriginalValues is only included as a reference to the user.

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On 10/17/2019 at 3:50 PM, pandakraut said:

killsPerEffectivity: number of kills required to gain a point of efficiency

Thanks for providing context for these critical values, pandakraut

It may seem like busywork, but I have added these definitions to my version of the table.  The critical framing info = "unit stat gain values"

Some other values are seemingly self-evident, but context (i.e. how they effect the game engine) is really helpful

I'm sure that you have plenty on your plate, but a 'glossary'  for the terms in the table (not just definition but also context) would be tremendously helpful.  Value -added: Aficionados fine-tuning the values in their own versions of the game gives you a testing base which might actually provide some insights and solutions for thornier issues. 

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On 10/1/2019 at 10:07 PM, Thermos said:

I'm having trouble installing the mod. I've got a mac, and I opened the zip in the Data folder, but I've still got the old version. Would you mind helping me out? 

PLEASE? 

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17 hours ago, Thermos said:

PLEASE? 

Mac install instructions should be as follows:

1) In Steam, right click UGCW and select Properties. 

2) Click local files, then select browse local files

3) right click 'Ultimate General Civil War' and select 'show package contents'

4) navigate (relative path) to /Contents/

    a) Place the 'Mod' folder in Contents/

5) navigate (relative path) to /Contents/Resources/Data/

    a) Copy the resources.assets file into /Data/

    b) Copy the /Managed/Assembly-CSharp.dll file from the mod release into the /Managed/ folder, overwriting the existing file

 

You should be able to just overwrite all the files from the old version. Hope this helps.

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I love the mod, actually makes the game fun again. not that it wasn't fun to begin with i just figured out how to cheese it, anyways no tangents, My only issue with the mod is how slow my brigadier Generals get promoted. I had Colonels who had fought in literally every battle from start to Cold Harbour  and had not gotten Brig Gen yet. James Archer who got wounded every other battle, is the only one i can maybe understand, but Jackson barely made Brig Gen before the brig gen i put in charge of my division made Lt.Gen.

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36 minutes ago, michaelsmithern said:

I love the mod, actually makes the game fun again. not that it wasn't fun to begin with i just figured out how to cheese it, anyways no tangents, My only issue with the mod is how slow my brigadier Generals get promoted. I had Colonels who had fought in literally every battle from start to Cold Harbour  and had not gotten Brig Gen yet. James Archer who got wounded every other battle, is the only one i can maybe understand, but Jackson barely made Brig Gen before the brig gen i put in charge of my division made Lt.Gen.

The xp threshold to hit BG in the mod is higher than a MG in the base game. The officer performs the same regardless of rank, it just limits the ability to very quickly get MG and LTGs in corps command.

It is still possible to level officers very quickly by putting them in command of new units. Stat gain decreases the higher the stat is, and officer xp is based on stat gain. This is why officers in command of your veteran units will usually not gain much xp. Corps Command and division command give flat xp rewards by battle, so that can also be used though it is generally slower than brigade command.

We are planning on changing this system a bit in the future so that BG is a bit easier to get to. But part of the issue is that when the above is used efficiently you can probably level officers too quickly. It is relatively easy to have a MG by Bull Run and with some luck a LTG by Shiloh if you are optimizing as much as possible.

Edited by pandakraut

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On 10/19/2019 at 1:15 PM, pandakraut said:

Mac install instructions should be as follows:

1) In Steam, right click UGCW and select Properties. 

2) Click local files, then select browse local files

3) right click 'Ultimate General Civil War' and select 'show package contents'

4) navigate (relative path) to /Contents/

    a) Place the 'Mod' folder in Contents/

5) navigate (relative path) to /Contents/Resources/Data/

    a) Copy the resources.assets file into /Data/

    b) Copy the /Managed/Assembly-CSharp.dll file from the mod release into the /Managed/ folder, overwriting the existing file

 

You should be able to just overwrite all the files from the old version. Hope this helps.

Thanks for responding. Obviously, I'm not too computer savvy, and your patience is super appreciated. What is meant by, "Copy the resources.assets file into /Data/?' I'm confused because that's where it already is. And when I place a copy of the Assembly-CSharp.dII file in the Managed folder, I get no prompt to overwrite an existing file. No worries, if I'm too technologically inept to be helped. I can do with the old version, but I'd certainly love to give this one a go. 

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Hi pandakraut

Having a lot of fun with your mod on MG. Encounters are very tight and challenging, but skirmisher balance completely ruined the experience for me. Had very good fun-wise run with peak at Shiloh, then got the money and the guns to get my 2 skir+sniper team and... game becomes a mind numbing slog as you watch invincible skirmishers (cover bonuses) decimate a 2k brigade. Okay, skirmishers can get in a tight spot and say goodbye to those guys, but snipers flanking an enemy AI which does absolutely nothing about them? 32 thousands kills on 2nd Bull Run? I'm not even good at this game, I took me 10 tries to get through Shiloh smoothly on MG.  

Yes, I can pretend like WS TS does not exist, but it does and enemy 2-3 star skirmishers as well. I think skirmishers need a serious whack and WS TS some good nerfing so it's viable only on a really high value target. And some stealth penalties if skir brigade is above 300. I don't know how it works internally and if it's possible, but skirmishers biggest issues are 1. ridiculous cover 2. 700 dudes hiding in plain sight, the stealth is too good. 

Otherwise amazing experience, leagues above vanilla game, but introduction of mid game skirmishers into my campaign completely destroyed my fun. 

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On 10/25/2019 at 10:49 PM, Thermos said:

Thanks for responding. Obviously, I'm not too computer savvy, and your patience is super appreciated. What is meant by, "Copy the resources.assets file into /Data/?' I'm confused because that's where it already is. And when I place a copy of the Assembly-CSharp.dII file in the Managed folder, I get no prompt to overwrite an existing file. No worries, if I'm too technologically inept to be helped. I can do with the old version, but I'd certainly love to give this one a go. 

There should be a /Contents/Resources/Data/ folder which contains a resources.assets file from the base game install. You want to copy the file of the same name out of the zip you downloaded and overwrite the existing file.

The Assembly-Csharp.dll file in the zip needs to similarly be copied over an existing file. 

Unfortunately, I don't have a mac so I can't provide much more detail. Hopefully you are able to get it working.

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3 hours ago, ehch said:

Hi pandakraut

Having a lot of fun with your mod on MG. Encounters are very tight and challenging, but skirmisher balance completely ruined the experience for me. Had very good fun-wise run with peak at Shiloh, then got the money and the guns to get my 2 skir+sniper team and... game becomes a mind numbing slog as you watch invincible skirmishers (cover bonuses) decimate a 2k brigade. Okay, skirmishers can get in a tight spot and say goodbye to those guys, but snipers flanking an enemy AI which does absolutely nothing about them? 32 thousands kills on 2nd Bull Run? I'm not even good at this game, I took me 10 tries to get through Shiloh smoothly on MG.  

Yes, I can pretend like WS TS does not exist, but it does and enemy 2-3 star skirmishers as well. I think skirmishers need a serious whack and WS TS some good nerfing so it's viable only on a really high value target. And some stealth penalties if skir brigade is above 300. I don't know how it works internally and if it's possible, but skirmishers biggest issues are 1. ridiculous cover 2. 700 dudes hiding in plain sight, the stealth is too good. 

Otherwise amazing experience, leagues above vanilla game, but introduction of mid game skirmishers into my campaign completely destroyed my fun. 

Thanks for the feedback. Skirmishers are definitely an issue currently. Some planned changed for them include lowering the maximum unit size for the  player, adjusting some of their perks, and adding some extra spotting bonuses to other unit types. The Whitworth TS also probably needs a bit of a reduction in range.

Stealth penalties as the unit grows in size is an interesting idea. I don't think the game currently implements it but I'll have to confirm. If it doesn't I think that is something I can add. That does seem like it would help the situation a bit as 200-300 man skirmishers seem mostly reasonable(within the bounds of ridiculous kill rates the game allows) but it sounds like it's the 500+ man skirmisher brigades where the numbers get really ridiculous.

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8 hours ago, pandakraut said:

Thanks for the feedback. Skirmishers are definitely an issue currently. Some planned changed for them include lowering the maximum unit size for the  player, adjusting some of their perks, and adding some extra spotting bonuses to other unit types. The Whitworth TS also probably needs a bit of a reduction in range.

Stealth penalties as the unit grows in size is an interesting idea. I don't think the game currently implements it but I'll have to confirm. If it doesn't I think that is something I can add. That does seem like it would help the situation a bit as 200-300 man skirmishers seem mostly reasonable(within the bounds of ridiculous kill rates the game allows) but it sounds like it's the 500+ man skirmisher brigades where the numbers get really ridiculous.

Definitely needs stealth effectiveness curve, not only because of the player's abuse, but because of AI too. Face-checking a 800 man skirmisher pack is really funny sometimes. 

But cover is a big thing too, sometimes it gets absurd how durable cover-perked skirmisher squad is. Perks give too much of cover. 

Regarding AI and snipers I have an observation. When attacked by a TS squad, the AI doesn't do much, but when it's artillery he starts moving and doing something. Maybe a good solution to AI's paralysis would be to switch (hack) TS's and Enfield (500 range gun) type of attack from musket to artillery so the player will do at least some work for those kills and have a chance to screw it up in process.  

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On 10/28/2019 at 3:03 PM, pandakraut said:

The Whitworth TS also probably needs a bit of a reduction in range.

Noooo! If anything it has too short range. IMO the fix for the WWTS should be vast reduction in availability for CSA. As I've mentioned often, there weren't more than 200 of them around in the whole war (apparently). I think one gifting of 100 of them from the government should suffice. That's my house rule on CSA, anyway.

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On 10/28/2019 at 6:35 PM, ehch said:

Regarding AI and snipers I have an observation. When attacked by a TS squad, the AI doesn't do much, but when it's artillery he starts moving and doing something. Maybe a good solution to AI's paralysis would be to switch (hack) TS's and Enfield (500 range gun) type of attack from musket to artillery so the player will do at least some work for those kills and have a chance to screw it up in process.  

This definitely won't fix the issue. The AI units are just as likely to stand around getting shot by hidden artillery as they are scoped rifles. On some maps the aggressiveness settings will cause they to go find hidden units, and occasionally they seem to remember a unit is in the area if they spot it once, but in general if your units are hidden the AI won't go after them at all even if they are taking fire.

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On 10/23/2019 at 1:13 PM, pandakraut said:

It is still possible to level officers very quickly by putting them in command of new units. Stat gain decreases the higher the stat is, and officer xp is based on stat gain. This is why officers in command of your veteran units will usually not gain much xp. Corps Command and division command give flat xp rewards by battle, so that can also be used though it is generally slower than brigade command.

My experience is that 'below-Colonel' officers promote overly quickly.  Put a Lt. Col or a Major in command of a unit (even a fairly veteran unit) and they will probably be promoted at the end of a single battle. 

Colonels - tho.  Nope, that's just a wall. Doesn't matter whether the unit they command is rookie or veteran; they just won't advance.  Period.  Don't know what it was you guys did in order to cause this glitch, but I sincerely hope you will fix it.  It's not absolutely horrible, but it's certainly annoying.  Don't know if the issue lies with the original ugcw engine, but this imbalance wasn't a problem in the legacy game.

Footnote:  Slower advancement when commanding a more veteran unit is counter-intuitive and a-historical.  A more veteran unit simply performs better than a less-veteran unit, as does a more veteran commander. Even in the Civil War, performance could - as it should - beget advancement.

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OH my!NuvY3maLkV-lkDU_3MsfJwjGHxwue08T6sGQIPT0ONYlOFovreHNYrxmMJvsdE4YBYiZzCeDf388_mCIAr9slDIrX6yneOrSldF2hUVPzkO9pEDhRf8mtFRAuFTUMr9vr16pSvPt1s7pTNKwIthmaQpM0TDzaCGvZZCMj5AJR5ciboY7Tvb7rwzVWZPfL88Ey-aJV-27usrZw78i38RM_xlGRhzHX_7x_Fmgbuc9nwFrUvx3RnUWzlZCAuxysdb-vPJrBZHnob5g2-azzumnsNFqbSf2U_2ZNnoq0x3UQz3irpKGq4KPH3tp1FTiP9N2YACuDhVF_UQ6wH2mhFvxO2RMSOyK2QD71EOVya6awWB0gCz8VMIWjEC5GHjhiQwYI1naKXD_TmqfGROcw4Mu8ANSw-hJ6Bk88hjp3pkgClDrGxrEX2phCMixxChHWxZslCFZOKto18A1LNyg7uClRrQyeiNVqW7h2jqyhKHvCRMyVazqmlhol9Q5Mb-O2KzUMIVZTQx20qg5rEZjtzW2TC_Pok8M-Ravf0PJ0mup0vdbD0DH_V3dcnUN_dnbY9F0bBvmKUi_l52QMxgD1sPndT6B1uttRDCbCSYgBd6Qft0BoaKvXNqygtG9N9rqrcXym0mqW98orExlacgjXw-hI5HmIwhUuewhVJ7pcOARgDZXBYuniwMFgPiKRLJk_je1mBxcwhVmCFG7ekEQsQT40gjqmUQ3PO3Z-Wu2mlffjCLnns8C=w1172-h625-no

Reloaded thousands of time to beat Shiloh on legendary, timer ends with green check of the objective but still going to the next day.

Check the linked screenshot.

I'm really confused.

 

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oh well.

Reload again and achieved victory.

Seem that you need to hurry on previous objectives so scene change trigger before time run out.

Need to make the last scene timer run out before night and then capture the landing triggers the victory.

Took half of my army to achieve this.

This battle is really hard, your reinforcement just can't do the thing's like your army. I suppose it's because of the short range of their weapon.

 

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