mod J & P Rebalance Mod by JonnyH13 and Pandakraut 05/06/2023 1.28.4

[pandakraut]

7 hours ago, Lucasiewicz said:

1) is this mod compatible with the UI and AI customizations mod? Or is the one integrated in the other?

The mods are not compatible, however effectively everything in the customizations mod is already in the Rebalance mod. The two giant exceptions are the modded size curves and the 1.7 changes. I'm still working on getting the Rebalance Mod updated with those.

7 hours ago, Lucasiewicz said:

2) I've started the game with a Union campaign as Brigade General (no bonuses or penalties). I've just completed Gaines's Mill and found it ridiculously easy so far, having won fairly easily every battle a long the way thus far, inflicting enormous damage on the CSA (kill ratio's are far too high when compared to the historical battles). Will it get more difficult in the later campaign by itself or do I need to restart on Major General difficulty, though I resent the idea of unfair bonuses and penalties  Is a CSA campaign more difficult compared to a Union campaign? Lastly for this point, why I do dare ask it here: will this mod make things harder for the player? Does it make the general-AI more capable?

Kill ratios being to high is partially carry over from how the original game was balanced. We have some ideas on how to get around it that we are experimenting with.

If BG is to easy now it won't really get harder later. You'll just keep getting more and more ahead. This is an issue that all difficulties suffer to an extent, but jumping up a difficulty is probably the right choice if you're looking for more of a challenge. Several of the mods changes to difficulty don't fully kick in until the harder difficulties. 

In the base game the CSA campaign starts easier and ends harder with the reverse for the Union. In the mod this is generally the case as well.

The mod makes things both harder and easier. Harder in that the AI gets more resources(max unit size increase, unit splitting), those resources matter more(higher experience units are much more dangerous than in base game), and mistakes are punished more(condition penalties and melee deadliness). On the other hand you can specialize your units more to abuse the AI weaknesses in ways you can't in the base game(something being worked on). On the difficulty it is primarily designed for I think it makes the game harder overall, though there are definitely some balance outliers that need to be addressed.

In terms of improvements to the AI decision making, we are rather limited in what we can do but we have improved a few things. The AI can no longer be tricked into charging halfway across the map, is less likely to stand in water exchanging fire, and coming soon it will actually try to target your artillery under certain conditions instead of just targeting the closest unit.

7 hours ago, Lucasiewicz said:

3) I've understood that the mod is more focused on a CSA-campaign play-through as it stands so far?

No side focus in the mod. With the customizations mod I just happened to fix the reinforcements for the CSA first since I'd just completed a video series on it and had more detailed saves to test everything against.

[BCH]

Salem Church = draw

I view this battle as simply a spoiler.. not uncommon in other games with a campaign mode.

Getting the draw is not a problem.. winning requires you to 'game' the battle for the most part.

[pandakraut]

23 minutes ago, BCH said:

Salem Church = draw

I view this battle as simply a spoiler.. not uncommon in other games with a campaign mode.

Getting the draw is not a problem.. winning requires you to 'game' the battle for the most part.

I was testing the new version of it last night. I think it should now be playable if still quite difficult. I haven't managed to beat it yet on Legendary, but I think it's possible so on MG and lower it should be alright. As opposed to the 1.24 version where I don't know anyone who has even managed to cheese a win on legendary.

[BCH]

1 hour ago, pandakraut said:

I was testing the new version of it last night. I think it should now be playable if still quite difficult. I haven't managed to beat it yet on Legendary, but I think it's possible so on MG and lower it should be alright. As opposed to the 1.24 version where I don't know anyone who has even managed to cheese a win on legendary.

It would be nice if the Union had some fast movers (skirmishers); I just can not seem to get any Union brigades into a flanking position fast enough.

[BCH]

2nd Winchester is a mess..

first attempt was a draw.. lost 3 complete Union divisions.

2nd attempt was a win.. lost every 3 star brigade, and 1 complete division

Outnumbered 3:1.. with CSA skirmishers wearing bullet proof fatigues..

3rd attempt pending.. pulled back to the edge of town next to the fort; waiting...

[BCH]

3rd attempt is a win.

Lost a 1 star skirmisher unit operating in the CSA rear.. why it could not see the 800 man CSA brigade in the same woods until they actually ran into them.. I have no idea.

Union Snipers were sent to the extreme CSA left flank; where they routed one CSA battery after another.

Eventually CSA losses while attempting to take the fort proved too much, and the Union pushed back and retook Winchester.

Initial troop numbers:

Union                    vs                        CSA

Inf   8,100             vs                       25,838
guns     96            vs                               77

Losses

Inf  4,103             vs                         19,947
guns   11              vs                                55

 

I am going to do a fourth attempt and replace the one skirmisher unit with mounted infantry..  there were quite a few opportunities to capture supply wagons, and pick off batteries mid battle. The skirmisher unit that I lost, was not fast enough to catch the supply wagons.

 

All in all, I am in fine shape for Gettysburg without a replay.

 

[BCH]

Fourth attempt at 2nd Winchester:

I replaced the one skirmisher unit with an 800 man mounted infantry brigade (cavalry 2 star with speed and carbine proficiency).

The unit was sent far south of Winchester..they spotted and subsequently destroyed a CSA battery moving into position southeast of Winchester. They then continued  along the southern most portion of the battlefield to the rear of the CSA line. They intercepted Ewell and supply wagons in the Rebel rear; the wagons were captured and Ewell was forced from the field. (Note: I am not sure how much removing an AI commander from battle impacts the remaining AI forces; but it must have some impact.) The mounted infantry unit then harassed CSA batteries and brigades on the western edge of Winchester.

Union losses were about 1,500 less in this attempt; should have been less, but I pushed to retake Winchester a bit too soon.

Statistics:

Union                           vs                              CSA
Inf         6,400              vs                               25,755
Cav          800              vs                                         0
Art        2,390/97        vs                                  3,016/125

Losses
 Inf        2,801              vs                               19,798
Cav          293              vs                                         -
Art           372/13        vs                                 2,343/93
Missing       0              vs                                    473             

 

This mod is very close to perfect, it provides good game play coupled with the ability to use period tactics. Flanks are vulnerable as they should be; skirmishers(or pickets as they were called in the time period)  are now very important; cavalry can be used as intended and not be caught by an infantry brigade in open ground; and artillery is excellent (the casualties produced by artillery during the civil war were extreme in most cases; first hand accounts speak of double canister, and some accounts mention loading triple canister).

Edited June 2, 2019 by BCH
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[BCH]

The accuracy of civil war cannons"

4'x6' targets @ 1,000 yards.. enjoy:

 

[Lucasiewicz]

Thanks for the answers!

I ended up installing the latest version of this mod and starting my first CSA campaign. I finished my first battle last night, The Potomac Fort. Damn, this mod plays completely different than the base game. Not being able to form skirmishers out of my brigades and having none from the start is really hampering my flanking abilities  And what the hell, compared to vanilla, those green brigades with those early-war weapons are almost completely ineffective 🙂 it's going to take some time getting used to! 

That's only one small battle and you immediately feel what this mod is intended to do. Great job! I'll be playing some more in the next days, but my spare-time is limited at the moment. Two weeks to go and my exams will be over and then...  

[BCH]

Gettysburg 2nd day on MG lvl is seriously flawed. (and that has nothing to do with the mod)

Like many of the multi-phased battles, it seldom matters how well you did in the previous phase. Any advantage you held is gone when the next phase starts.

I played an exceptional battle for the first phase of Gettysburg; basically annihilated the attacking forces and was firmly in control of Cemetery Hill with minimal to moderate casualties in the brigades. That should have resulted in a strong position on Cemetery Hill for the next phase.. but no.

The most annoying thing for this campaign is that I will need to re-organize my Corps.. which means starting Gettysburg over from the beginning.

[pandakraut]

35 minutes ago, BCH said:

Gettysburg 2nd day on MG lvl is seriously flawed. (and that has nothing to do with the mod)

Like many of the multi-phased battles, it seldom matters how well you did in the previous phase. Any advantage you held is gone when the next phase starts.

I played an exceptional battle for the first phase of Gettysburg; basically annihilated the attacking forces and was firmly in control of Cemetery Hill with minimal to moderate casualties in the brigades. That should have resulted in a strong position on Cemetery Hill for the next phase.. but no.

The most annoying thing for this campaign is that I will need to re-organize my Corps.. which means starting Gettysburg over from the beginning.

One advantage that doing on day 1 does get you is on the day 2 first phase of Culp's Hill. The units in that area are partially from day 1 and if you destroy or damage a lot of them you can get an easy win at Culp's Hill. It will take some scouting to figure out where the line is weak depending on what you damaged, but you can sneak in behind their lines from the south east and then wrap the Cemetery Hill VP without having to bother with Culp's Hill itself.

To maximize your deployment at Culp's Hill you want to max out the number of brigades in your center and left corps(can transfer them between days). You'll get half of the center corps and nearly all of the left corps.

[Minas Moth]

@BCH regarding the 2nd Winchester as the Union... What I do I play with at least 4 or 5 artillery regiments, 1 or 2 snipers and rest is regular infantry... And I usually get something like 15:1 casualties in my favor... What I found out is that for 2nd Winchester the best thing to do is to bring the very best units you have. The North approach can be easily defended with a single infantry regiment supported by one sniper and artillery unit. And if positioned directly, at least one artillery unit from the center will be able to shoot the flank of the Rebels trying to move up North. South is more tricky, but it is easy with 2 to 3 brigades of infantry in the town. What I do i put the Iron Brigade (one you get after Antietam) on the far East of the town and slightly Southwest of the fort (2nd Victory point). Iron Brigade is fast and has great melee and stamina stats so its perfect fast reaction force. And as always vision is King. Your snipers scout and your 2 and 3 star artillery units obliterate the enemy... Cake walk battle.

[Lucasiewicz]

I ended up restarting my campaign, I started it on MG now 🙂

 

Is that first mission supposed to be that hard? Too bad the AI doesn't seem to know when to give up an attack and fall back into a better defensive position. Sadly, pursuing a breaking enemy without artillery support against an enemy with artillery cover from deep behind is quite deadly in this mod. Took me a while to be able to reach the Union artillery batteries without decent cavalry, artillery or skirmisher support. But seeing that the clock for this mission was quite in favour of the union, I had to sort out of the fort, otherwise they could endlessly hammer away at us with their artillery and ironclads. Tougher one than that Phillippi one for the Union. Or is it the mod? 🙂 

On a different note: do all posts here have to be pre-approved by a moderator? Takes roughly up to 16h before they get approved... Guess I should read forum rules...  

Edited June 3, 2019 by Lucasiewicz

[BCH]

11 hours ago, Minas Moth said:

@BCH regarding the 2nd Winchester as the Union...

 

11 hours ago, Minas Moth said:

Your snipers scout and your 2 and 3 star artillery units obliterate the enemy...

Similar to the last strategy I tried.. works rather well. I added an 800 man cavalry unit to the mix, armed with carbines (what I call mounted infantry). I used that unit to spot the flanks, capture supply wagons, and engage batteries facing the other way. In the last play through I trapped Ewell in a corner.

Edited June 3, 2019 by BCH
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[BCH]

The crux of my issue with the 2nd day at Gettysburg (as Union) is that my current army organization (not the Career AO) is insufficient to hold the three required objectives. II Corp has this assignment, and the first two divisions the brigades are solid 1 star with good weapons, one 2 star is armed with 1863s; only two brigades in the 3rd division are armed with muskets (in what is a strange coincidence, one of those brigades is commanded by Meagher, and I named the brigade the 'Irish Brigade' of course; it stands firm while under multiple enemy brigade fire.. can't account for it). Brigade size is 1,000 and I have 6 Batteries in the initial Union deployment on day 2.

The scaling produces an over 2:1 advantage for the CSA at the start; as attrition occurs on the Union side, the CSA advantage pushes toward 3:1. When Union reinforcements arrive, they seldom can get into position to support the besieged Union position on Little Round Top. By the time final Union reinforcements arrive it is too little too late.

The only solution I see at the moment is to increase brigade sizes in II Corp up to 1,500 men; and reduce total divisions in III Corp down to 3-4 (final Union reinforcements) and increase manpower etc. in that Corp.

The most frustrating part is that Day one has I Corp very much intact; with the CSA AI stopping all attacks against Cemetery Hill with 2:00 to go on the timer. I held all but central most VP at the end of the first day; and could easily control them all; I believe the battle continues even if you have all the VPs on day

[BCH]

Gettysburg MG lvl, second play through..

Day 1

Buford sent his cavalry units to the far flanks; one objective is to seize any CSA supply wagons; the other objective will be to spot and harass incoming CSA brigades. Dismounted cavalry are deployed as skirmishers and will conduct a fighting withdrawal to the ridge to their rear; their objective is to delay the CSA advance long enough for the 1st Union reinforcements to set up a defensive line on Seminary Hill.

Bufords' cavalry did mange to capture a supply wagon, the added bonus is that two CSA brigades were drawn off the main attack in an attempt to recapture it. Incoming CSA reinforcements paused in their initial advance due to the close proximity of the Union Cavalry.

The Union skirmishers pulled back in a staggered fashion with the rear most units protecting the withdrawal of units to their front. Two Union skirmishers held their fortified positions until the last possible minute.. and under cover of Calef's battery withdrew under light CSA fire. Calef's battery then withdrew completely to the area adjacent to the deepest railroad cut. 3 Union skirmishers have withdrawn NE and north of the Oak Hill objective with CSA brigades diverting in their direction.

The first Union reinforcements were able to set up completely with their supporting batteries without taking any fire from CSA brigades. The scattered CSA brigades are attacking in a disorganized fashion and are taking heavy casualties. CSA batteries are being destroyed by the Union long range 20pdr Parrots (both 2 star). Bufords' units to the NE continue to harass and stretch out the CSA brigades; Union cavalry are keeping many CSA batteries un-limbered.

Second Union reinforcements came in and mostly set up just West of Gettysburg itself; the batteries in that group joined the line on the ridge. CSA attacks are becoming somewhat more coordinated; but taking heavy casualties. CSA batteries are largely ineffective with several not engaged.

Third Union reinforcements came in and set up defensive positions on Cemetery Hill; Union batteries on Seminary Hill slowly withdrew to Cemetery Hill.. Infantry brigades then also slowly withdrew to Cemetery Hill. Buford's skirmishers are still keeping CSA brigades scattered, but are slowly pulling back to the vicinity of Cemetery Hill. CSA brigades are largely being destroyed as they assault Cemetery Hill.

Note: time to go is 2:55, CSA AI is no where close  to taking the Cemetery Hill VP... Union casualties are a bit higher than my first play through but not excessive. My 800 man Mounted Inf. brigade is now at 745, more than enough to keep re-taking the other VPs and destroying CSA brigade remnants.

The trick of course is to see if my reorganization of II & III Corp will work on Day 2

[pandakraut]

20 hours ago, BCH said:

The only solution I see at the moment is to increase brigade sizes in II Corp up to 1,500 men; and reduce total divisions in III Corp down to 3-4 (final Union reinforcements) and increase manpower etc. in that Corp.

I haven't checked the exact Union deployments at Gettysburg but I would recommend always trying to have a full 30 brigades in any corps that is actively engaged. This may require playing a phase for a bit, figuring out which corps send reinforcements and then restarting/moving units around. In most cases in the major battles, the more units that are in a corps the more show up on the field earlier. Gettysburg in particular

[BCH]

2 hours ago, pandakraut said:

I haven't checked the exact Union deployments at Gettysburg but I would recommend always trying to have a full 30 brigades in any corps that is actively engaged. This may require playing a phase for a bit, figuring out which corps send reinforcements and then restarting/moving units around. In most cases in the major battles, the more units that are in a corps the more show up on the field earlier. Gettysburg in particular

The deployments are 30/30/30 with the last being labeled 3rd day reserves; although about 2+ or perhaps 3 divisions from the 'reserves' show up to support, in my case, II Corp in holding the VPs for the start of the 2nd day battle.

I definitely do not get a full II Corp at the beginning of day 2; partial II Corp and partial III Corp.

Day 1 is all I Corp, but again I do not believe I received the full 30 brigades.. I will check my saves tonight.

Edited June 4, 2019 by BCH
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[BCH]

MG level mechanics/coding questions:

CSA brigades (some) seem to have the ability to charge half way across the map with no apparent detriment to their condition (they are just as apt to do again almost immediately after stopping). On my day 1 at Gettysburg over coffee this morning.. a CSA brigade began a charge against my 800 man cavalry brigade 99% cond/moral which was at twice their rifle range. almost caught the cavalry unit toward the NW corner of the map.. Had I not tricked AI into going through the swamp they would have.

Is this a feature of MG level. or the current mod?

[pandakraut]

9 minutes ago, BCH said:

I definitely do not get a full II Corp at the beginning of day 2; partial II Corp and partial III Corp.

Day 1 is all I Corp, but again I do not believe I received the full 30 brigades.. I will check my saves tonight.

Sound like you want to shift units around so that you have 30 brigades in the corps 2 and the reserves on day 2 then. You likely won't get all of them, but that'll ensure you get as many as possible until I am able to fix those deploys.

Day 1 is the same thing, put 30 brigades in it to ensure you get as many as possible, but you'll almost certainly be short a few at the moment(base game issues).

[pandakraut]

3 minutes ago, BCH said:

MG level mechanics/coding questions:

CSA brigades (some) seem to have the ability to charge half way across the map with no apparent detriment to their condition (they are just as apt to do again almost immediately after stopping). On my day 1 at Gettysburg over coffee this morning.. a CSA brigade began a charge against my 800 man cavalry brigade 99% cond/moral which was at twice their rifle range. almost caught the cavalry unit toward the NW corner of the map.. Had I not tricked AI into going through the swamp they would have.

Is this a feature of MG level. or the current mod?

Not really a feature but more of an end result of various changes. The AI will happily charge across half the map in the base game if conditions were favorable. I assume that unit was a 2* or a 3*?

- As long as a unit's condition is > 0 and it's charge cooldown has recovered it can charge.
- Condition drain works based on the amount of time traveling through a specific terrain type. This means that if a unit is fast enough it spends very little time in the detrimental terrain and can run around for a long time. If the stars align and the AI randomizes a full set of speed perks an infantry unit could be at +125% move speed. This would enable a unit to charge for quite a while.

Condition definitely is draining on that unit. On long charges you can often visibly see a unit start to slow down as they get tired. The total amount of available speed bonuses does need to come down a bit though.

[BCH]

40 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

I assume that unit was a 2* or a 3*?

3* this morning.. 2* last night.

On my first play through at Gettysburg I just directed my Cavalry unit on a straight line back through my lines.. the charging CSA brigade obliged by doing a 180 and continued charging into the focused fire of all the Union batteries. The results were predictable.

[BCH]

6 hours ago, BCH said:

The deployments are 30/30/30 with the last being labeled 3rd day reserves; although about 2+ or perhaps 3 divisions from the 'reserves' show up to support, in my case, II Corp in holding the VPs for the start of the 2nd day battle.

I definitely do not get a full II Corp at the beginning of day 2; partial II Corp and partial III Corp.

Day 1 is all I Corp, but again I do not believe I received the full 30 brigades.. I will check my saves tonight.

Day 1 at Gettysburg with 30 brigades available in the select Corp for that day; First 4 divisions (20 brigades) will show up in three sets of reinforcements.

[BCH]

My current Army Organization pre-Gettysburg looks like this:

I Corp - 6 Divisions- 30 brigades total
II Corp - 6 Divisions - 30 brigades total
III Corp - 4 Divisions - 20 brigades total

My prior organization:

I Corp 6/30
II Corp 6/30
III Corp 5/25

2nd day deployment at Gettysburg is now 17 brigades to start the day, which is the same for my first attempt.

The difference is that now I have 10 Inf brigades 1,000 to 1,500 in size to start as compared to 7 Inf brigades in the prior attempt. I also have 7 batteries as compared to only 5 batteries.

III Corp comes in as the final reinforcements for day 2 phase 1; and these divisions are beefed up in numbers as well.

I believe the first reinforcements come from the Corp which starts.. I will need to check when they arrive.

 

This is a much better defensive deployment for the Union.. I will find out shortly if it is enough to hold through phase 1 of Day 2.

 

Cheers.. going to pour myself ae wee dram and start

 

[BCH]

First attempt with my revised II Corp was not successful, held Little Round Top much longer, but attrition forced the Union to withdraw.. reinforcements were ineffective.

Conclusion: trying to hold Little Round Top in the historical manner does not work.. so.. I put a token defense on Little Round Top and put everyone else north of it.. the attrition is now reversed..

One surprise.. CSA has CSA entrenchments only immediately south of Little Round Top.. either never noted them when playing CSA or never sent units that way.

more to follow

Edited June 5, 2019 by BCH
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