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J & P Rebalance Mod by JonnyH13 and Pandakraut 05/06/2023 1.28.4


JonnyH13

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1 minute ago, Titan Uranus said:

Ok, is there a guide on how to increase deployment size? For 1st Bull Run in particular, it’s impossible to cover everything you need to cover with only five units.

In Ultimate General Civil War_Data\Mod\RebalanceConfigFile.csv you can increase the value of deploySizeMultiplier to get more units. Though the Bull Run value is currently hard coded because of technical restrictions.

5 units should be more than enough to cover the bridge and the ford which is all you need to before allied reinforcements start arriving. Fiasco has a video of the battle if you'd like to see one way of doing it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtxZMQlZ6ro

 

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3 hours ago, Titan Uranus said:

So, are the breechloading infantry rifles better than the muzzleloaders in any significant way? Because the stats don’t look too wildly divergent.

The repeaters are currently setup to fire at about the same rate as muzzle loaders but with a higher base damage to try and represent the higher volume of fire. It's not a great solution and we're going to try something else the next time around. The game mechanics don't really work well with repeaters though.

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9 hours ago, Titan Uranus said:

Ok, is there a guide on how to increase deployment size? For 1st Bull Run in particular, it’s impossible to cover everything you need to cover with only five units.

You really don't need more...your troops are the "elite". For dirty work use AI units you get... 

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@pandakraut yes, repeaters really do feel underwhelming... What I would suggest is to take more of a vanilla game approach. as they are expensive and you don't get any meaningful ammount of them till late game make them hit hard and fast... increased damage with lower accuracy is ok... but they shoot too slow. try playing with reload speed a bit but I dont think any repeater should have base reload of under 140... With them is more about volume of lead you can send down the range then need to hit accurately and if they have same base reload as normal rifled muskets then they really really underperform.

 

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5 hours ago, Minas Moth said:

You really don't need more...your troops are the "elite". For dirty work use AI units you get... 

That wasn’t really the issue, from Vanilla, I was used to being able to throw up detached skirmish lines to slow the enemy down.

 

Also, on hard the AI army is more than twice the size of your trickle of reinforcements. Their brigades are on the order of 4K while the reinforcements are 1k or smaller.

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17 minutes ago, Titan Uranus said:

That wasn’t really the issue, from Vanilla, I was used to being able to throw up detached skirmish lines to slow the enemy down.

 

Yeah, no more of that unless you want to spend 2 slots on dedicated skirmisher units with infantry weapons to replicate what detached skirmishers can do :)

19 minutes ago, Titan Uranus said:

Also, on hard the AI army is more than twice the size of your trickle of reinforcements. Their brigades are on the order of 4K while the reinforcements are 1k or smaller.

I'm a bit biased since I always play with small units, but you'd be surprised how well 1k units can do against 4k units. Just do everything you can to avoid ending up in melee.

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12 hours ago, pandakraut said:

The repeaters are currently setup to fire at about the same rate as muzzle loaders but with a higher base damage to try and represent the higher volume of fire. It's not a great solution and we're going to try something else the next time around. The game mechanics don't really work well with repeaters though.

I didn’t notice this before, but I meant infantry breach-loaders (sharps and trapdoor SF), not repeaters.

 

 

 

My issue was with not having enough tactical units to effectively flank enemy units, and not having detached skirmishers to slow them down before reinforcements arrive. 

 

I think I’ve gotten used to it now, probably should have started on medium, since I haven’t played in over a year, but I remember medium being far too easy by the half-way mark of my first campaign. Probably the quarter-way mark, actually.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Edited by Titan Uranus
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1 hour ago, pandakraut said:

I'm a bit biased since I always play with small units, but you'd be surprised how well 1k units can do against 4k units. Just do everything you can to avoid ending up in melee.

'avoid ending up in melee' or sucker AI into charging while you pull back the target and enfilade the AI brigade as it tries to melee.

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It has been done... Every battle a heroic victory... The Washington has fallen...

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Look at those sniper sowing death all arround...

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The Union suffered 1.281.487 soldiers killed...

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It was indeed a very enjoyus ride... thnx @pandakraut for a decent mod...

The battle itself was a total wipeout of enemy forces in every single phase... What I have found out to work best is to use only your best corps during attack phases (in my case the I and II Corps) I hadn't used flanking forces for attack at all. When the Washington city phase opens simply wait it out until map expands and your Norther forces (I and II Corps) are available to advance south. By doing that my III and IV (Light Corps) were untouched for the defense phase. For defense phase I used my second best Corps to defend the Northern forts and my elite II Corps to defend the city of Washington itself.

Also, what I have seen the worst thing a player can do when defending the forts is to put guns into forts gun emplacement... I tried that on my first try of the battle and my batteries got obliterated by overwhelming number of Union batteries. Second time around I didn't put any guns in gun emplacements. Instead I put them outside of the forts with good fields of fire to pick off enemy artillery batteries and they weren't as nearly focused on as before.

Edit II:

Also, @pandakraut there is one interesting glitch I found. When you defeat the Union reinforcements at the Fort Stevens phase if you send your troops all the way to the southern border of the map and make them "hug " the border they will appear from the start of the attack on Southern forts and City of Washington itself... It is probably a cheesy way of doing things as you can catch a lot of AI's forces out of position and take advantage of it. Didn't do it in this playthrough but I'll keep it in mind for legendary campaign probably.

Edited by Minas Moth
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23 hours ago, Titan Uranus said:

I think I’ve gotten used to it now, probably should have started on medium, since I haven’t played in over a year, but I remember medium being far too easy by the half-way mark of my first campaign. Probably the quarter-way mark, actually.

I would recommend going through maybe Malvern Hill and then evaluating if you want to jump back up to hard. The starts can be a bit rough until you get used to the mod, but there are similar issues with the campaign becoming to easy later on.

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21 hours ago, Minas Moth said:

Also, what I have seen the worst thing a player can do when defending the forts is to put guns into forts gun emplacement... I tried that on my first try of the battle and my batteries got obliterated by overwhelming number of Union batteries. Second time around I didn't put any guns in gun emplacements. Instead I put them outside of the forts with good fields of fire to pick off enemy artillery batteries and they weren't as nearly focused on as before.

Agreed, using the emplacements leaves your artillery far more vulnerable than either putting them in the middle of the fort or further back depending on the size.

21 hours ago, Minas Moth said:

Also, @pandakraut there is one interesting glitch I found. When you defeat the Union reinforcements at the Fort Stevens phase if you send your troops all the way to the southern border of the map and make them "hug " the border they will appear from the start of the attack on Southern forts and City of Washington itself... It is probably a cheesy way of doing things as you can catch a lot of AI's forces out of position and take advantage of it. Didn't do it in this playthrough but I'll keep it in mind for legendary campaign probably.

You can do this in any battle which has similar map expansions. You can swap units between the right and left flanks at Shiloh for example. This won't work at something like Cold Harbor where the left and right flanks are separate maps. I recently made a video of the first day of Washington using the UI mod and I use the unit transferring several times. Makes the 2nd day city section much easier.

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Just finished the Union Campaign on BG level; Richmond fell with a whimper...

 

CSA was seriously out-matched by the end of the campaign. In the battles up to Richmond it was not so much  being out-matched numerically, in fact, most of the time the Union had less troops in the battles. The Union steadily gained improved weapons and their brigades steadily improved; I Corp for example had four 3 star Inf. brigades and two 3 star batteries; with all the other brigades as two star by the time of Richmond.

I took almost every battle to the end of the timer; this allowed an incredible amount of CSA weapons to be recovered and used by the Union troops.

The only battle in which I did not engage, was the cavalry raid 'deep into enemy territory' where you run up against J.E.B. Stuart's troops in the end game. I find that battle to be an exercise in futility for little gain if you win (by mostly gaming it) and a major loss in prestige if you lose.

In most battles there was a point where you needed to carefully micro-manage the Union brigades to either pull off the win and/or keep your losses to a minimum.

Overall, it was a big improvement since I last played several months ago.

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I started a Union campaign at the MG level..

First attempt at Phillipi was a complete disaster for the Union.

In part due to a large CSA unit routing into the north woods on the Union side of the river. This brigade continued to 'flank' the Union units in Phillipi as the battle proceeded; despite pushing that CSA brigade back into the woods each time they recovered.

In the second attempt at Phillipi, I planned for the possibility of a similar action and made sure that all CSA units could retreat back into Phillipi by making sure Union brigades did not block the retreats. That worked.

Despite being out numbered by slightly more than two to one; the Union prevailed.  Most importantly, the brigades of the  first division of the Union I Corp had low casualties and high experience. The amount and quality of captured weapons was okay, enough to outfit one 1,000 man Union Brigade with better than musket weapons.

 

on to the next battle

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4 hours ago, Minas Moth said:

@ BCH I wish you best of luck with the Union campaign start... If you get past Shiloh you are set for the entire campaign...

Thanks, I am going to need a bit of luck...

Distress Call was a Pyrrhic victory; while I  destroyed well over half of the CSA manpower (CSA had a bit more than a 2:1 advantage), it took the Union I Corp  down to just above half strength. The starting manpower for the Union Inf. brigades was 1,000. The cost to bring I Corp back to full strength exceeded the amount in the treasury. The plus to this battle was getting 3 Inf brigades to two stars, and one battery to two stars.

The biggest issue came with a CSA brigade charging my left flank. It was routed, but unfortunately it routed away from the flank and slightly to the rear of my line. In addition to delaying the Union from attacking the CSA right flank, this situation required dedicating a brigade to guarding the left flank, and a bit later a battery to try and force the CSA brigade to retreat to its own lines.

CSA batteries did a lot of damage to I Corp brigades until the CSA brigades in front of their batteries were forced to retreat leaving the CSA batteries vulnerable to flanking by Union Inf.hi

Bull Run was a hard fought draw. The Ohio and NY brigades and batteries performed remarkably well at the Stone Bridge and the ford north of the bridge. A three star CSA brigade was completely destroyed at the Stone Bridge. The initial Union attack goes rather well, few casualties while pushing the CSA brigades away from the first objective. However, Sherman and Franklin with a ten to one advantage get held up by a much smaller and damaged CSA brigade at the ford, despite having three Union batteries supporting the attack.

Howard brigade retreats from an under whelming attack on the Union left flank; and while the CSA brigade is forced back, Howard is at almost zero morale and condition. Shortly after that, the Wilcox brigades do the same thing on the other flank. All of this delays the Union advance to Henry Hill. The initial CSA brigades fall back greatly reduced in numbers and are not really a factor in the rest of the battle. Franklin and Sherman finally force the ford, but by then they are very much exhausted and play only a minor role in getting to Henry Hill. The delay in getting to and setting up a true defensive line at Henry Hill pretty much decides the battle. Neither side can take Henry Hill before the timer runs down.

River Crossing is probably a win with low casualties. I was able to bring I Corp to full strength by not starting the II Corp build.

I have my doubts about Shiloh, even with solid wins at River Crossing and Crossroads I am not sure I will have sufficient resources to pull off Shiloh. In my opinion Bull Run is a must win battle. We will see in the next week.

 

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Hello Panda

I have a question.

iIPlay the union campain on hard and in the battle on gettysburg.

Now i see the second time that when i start the battle where you can choice the Corps for the different positions that i can take 30 Army Units per corp!

But in the battle i became only  over the time max!!! 16 army Units on the bettlefield, why there are so big diferences  between the Beginnig map and the really becoming Units in the battle???

in this situation i can use only 60% my corp that i have chose.

Did you have seen this failure in other  Battles??

Edited by sirwaldi
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1 hour ago, sirwaldi said:

But in the battle i became only  over the time max!!! 16 army Units on the bettlefield, why there are so big diferences  between the Beginnig map and the really becoming Units in the battle???

in this situation i can use only 60% my corp that i have chose.

Several of the grand battles in the game use a percentage deploy format. The idea is that if you have 4 sets of reinforcements then however many units you bring should get split into 4 parts. However there is a bug with this system so that in some battles you don't get the full set of units from the later sets of reinforcements.

At Gettysburg Day 1 there may also be some units withheld because the only parts of corps had arrived on the battlefield for the first day. Either way, your best option is to fill all available slots provided to you to get as many units as possible.

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On 4/26/2019 at 10:18 PM, pandakraut said:

Several of the grand battles in the game use a percentage deploy format. The idea is that if you have 4 sets of reinforcements then however many units you bring should get split into 4 parts. However there is a bug with this system so that in some battles you don't get the full set of units from the later sets of reinforcements.

At Gettysburg Day 1 there may also be some units withheld because the only parts of corps had arrived on the battlefield for the first day. Either way, your best option is to fill all available slots provided to you to get as many units as possible.

Thanks for the Information.

It helps well, i splittet the korps better and now i know About the bug...

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On 4/25/2019 at 5:53 AM, Minas Moth said:

@ BCH I wish you best of luck with the Union campaign start... If you get past Shiloh you are set for the entire campaign...

Well, the first Bull Run is a must win battle.. I did well with the River Crossing and Logans Crossroads, but ended up still with insufficient troops for Shiloh; so I went back and replayed the sequence of battles. This time Bull Run was a solid win; but I am in the same spot of a lack of resources before Shiloh.

I kept brigades to a maximum of 1,000 and most replacements were volunteers; but I find I can not afford to field two full corps before Shiloh. I am missing something in regards to overall strategy for the MG level.

Back to the war room.

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1 hour ago, BCH said:

Well, the first Bull Run is a must win battle.. I did well with the River Crossing and Logans Crossroads, but ended up still with insufficient troops for Shiloh; so I went back and replayed the sequence of battles. This time Bull Run was a solid win; but I am in the same spot of a lack of resources before Shiloh.

I kept brigades to a maximum of 1,000 and most replacements were volunteers; but I find I can not afford to field two full corps before Shiloh. I am missing something in regards to overall strategy for the MG level.

Back to the war room.

How many total divisions are you reaching Shiloh with? On MG I was able to have 7 full divisions and I would guess 5-6 would still be possible.

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1 hour ago, pandakraut said:

How many total divisions are you reaching Shiloh with? On MG I was able to have 7 full divisions and I would guess 5-6 would still be possible.

The best that I can bring to Shiloh is 2 Corp with 3 divisions each. I will be down in manpower for the brigades.  But could field 6 divisions total by deploying 500 strength skirmishers.

 

My Army Organization is only at 4. I could go back and replay from Bull Run onward to increase AO at the expense of Medicine, but my casualty rate has been high even with the wins.

Edited by BCH
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