mod J & P Rebalance Mod by JonnyH13 and Pandakraut 05/06/2023 1.28.4

[pandakraut]

31 minutes ago, dixiePig said:

It'd be nice - if unlikely - to have a game option which allowed you to set the game parameters as "Historic" at-the-push-of-a-button.  Unit sizes and army makeup would reflect historic levels, timelines, and profiles (with some wiggle room).

In the AIConfigFile and the ConfigFile you can change the unit size maximums for the AI and the player so you could implement this as you go through a campaign. Probably too many conflicting priorities for it to get implemented as a default in the main mod anytime soon though.

33 minutes ago, dixiePig said:

Although tempted to try Adishee's historically accurate mod (it has some wonderful attributes), I found it iffy to manage - and really didn't appreciate its refusal to allow you to save or backtrack on battles. (Adishee - That's how we learn) Still hoping to follow up on it at a later point, as it has many nice features.

I'm pretty sure he added a config option to disable ironman.

34 minutes ago, dixiePig said:

A nice-to-have at this point (for me, at least) would be tools to more easily and effectively edit, manage, and save alterations to the config files.

This is on the list to get to in one form or another. The next small update will be changing the files to .txt so there should be fewer issues with editing them for most users. There is also a config file guide in the /mod/rebalance folder which provides some detail on what everything does.

[dixiePig]

42 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

option to disable ironman.

Good to hear. Adishee's mod offers some good options.

42 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

This is on the list to get to in one form or another.

That'll be really helpful.  Thanks again, @pandakraut.  Config file guide.txt is an excellent resource :  Been using it - plus other notes from you - as I customize my games.  It'll be good to have them all in one place, updatable, and hopefully able to be commented, as well.

PS

Could you publish here the links for ...?

1. Your most recent RebalanceMod update
2. Adishee's mod

Edited March 15, 2021 by dixiePig
clarification & follow-up

[pandakraut]

1 hour ago, dixiePig said:

• Your most recent RebalanceMod update
• Adishee's mod

Latest release version is available in this thread. The next small update should be ready sometime this week.

Adishee's releases can be found here https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/34966-historical-submod-of-jp-rebalance-mod-release-thread/

In both cases testing versions may be available earlier in the discord channel.

[dixiePig]

 

 

2 hours ago, pandakraut said:

Latest release version is available in this thread.

ummm... thanks, @pandakraut - but there are hundreds of postings here.  Is this a test?

Spoiler Alert:  I'm a usability design professional.  imo The point is to make things easier for people. I look forward to the next update.

Thanks for providing an easily-usable direct link to Adishee's submod.  I'll take advantage of that.  Because it's easy.

[pandakraut]

41 minutes ago, dixiePig said:

ummm... thanks, @pandakraut - but there are hundreds of postings here.  Is this a test?

The link is always updated in the first post of the thread.

[dixiePig]

2 hours ago, pandakraut said:

The link is always updated in the first post of the thread.

Good to know.  Thanks for telling me.

[DB Jones]

Hi Panda, I'm not sure if this is previously mentioned in here - but is there a way to adjust weapon capture count post battle in the aiconfig file? I've been usng this mod for quite some time on BG and MG with MG usually scaled back to .8, and I'm really trying to not scale down enemy xp or scaling too much to keep it competitive...yet I am finding it almost impossible to properly arm my troops for CSA Shiloh because of a lack of captured arms even though i can 100% shatter/capture every army up until Shiloh, then after that battle it's all downhill when I can't afford to rebuild to fight the Union in the 7 days battles where the enemy is mostly 2* experience somehow and armed 40% and I can barely get past percussion muskets and 1* units past my first division. I mean hell, the enemy at that point charges 300 man cavalry units full frontal into my 1800 man brigades and captures them despite my supporting units firing into the melee. It's just horrifically difficult no matter what route I take (more points in training/logistics/politics/economy, i've tried all 4 ways over the last month)

I've tried BG at 125% enemy experience/size scaling...and it was still way too easy for me. By time I reached washington as CSA, I had 100k troops vs 250k troops, I wiped their entire army out and only lost 10k total. So I'm not a total shitter looking for an easier game overall lol.

Any advice would help! I want to keep up the competitive AI edge in battle to keep the game fun...but don't want to be completely gimped logistically and with experience of my troops. I've been trying this for months to no avail and If I have to restart and fight through shiloh one more time I'm gonna lose my mind

PS -   even if i could add extra general points early on, I think that would be wonderful as well.

Edited March 17, 2021 by DB Jones

[pandakraut]

1 hour ago, DB Jones said:

Hi Panda, I'm not sure if this is previously mentioned in here - but is there a way to adjust weapon capture count post battle in the aiconfig file?

There is not unfortunately, I looked into adding it recently but for various reasons it's fairly complicated to implement.

1 hour ago, DB Jones said:

I've tried BG at 125% enemy experience/size scaling...and it was still way too easy for me.

From some other players I heard they were going up to 1.5 or 1.75 in some cases for this approach.

1 hour ago, DB Jones said:

even if i could add extra general points early on, I think that would be wonderful as well.

This is unfortunately also not easy to do. We currently change those through hex editing. 

Some suggestions which may help.

- Are you using reputation to buy rifles? That can help a lot as buying them in bulk is very expensive. I try to buy very few infantry weapons in the early game when possible. I tend not to make units much larger than 1500 prior to shiloh as it makes it easier to use the weapons you do get. Muskets can still shoot pretty competitively with the other early weapons if you can work them into about half range.

- I would recommend 3-4 points in training to start the campaign. This makes it much easier to always field 1* units which will improve your results substantially over 0* units.

- Are you making use of carbine or revolver cavalry? Both are very strong at the moment though you do need to be careful with them.

- Shiloh is a long battle, are you taking time to give your units a chance to rest? The lower their condition the more vulnerable they will be to charges. On my way up to the landing I try to split the Union up the middle and then pull back my forces towards the landing. As this split develops you can usually start pulling units off the line and give them a chance to recover for a bit.

Some other config options that can help just to get through Shiloh and then you can reset them again as desired. In the AIConfigFile: AIInfantryMaxSize to limit the very large infantry brigades the AI can have at Shiloh, similar options exist for other unit types. duplicateRandomProbability can be set to 0. This will remove the chance that I units split into two. This will reduce the possible difficulty swings that can result if the AI's best units happen to get chosen to split.

Hope this helps. Glad to hear you've stuck with the mod despite the difficulty. If you have additional questions just ask.

[DB Jones]

Panda,

Yeah I figured the dropped guns couldn't be edited...I remember seeing that a year ago or so when I first got this mod, didn't know if it changed. Same with general talents/skills

I use the rep to buy the guns always!  I should prolly stop spending the rest on brigadiers and high level colonels for my first 2 divisions and buy more guns instead, and pull my numbers down to 1500 like you said. I also try to use shock brigades with muskets to push through the union charges successfully with lots of howitzers nearby. I can say I have mastered artillery in this game through the last 1.5 years lol

I usually destroy the union no problem at shiloh, I just hate having to prep for it. I often don't lose too many units in my corps and rely on the right wing to do most of the work while my artillery whittles down the union right at the river and let them come to me with their numbers. The problem is that in the next battle at Gaines Mill...I can barely field 4 divisions (including a flanking division) and often at this point my XP is suffering against their 2* brigades, despite absolutely annihilating the enemy at shiloh and the 3 valley campaign battles. It's the war of attrition that I lose, I rarely suffer heavy losses...I just can't seem to keep my brigades healthy leading up to Antietam unless I mess with aiconfig

I use cavalry very well, one issue I run into is union cav battalions of 300 with 2* can wipe out entire brigades of mine. In one battle 250 cav charged 3 of my musket brigades of 1800 and routed all 3 of them and took out a cannon before they fell back with 150 left. I was shocked and reset the battle

I limit enemy brigades to 3000, artillery to 600 (24 guns) skirmishers to 750 (tho i never see them that high) and cav to 600. I often don't like amping up past 3000 because the charge stacking the enemy does on MG makes it absurd to fight against what is essentially 3 divisions of charging union infantry through a small section of my line that I only have seconds to react to lol. I like to keep it realistic in that sense.

In the past I have messed with enemy size/equipment/xp...but I was preferring a more organic experience rather than fighting each battle to find out which aspect of the enemy is OP haha

Overall, I usually take training to 4 or 6 at start of the campaign...but tried politics/economy/logistics because twice I failed to field a reasonable army to win at gaines mill in a row and had to reset the campaign. I usually prefer to use ranger style skirmishers (by my own account, accuracy focused troops who use regular rifles/sharps/the 500 range rifle) but I find that early on removing a brigade to take on a skirmisher unit is really harmful towards my progression in MG

I'll try 4 training again and tweak the aiconfig I suppose. I love this mod and the ability to play with the config file, keep up the good work! I love a game that is actually challenging without having to resort to absurd playstyles to win haha. This mod takes what I think is the best civil war game ever made...and makes it even better. I'd compare it to how Rome Total Realism 7.0 made Rome Total War 1 an amazing game even 10 to 15 years after release.

[DB Jones]

I guess one major question I have - is it worth spending reputation/cash on brigadiers or named colonels? Or should i just stick to low level colonels/high level lt colonels

Or to use it exclusively for armaments to build up my brigade sizes using lower level lt colonels? Let's consider I went with 4 training 3 economy like I am currently doing in my restart of the campaign with .8 ai exp gain and 2500 max brigade sizes

Edited March 17, 2021 by DB Jones

[DB Jones]

On 3/9/2021 at 2:06 PM, KeithD said:

I don't really see the point of playing MG when players spend the whole time trying not avoid scaling.  Why not just play BG and ramp up the AI experience / increase duplications to make the game a harder challenge?

I enjoy the enhanced AI difficulty of MG, plus on BG I ended up with somewhere around 200,000 unused 1861 rifles, and 400 cannon that I just couldn't put to use because my army was already obscenely large.

I don't want the difficulty to be ramped up artificially, I wanna fight a more difficult minded ai opponant. I've beaten BG on higher scaling way too much to ever want to do it again lol , it feels like ez mode to the point that even my freshest 4th corp was armed exclusively with lorenz and 24 inch howitzer/20lb parrot upon forming up all 30k or so of em haha

[pandakraut]

10 hours ago, DB Jones said:

The problem is that in the next battle at Gaines Mill...I can barely field 4 divisions (including a flanking division) and often at this point my XP is suffering against their 2* brigades, despite absolutely annihilating the enemy at shiloh and the 3 valley campaign battles. It's the war of attrition that I lose, I rarely suffer heavy losses...I just can't seem to keep my brigades healthy leading up to Antietam unless I mess with aiconfig

This part is confusing to me. You want to try to be going into Shiloh with 15-24 units and into Gaines Mill with 30-40. If you're not increasing your number of units at all from Shiloh up to Gaines Mill casualties have to be too high somewhere. This is another case where I'd definitely advocate building wide instead of tall. I'd much rather have 30k men spread across 30 units than 30k spread across 20 for example. 

Are you trying to keep your allied units alive when possible? Or still suiciding them for their weapons? That return rate was changed so that it's more beneficial not to get them killed now in case you missed that patch note.

10 hours ago, DB Jones said:

I guess one major question I have - is it worth spending reputation/cash on brigadiers or named colonels? Or should i just stick to low level colonels/high level lt colonels

For the CSA I don't think I ever used rep on early officers, though if you get a bad barracks spawn one might be worth it. For the Union I'll usually buy a few, but they need to expand their number of units much faster than the CSA do.

11 hours ago, DB Jones said:

one issue I run into is union cav battalions of 300 with 2* can wipe out entire brigades of mine. In one battle 250 cav charged 3 of my musket brigades of 1800 and routed all 3 of them and took out a cannon before they fell back with 150 left.

Those brigades must have been low condition, with muskets and counter charging cav definitely shouldn't be able to pull that off against fresh units no matter how good their stats.

11 hours ago, DB Jones said:

I'd compare it to how Rome Total Realism 7.0 made Rome Total War 1 an amazing game even 10 to 15 years after release.

This means a lot, I played that mod a ton back in the day

 

[DB Jones]

Panda,

I tend to go 3 brigades of infantry of 1800 per division, with 3 supporting units in each (artillery, ranger/skirmisher/ cav etc)

One playthrough I went 4 brigades per division instead, and would use my 5th division later on to stack heavy artillery and additional cav. I find it hard to balance economy/training with army organization when trying to be efficient early on in MG. I'm about to go into Shiloh with 18 units, I couldn't manage to get the additional AO point spent...but I am going into the battle with 40k in the bank and relatively fresh units. I somehow won the battle of "convoy ambush" without the enemy getting *any* reinforcements. Normally I'd think of this as a bad thing because of less guns obtained...but I weighed it as a logistical/veterancy bonus since I usually take some losses in that battle. Figured I'd risk it, and I did well on the other pre shiloh battle (which is essentially a mini stones river map)

Oh I didn't realize allied troop weapon drop was nerfed. I try to not rely on it honestly, another one of those mechanic abusing/immersion breaking things that I just felt was soft cheating lol. I felt the same about "deploy skirmisher" exploit to stop charging enemy brigades on MG and Legendary modes to cheese the ai/game mechanics. I'm glad your mod addressed that honestly because it just wasn't possible to coordinate such a tactic in real life at that time lol

My army going into shiloh is healthier than my last 2 playthroughs, and with double the cannons. So I think that will help me keep some veterancy in the valley campaigns, in which the winchester battle always bleeds me dry somehow no matter how hard i try to prepare

As far as the cav goes...I prolly just had bad luck in the past. I think a major issue I was having was using *too much* rep, and it impacting morale on my fresher brigades, which makes them very vulnerable to experienced units charging them. I've since rectified that situation with this playthrough by building more shock orientated brigades and focusing on speed/charge rather than accuracy, and letting my artillery do the canister work

Gonna do Shiloh here in a minute, I'll let you know how it goes

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by DB Jones

[DB Jones]

Oh btw I have an independent question - To "shatter" an enemy unit (or even having your own shattered) is there a certain criteria? I used to feel like it was a certain %  (such as a 2000 man unit would break completely at 500 with no other factors considered)  Yet I shattered a unit yesterday with 1100 out of its 1800 men. I've felt the latest patches made units "shatter" more quickly when under extreme pressure (2 or 3 charging units hammering into them at the same time + artillery/rifle support, or extreme cavalry charges when the unit was already doing a heavy route)

Just curious if it was just me or if this is actually part of one of the patches/overhauls from vanilla. Thanks!

[pandakraut]

52 minutes ago, DB Jones said:

I somehow won the battle of "convoy ambush" without the enemy getting *any* reinforcements.

Did you capture all 3 wagons and capture or shatter the two units the AI starts with? If you do this before the reinforcements arrive the battle just ends early. I'd really recommend not doing that as it's a missed opportunity to farm more experience and weapons.

56 minutes ago, DB Jones said:

Oh I didn't realize allied troop weapon drop was nerfed. I try to not rely on it honestly, another one of those mechanic abusing/immersion breaking things that I just felt was soft cheating lol.

You should generally be getting more total weapons back from allied units now then.

I hope Shiloh goes well for you. 1st winchest is definitely a bit of a pain.

[DB Jones]

Panda,

Yeah i shattered them so fast with cavalry charges that the battle ended. I had a feeling this was possible just never achieved it lol.

I'm halfway thru shiloh, so far I've shattered most units prior to the hornets nest part without losing much on my left wing, which means I can use them later to effect as my other guys on the right soak up the brunt of the ironclads/reinforcements

1st winchester is hard for me solely based on the fact that most of the enemies are hidden from you due to low recon and it being 5am when the battle starts. I usually try to hang back a bit and wittle them down then hard flank them thru the town.

Thanks for the tips and encouragement!

[DB Jones]

I pulled it off with a 20% casualty rate on my 1st corps and utterly shattered them on day 1

With only around 3000 castualties, i gained 13,000 arms, something I got ratiod hard on last attempt. Thanks for the 4 points into training advice, it really got me back on track.

On to Gaines Mill I go!

Edited March 18, 2021 by DB Jones

[DB Jones]

One thing I love about this mod is that you *really* need to focus on every brigade/battalion of your 1st  and 2nd corps to an absurd extent to be successful through Antietam and beyond. Everything has to be planned for the future, including taking your 2nd corps into battle way before they are ready during the Valley and stones river campaigns in order to build up veterancy for future hard fights that require your 2nd corps to hold a position (antietam, fredericksburg, 2nd manassas) while your 1st corps is used to do most of the heavy lifting.

While getting through to the first 30 brigades makes you very wary of each units individual promotions, it really enhances the element of specialization and I enjoy that

I make Rifle brigades with all accuracy as my first brigade of every division, 2nd brigade is usually a shock/melee brigade, and 3rd brigade I make what I call a "Swift" brigade, which I take the speed and accuracy buffs to make them good for plugging holes or arriving to a position faster than any enemy can.

I even found creating "horse artillery" with the 1st speed/rotation promotion for howitzers/6lb/napoleons can be really good for my assault corps where I take the 25% speed corps commander perk to really push in an enemy fast before they can react.

With this I will stop posting so much about how much I love this game and all the major overhauls you guys did to make the game so much better when it was already a 10/10 game , but I wanted to say how I love the true to history and gaming devotion you put into this mod.  After 1500 hours in game (with 2/3 being with your mod) all I can say is keep up the good work in all your future endeavors! To another 1000 hours! haha

[pandakraut]

Try changing Antietam into an offensive battle and it gets much easier. Wipe out those union waves before they can reinforce each other and overwhelm you with numbers

[DB Jones]

I honestly find Antietam easier now if I flank the union right with some cav and snipers, and use the terrain to my advantage as they roll towards the sunken road and the western woods. I can usually stack my center with 10+ howitzer/napoleons and do some significant damage to them in the open field. I usually take some significant losses, but I can take out all 100k without losing a single unit over 50%

[JonnyH13]

Updated to 1.27.3d

Remember we have a mod discord.  You can join via this link here.  https://discord.gg/NmHUGvq

[pandakraut]

Updated to version 1.27.3d

Highlights:

- All config files changed to .txt.
- Detached skirmishers now benefit from their parent unit's perks.
- Out of combat resupply rate doubled from supply wagons.
- Battles led now caps at 4 battles resulting in a higher maximum bonus.
- Added battles led details to officer xp bar tooltips.
- Various weapon balance changes.

New Hotkeys
- Selected units can be assigned to a hotkey group using CTRL + number(1-9). Once assigned they can be reselected with the relevant number key.
- New hotkeys to change game speed. Minus sets game speed to 2x. Equals sets game speed to 3x or the value that fastForward is set to in your config file.
- Cavalry and skirmishers can now use the run key to turn skirmish mode on and off.
- Artillery can now be set to fire only canister or only canister and shell. The hotkeys t and y will reduce the unit's range to the relevant distance. The supply wagon's supply infantry and supply artillery icons and buttons have been reused for this functionality.

A list of all changes can be found in the Mod/Rebalance/Change logs folder.

Existing saves are compatible.

[DB Jones]

Are any of the weapon balance changes to weapons significant enough to adjust playstyle or consider?

I love the canister/shell toggle as well as skirmisher one too! I'm excited to hop on now

[pandakraut]

9 minutes ago, DB Jones said:

Are any of the weapon balance changes to weapons significant enough to adjust playstyle or consider?

Most of them are minor though some changes to the revolving rifles and the sharps will probably require some adjustment. No need to start a new campaign though.

The full changelog can always be found at /Mod/Reblalance/Change logs. Here is the section on weapon changes: 
- 6pdr and 12pdr howitzer damage, curve, and ammunition count improved.
- Napoleon and Henry curves improved.
- Sharps rifle is now a skirmisher only sharpshooting weapon.
- M1855 revolving rifle is now an infantry and skirmisher only weapon. Shop availability doubled.
- M1855 revolving carbine is now a skirmisher and cavalry weapon.
- 1863, Joslyn, and Whitworth damage reduced.
- EN1856 curve and reload rate improved. Price reduced.
- JF Brown curve, range, and reload rate improved. Cost increased, ammo cost decreased.
- Whitworth TS reload improved, ammo cost decreased.
- Reduced damage for pistol revolvers.
- DN&C range and reload rate improved. Melee reduced.
- Collateral damage radius standardized.
- Palmetto, colt, and remington pistol and carbine ammo reduced.

[DB Jones]

Damn I just realized the changelog has the full details and already read it, thanks for digging it up for me anyway!