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J & P Rebalance Mod by JonnyH13 and Pandakraut 05/06/2023 1.28.4


JonnyH13

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6 hours ago, pandakraut said:

They ran through an occupied entrenchment? Or an empty one? If they aren't manned then entrenchments have no impact to unit speed.

Occupied.. pushed the garrison unit right out, like they were not there at all. In looking at the garrison stats, I now understand why. Morale in the 30s at best; my units have morale in the 90+ range.

I had a garrison unit pull back with only 45 casualties and was not flanked.

 

6 hours ago, pandakraut said:

Probably ran the battle a dozen times to pull it off

That would be about right...

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15 hours ago, BCH said:

BG Thomas Frances Meagher (pronounced Mar) had the Irish Brigade ( the 63rd, 69th, 88th NY Regiment, 29th 28th Mass, 116th PA) primarily armed with the 1842 .69 cal smoothbores loaded with buck and ball (1 full caliber ball with 4 smaller cal. balls); as casualties escalated through out the war, the Irish Brigade was eventually armed with rifles (or what was left of it; too many close combat frontal assaults).

However, those 1842s loaded with buck and ball were devastating at close range.

Mayre's Heights effectively was the end of the Irish Brigade as a brigade sized unit..

 

 

Hi,

Thanks for the info.

By the time they reached Mayre’s Height. It would not have mattered what they were armed with - poor fellows.

Very interesting to learn. 

Many thanks.

Edited by contact
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3 hours ago, contact said:

By the time they reached Mayre’s Height. It would not have mattered what they were armed with - poor fellows.

within 50 yards of the stone wall.. met by mostly Confederate Irish

of all ironies CSA Gen George Pickett witnessed their attempt and commented upon their bravery; only to later have his division slaughtered at Gettysburg

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15 hours ago, pandakraut said:

From what I recall, my setup for this battle on legendary was something like 5 artillery, 2 infantry, 1 sniper. Sniper goes into the trees directly south of the spawn area on the bottom map edge. This lets you hit the reinforcements on that side and sometimes bugs them all out for a while. Be very careful about the cavalry in the area though, they will kill you if you get spotted.

Artillery all clustered in the center along the line of trees that are behind the trenches. Killed off as much of the artillery as I could before I had to shift to dealing with infantry. AI had 24pdrs which will wreck you if they all setup at once. Hence the sniper plus 3-4 long range artillery units. 

 

The 6,2,1 arrangement came close to working on two attempts; down to seconds in attempting to retake the VP. I have my top brigades set to come in as reinforcements but obviously I need to hold out till they actually arrive with the gunboats.

Snipers racked up 600+ kills each time, only spotted briefly in one battle.

 

I am going to try a 7,1,1 arrangement and add a howitzer battery to the mix to help repel the CSA attempts to take the VP. I will bump the one Inf brigade up to at least 1,800. The sniper brigade is at 400.

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6 minutes ago, BCH said:

I am going to try a 7,1,1 arrangement and add a howitzer battery to the mix to help repel the CSA attempts to take the VP. I will bump the one Inf brigade up to at least 1,800. The sniper brigade is at 400.

In the current version I definitely agree with the philosophy of throw more artillery at the problem. At least one 24pdr is probably necessary to counter charges, 2 would be better. This is actually one of the few cases where I wish I used the reload perks.

Just to reiterate, if you want to drop the timer multipliers to 1.2 for this battle feel free. The current timers are definitely not reasonably balanced for this mission and the only reason I haven't patched them is that trying to get a lot of other changes into the next version has slowed things down.

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13 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

throw more artillery at the problem.

"A battery of field artillery is worth a thousand muskets", General William Tecumseh Sherman

Ultima Ration Regum

I will and have sacrificed entire brigades to save a three star battery; they are that important.

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Report from Suffolk.. the Union prevails

I used the 7,1,1 arrangement for the first in Union forces; I bumped the infantry brigade to 2,000 (this did not seem to greatly effect scaling); the snipers were at 400. I brought in a battery of heavy howitzers which were stationed at the VP (unfortunately lost them right before reinforcements when a Union brigade routed in front of them, but since they were a one star battery, easily replaced).

I did not change the timer modifiers to 1.2, as I wanted to see if the strategy worked.

Totals after Union reinforcements arrive: (before reinforcements, the Union is outnumbered 2+:1; CSA reinforcements arrive very early in the battle)

          Union                   vs.                          CSA

Inf.  19,699                    vs.                      20,707
Cav      500                    vs.                        1,599
Art    3,535/143 guns  vs.                        4,064/171

Losses

Inf.   7,439                     vs.                      16,306
Cav       49                      vs.                        1,269
Art   1,439/39 guns      vs.                        3,033/124
Missing  0                      vs.                            155

Union cavalry came in with the reinforcements, harassed and picked off CSA batteries and captured a supply wagon.

Union snipers had almost 1,000 kills.. mostly CSA artillery

This was a very tough battle until the reinforcements and gunboats arrived.

I should be in decent shape for Chancellorsville.

Edited by BCH
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12 hours ago, pandakraut said:

Good work on sticking with the battle and figuring out a solution.

Thanks..  I am a bit stubborn ;)

in regards to the next major battle...

Chancellorsville is off to a strange start. I am now into the the 2nd day of the battle with no engagement with the enemy?!

I had cavalry brigades on both flanks; which spotted CSA brigades and batteries; but no engagement took place. The sniper unit is spotting the center; and has 'watched' CSA brigades and batteries move back and forth (repositioning in some cases off and on in the defensive positions around the CSA held VPs). Some CSA brigades advanced toward the Union lines, but never came within range (not a single shot has been fired by either side thus far). 

I am now at the start of the 2nd day, and will begin preparing for the CSA advance from the West edge of the map..

As I said.. really strange

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20 minutes ago, BCH said:

Chancellorsville is off to a strange start. I am now into the the 2nd day of the battle with no engagement with the enemy?!

From what I recall if you just sit in your camp you will have little to no contact with the enemy on day 1. If you want to do some damage you'll need to go out and find them.

You would be surprised how many battles you can almost completely avoid combat if you want to. Very useful when just trying to test later phases of battles though.

Edited by pandakraut
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44 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

From what I recall if you just sit in your camp you will have little to no contact with the enemy on day 1. If you want to do some damage you'll need to go out and find them.

In past battles for Chancellorsville, probing the flanks with cavalry usually triggered a CSA assault somewhere; this time no. The CSA AI also seems very cautious with a 2 star sniper brigade on the Union side.

I suspect, this battle is going to turn into a real donnybrook.

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9 hours ago, BCH said:

I suspect, this battle is going to turn into a real donnybrook.

 

That was an understatement...

80,000+ CSA vs. 33,693 Union..

That is 20,000 more for the CSA than intelligence reported..

Not engaging the enemy until late in the 2nd day is a recipe for disaster.. interesting, but a major loss for the Union

Back to a restart of Chancellorsville. (according to Avery Harris of the 143rd PA Inf Regiment, not a very impressive place despite the fancy name).

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@Contact and @BCH

The Irish Brigade was the third in number of casualties in the Union Army with only the 1st Vermont and Iron Brigade suffered more casualties. During the War Regimental losses of Irish Brigade were as follows: 63rd NY Infantry lost 156, 69th NY Infantry lost 259, 88th NY Infantry lost 151, 28th MA lost 250, 116th PA Infantry lost 145 men. Altogether the Irish Brigade lost 961 men to direct killing or dying from wounds. If you add to that the fact that they lost around three thousand men wounded you see that they have lost around four thousand men altogether. That number is above the total number of men serving in the brigade in any given time. 

All but Massachusetts regiment were smaller in size (around 800 men each) so they had around 4,200 men when at top strength. What is interesting about the Irish Brigade is the fact that its commander Meagher was allowed to return to New York in order to replenish the ranks of his depleted Brigade. This wasn't a common practice during the war (especially in the Union) as regiments got disbanded and new regiments raised if they ceased to exist.

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Whew..

The scaling on Chancellorsville at MG level is just plain ugly.

If the intelligence bar at the top of the screen is correct, I started battle with the following numbers:

CSA 61,578 vs Union 11,674; CSA guns 133 vs Union guns 116

shortly before the start of the 2nd day the intelligence bar showed:

41,027/61,578 for CSA; I am assuming this reflects almost 20,000 lost to the CSA; CSA guns show 77/133.

8,611/11,674 for Union 84/116 guns.

Start of the 2nd day:

CSA 36,292/51,833; 192/245 guns
Union 31,749/34,943; 188/214

Significant events in the battle:

Managed to draw CSA brigades into an early firefight; the Union line was backed by batteries, and the Confederates fared poorly. Lee's command unit took quite a few casualties (if I read my battery kills at the time correctly) trying to rally a skirmisher unit that was drawn into the firefight.

Captured 2 CSA supply wagons early in the battle with 1 Union Cav. almost simultaneously; CSA skirmishers trying to retake the wagons ran into concentrated battery fire.

Destroyed a large CSA battery (500+ manpower) with Union cavalry; reduced a similarly sized CSA battery by half with the same cavalry brigade.

Destroyed at least two CSA batteries with Union 20pdr Parrotts (2 batteries)

Unfortunate event for the Union:

Case of tunnel vision; I did not notice Union reinforcements come in (might have got up to have another cup of coffee); they blundered into CSA brigades in the woods on the Union left flank. I was able to recover somewhat, but eventually lost 2 of 3 batteries. I believe I have a save prior to the reinforcements, and will replay from that point.

 

Edited by BCH
spelling; add'l text.
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Day 2 at Chancellorsville

CSA forces are arriving piecemeal from the West; mostly due to Union cavalry and deeply deployed Union skirmishers positioned far West of the Union defensive line. Several Rebel batteries have been completely destroyed and others heavily damaged as they try to get into position outside of the Chancellorville farms complex. CSA brigades that would have normally been in the direct attack on the farm complex have been delayed trying to support their batteries.

The Union has been repulsing what are often singular brigade attacks against the line; CSA casualties are high.

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The un-coordinated Rebel attacks against Union forces holding Chancellorsville continued throughout the day. One Rebel attack against the Union right flank was made by a group of fresh CSA brigades late in the day driving back several Union brigades north of Chancellorsville. This attack faltered when the Rebels were flanked by Union snipers and a skirmisher unit armed with long range rifles.  With the Union forces aligned in a tight U formation around the farm complex, Union batteries could quickly change firing direction without leaving their current position to deal with Rebel threats. This U shaped formation also allowed otherwise unengaged Union brigades to go to the support of either flank.

As darkness began to overtake the battle fields, CSA units were less and less inclined to continue attacks.

Note:

When the Finish button came up (I just let the time run out), the intelligence bar showed the following for the start of phase 3:

Union 16,026/26,764  guns 162/194 vs. CSA 9,767/22,949 guns 93/133

The next phase of the battle is more of the above; with several close calls getting the Union forces back into their defensive U shaped formation. Nothing like having a strong position evaporate when the game AI redistributes your forces to start another phase...

However, eventually there are no CSA units visible on the field. I hit the Finish button at 12:33 on the overall timer. The intelligence bar showed the following:

Union 14,268/25,964 guns 158/194 vs CSA 656/1,878 guns 18/42

Three Union Corps are moving into line formation backed by their respective batteries; with Chancellorsville secured, the Union will press on toward their original objectives.

Intelligence bar shows the following for start of the last phase:

Union 17,720/29,404 guns 137/166 vs CSA 3,515/7,053 guns 19/29

 

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3 minutes ago, BCH said:

The next phase of the battle is more of the above; with several close calls getting the Union forces back into their defensive U shaped formation. Nothing like having a strong position evaporate when the game AI redistributes your forces to start another phase...

For the Union version of the battle, the reset can almost be safely disabled. But the issue is that the map narrows, so if you are to spread out you'll lose access to those units. Unfortunately there just isn't really moddable solution to the phase resets that doesn't just impose additional arbitrary requirements.

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44 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

For the Union version of the battle, the reset can almost be safely disabled. But the issue is that the map narrows, so if you are to spread out you'll lose access to those units. Unfortunately there just isn't really moddable solution to the phase resets that doesn't just impose additional arbitrary requirements.

Once one learns that it happens, it can be dealt with..

My solution:

1. Phase starts - hit Pause
2. Save game - name/label the save
3. While paused - determine which units are the most vulnerable
4. One at a time, select units to move and determine destination (see below)
5. Determine which units will need "protection" en-route (think slow moving supply wagons), and assign units to provide same.
6. Re-start game on the slowest speed possible; be prepared to hit pause.

Eventually, one can get almost all units back into the desired defensive position with minimal or no losses. 

Yes, it is a lot of micromanagement; but I have found trying to move groups en masse is problematic when the enemy is close.

Besides.. I've played Avalon Hills Gettysburg (next to the last version), and the full compliment of AH's Squad Leader; lots of pieces to move.. one at a time :)

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Initial reports in from Chancellorsville..

Heavy casualties; entire Corps nearly destroyed, Union forces were greatly outnumbered. Three entire Union Corps were almost entirely surrounded by Rebel forces; it is said that Union guns grew so hot, that they would fire when the number 3 man on the gun uncovered the touch hole. Bobby Lee left the field with more than his nose bloodied.

Field report totals, initial estimates:

Union                                      vs                       CSA
Inf         31,175                      vs                        84,892
Cav          2,158                      vs                         5,273
Art           5,637/228 guns    vs                         8,124/332

Losses

Inf          14,014                      vs                       60,085
Cav           1,229                      vs                         2,853
Art             1,488/52 guns     vs                          5,720/229
Missing            0                     vs                            729

Note/tip:

If you do not want to replay the entire last phase of Chancellorsville; save before the last timer counts down on the final objectives. (I saved with 3 seconds to go). The Salem Church battle starts immediately after the win at Chancellorsville and it is recommended that you hit pause when it starts and save it.

On to Salem Church.. hope Sedgwick is better than in the past...

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Hello all,

I'm bought the game a couple of days ago and I just discovered that it's a little bit modable 😉 Thanks to you guys. I've got a couple of questions that I'm going to ask here, forgive me if not all questions belong exactly in this topic.

1) is this mod compatible with the UI and AI customizations mod? Or is the one integrated in the other?

2) I've started the game with a Union campaign as Brigade General (no bonuses or penalties). I've just completed Gaines's Mill and found it ridiculously easy so far, having won fairly easily every battle a long the way thus far, inflicting enormous damage on the CSA (kill ratio's are far too high when compared to the historical battles). Will it get more difficult in the later campaign by itself or do I need to restart on Major General difficulty, though I resent the idea of unfair bonuses and penalties :D Is a CSA campaign more difficult compared to a Union campaign? Lastly for this point, why I do dare ask it here: will this mod make things harder for the player? Does it make the general-AI more capable?

3) I've understood that the mod is more focused on a CSA-campaign play-through as it stands so far?

Thank you guys again for taking the time to make a mod to this very interesting game 🙂

Edited by Lucasiewicz
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11 hours ago, pandakraut said:

Spoiler: Sedgwick's men are sadly untrained rabble.

I always assumed they were draftees that did not have the wherewithal to purchase a replacement...

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5 hours ago, Lucasiewicz said:

2) I've started the game with a Union campaign as Brigade General (no bonuses or penalties). I've just completed Gaines's Mill and found it ridiculously easy so far, having won fairly easily every battle a long the way thus far, inflicting enormous damage on the CSA (kill ratio's are far too high when compared to the historical battles). Will it get more difficult in the later campaign by itself or do I need to restart on Major General difficulty, though I resent the idea of unfair bonuses and penalties :D Is a CSA campaign more difficult compared to a Union campaign? Lastly for this point, why I do dare ask it here: will this mod make things harder for the player? Does it make the general-AI more capable?

I have found the MG level with the mod to be challenging as the Union; doable but with some tough battles that do not easily allow recovery from a mistake.

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