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J & P Rebalance Mod by JonnyH13 and Pandakraut 1/12/19 Hotfix

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43 minutes ago, BCH said:

On to Parker's Crossroads..

Which I remember to be a royal pain.

Like most of the hold the VP while being surrounded missions, it's better to choose an area off to the side to defend. I prefer the woods to the east, but I've also seen NW and SW work.

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7 hours ago, pandakraut said:

Like most of the hold the VP while being surrounded missions, it's better to choose an area off to the side to defend. I prefer the woods to the east, but I've also seen NW and SW work.

I was able to pull off a win by holding in the wooded area which the start rectangle covers. It required retaking the VP at the end. The casualties were much higher than I would have liked; the only reason I am in good shape for Stone's River is the overwhelming Union victory at Fredericksburg.

The eastern woods is a better choice to hold because it is closer to the Union reinforcement entry point. I will be trying that in the near future.

One of my biggest problems and a direct contribution to higher casualties was being out-spotted (and perhaps out-ranged) by CSA skirmishers. To counter that problem, I will bring one Union skirmisher brigade (probably with J.F.Brown rifles) in with the initial Union deployment. A brief test this morning showed that most CSA skirmishers will be spotted if the Union has at least one skirmisher brigade.

Thoughts on the Parker Crossroads map itself:

I believe it was originally designed to encourage the use of detached skirmishers for the Union win. From a tactical stand point, it makes sense to send out skirmishers or as they were called pickets to determine what is in front of your lines. This is no longer an option with the mod; and with only 12 brigades allowed for the Union, one can not have a one to one ratio of skirmishers to Union Inf. brigades and bring in enough artillery. IMO.

The map plays for the Union with an initial deployment of 8 brigades, with 4 brigades in reinforcement. In my next play through, I will bring a skirmisher brigade armed with J.F.Browns (I will bump them up from 300 to 400), 3 Inf brigades, one 3 star, two 2 star, armed with 1863 and 1861 respectively; and 4 batteries. The reserves will include 1 skirmisher brigade; the Iron Brigade armed with '63s, another Inf. brigade armed with '61s; and a battery (most likely the 20pdr Parrotts for their range).

The earthworks are of course deathtraps..

Too bad, in my opinion; I believe they should be somewhat more functional. The flanks and rear should be vulnerable, with the rear providing almost no defense. The defensive bonus of the front should be improved a bit; but I do not know if the mechanics support anything like that.

 

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I also experimented with bringing Recon up to 4 points after Frederickstburg; the 2 Career points only took a skirmishers spotting from 1,000 to 1,050. The 2 career points are better spent elsewhere in my opinion.

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55 minutes ago, BCH said:

I also experimented with bringing Recon up to 4 points after Frederickstburg; the 2 Career points only took a skirmishers spotting from 1,000 to 1,050. The 2 career points are better spent elsewhere in my opinion.

It should be 50 per point currently. Not sure if it will help in this specific battle to have the extra points, but the effects can really add up at higher levels of recon.

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11 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

It should be 50 per point currently. Not sure if it will help in this specific battle to have the extra points, but the effects can really add up at higher levels of recon.

I checked before and after.. skirmisher units at Fredricksburg had 1000. with bringing Recon from 2 to 4, the same skirmisher unit was only at 1,050.

I will double check...

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58 minutes ago, BCH said:

I checked before and after.. skirmisher units at Fredricksburg had 1000. with bringing Recon from 2 to 4, the same skirmisher unit was only at 1,050.

I will double check...

Let me know what you find, the version I'm running is showing it as 50 per but it wouldn't be the first time that I'm running some odd amalgamation of versions.

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2 hours ago, pandakraut said:

Let me know what you find, the version I'm running is showing it as 50 per but it wouldn't be the first time that I'm running some odd amalgamation of versions.

Going cross-eyed looking at all the figures.. definitely showing what you stated.. skirmisher units at Fredericksburg were at 950 during the battle, went to 1050 after Recon was increased to 4.

I am now not sure if I ever saw a skirmisher unit at 1000.. will a 3 in Recon increase anything with the Mod? In game notes show that it must go to 4 for any effect

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6 minutes ago, BCH said:

Going cross-eyed looking at all the figures.. definitely showing what you stated.. skirmisher units at Fredericksburg were at 950 during the battle, went to 1050 after Recon was increased to 4.

I am now not sure if I ever saw a skirmisher unit at 1000.. will a 3 in Recon increase anything with the Mod? In game notes show that it must go to 4 for any effect

Tooltips should show that increasing it to 3 points grants an extra 50 recon. This only works for the 'add point' buttons. I can't add more information to the summary of what your current points do.

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Second play through for the Parker's Crossroads..

My revised Order of Battle worked well. I drove the CSA units out of eastern woods. I kept my forces in the woods edge so that they all had the 100% woods defensive bonus. I just whittled down the CSA brigades that kept pushing into the open. They would advance on any Union brigade that pulled back slightly; and were then cut to pieces; after each encounter, I would move the Union brigade back into the line proper.

Out numbered over 3:1, but prevailed.

Union                        vs.                   CSA
Inf 6,300                    -                     20,831
Cav       0                   -                        1,552
Art. 1,233/52 guns -                            533/22 guns

Losses

Inf 1,788                     -                    12,805
Cav       0                    -                          999
Art   91/4 guns         -                          145/6 guns

CSA AI for some reason decided my battery of 6 pdrs was vulnerable to cavalry attacks; must not have noticed it was a 2 star battery. Canister at close range is bad for cavalry....

I often had the game speed down as slow as possible and hit pause often to redirect battery fire.

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2 hours ago, pandakraut said:

Tooltips should show that increasing it to 3 points grants an extra 50 recon. This only works for the 'add point' buttons. I can't add more information to the summary of what your current points do.

I have a bunch of saves.. I will check the tooltips for an increase to 3.

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After action reports for Gains Mills. At MG level

Union vs CSA. (Battle results screen)

Union  40006 Infantry                          CSA  58702 infantry

             790 cavalry                                          0 cavalry

              43 guns                                                82 guns

CASUALTIES AND LOSSES

11667 infantry                                                  25130

0(17)                                                                   (290) 11 guns

237 cavalry                                                        0 cavalry

                                                                             79 missing

The Union suffered only 3 Officers wounded. 6 were promoted.

The Union main Corps, under Grant, consisted of 32400 infantry, 0 cavalry and 28 guns.              

I took  command of the smaller Corps of 7606 infantry, 790 cavalry and 16 guns.

Grant placed his initial troops at the defensive line. With 2 Brigades on the far left to be used to flank the Rebs. The same tactic being used on the right.

The Rebs were allowed to attack the defensive line. Heavy casualties were inflicted on the large Reb Brigades numbering 2950.

Grant did attack the Rebs left flank, with the 2 Brigades placed to do so. Slowing down the Rebs attack.

Once the remainder of Grant’s Corps arrived. Two Brigades were sent to cover McGee Hill.

Not until the second phase were the 2 Union Brigades placed on the Rebs far left flank brought into the action to harass/attack the Rebs right flank. They numbered 1800 men and 1700. Armed only with Rebored Farmers. They proved to be very inexpensive but effective in breaking up the the Rebs attacking the defensive line. 

Once A P Hill appeared on the Union right flank. One of Grants flanking Brigades was sent to help delay their advance. Looking to do so until my own Corps arrived.

Grants delaying action worked well. My Corps arrived and McGee Hill was never in danger. Indeed, I sent some of my Brigades to help Grant.

In the centre a few of Grants Brigades were routed but reserves were able retake the line. With the routed Brigades returning to help. Plus the arrival of my Brigades.

The Rebs continue to attack. Determined to break Grants line. But his troops were also determined to hold.

Finally, the day came to a close with Victory for the Union. Despite the large size of the Rebs Brigades and most being 3 stars. Only 1 Union Brigade was a 2 star !

Can the CSA afford to loose so many veterans in this manner !

The Union intelligence service has advised the CSA will be able to still field 48-53k in the next engagement. Though this will be less 10% due to recent defeats.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by contact
Error
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Re Gains Mills

I believe  a special mention should be made to the two newly raised Brigades armed only with Farmers.

They successfully attacked the Rebs right flank. Stopping two 3 star Brigades numbering almost 6000 men from assaulting the Union line.

 

 

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BCH seems like you started to get the hang of it... Try to minimize losses in major battles as much as you can... I won Antietam as the Union with around 3,500 casualties altogether on my last MG play-through... Both Stones River and Chancellorsville will be pretty easy and straight forward battles that will be great victories if you keep your loses minimal... 

Also, a word of advice... Invest in sniper unit or two really early on (works for both sides). When you get those 150 snipers equipped with scoped j&f browns or whitworths and get them to 3 stars.... oh boy, oh boy... it will be fun

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16 hours ago, Minas Moth said:

When you get those 150 snipers equipped with scoped j&f browns or whitworths and get them to 3 stars.... oh boy, oh boy... it will be fun

Sure is.. have one unit equipped with JFBrowns.. they are hidden most of the time.. I am in the endgame of Stones River.. that unit has accounted for over 1,000 kills now.. and I believe no losses.

 

Should be a victory.. need to manage the end game carefully to keep casualties down.. CSA losses are well over 50%; at least it seems to be correct.

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From our battlefield correspondent with the Union Army at Stones River:

 

"I'se gets crankie when m'breakfast is interrupted."  as told to our correspondent by Pvt. Leroy Jenkins. Union III Corp, 4th Div., 2nd Brigade; when asked what prompted their company of skirmishers to charge a Rebel cavalry brigade about to overtake a Union battery. The division commander reports the battery was saved and the enemy cavalry routed with great loss to their brigade.

Reports are sketchy at the moment; apparently during breakfast elements of the under strength Union III Corp were attacked on the southern most part of the Union line paralleling Stones River. III Corp conducted a fighting withdrawal and stretched out the Rebel attackers.

Incoming Union reinforcement set up defensive positions on the wooded hills just south of the Nashville Pike; eventually forming a line in the shape of a backwards drawn S, as the withdrawn III Corp joined the reinforcements and constituted the right flank. Union cavalry and skirmishers harassed the CSA left flank, and managed to disrupt CSA attacks to the Union right and right middle. Veteran Union batteries decimated attacking Rebel brigades and long range Union batteries pounded CSA batteries as they came into range.

CSA attacks began to fizzle out, allowing all Union brigades to withdraw to entrenchments prepared by the Union II Corp on the high ground of the Nashville Pike. Union cavalry were able to force Hardee to retire (and eventually Hardee was captured). The lack of a Corp commander is thought to played a role in the later ineffectual attacks by the Rebels.

CSA attacks began on the Union right flank by greatly reduced CSA brigades; these were quickly dealt with and Union brigades began to swing their right flank to face the East. Fresh Union brigades and batteries were re-positioned to repulse the expected CSA attack from that direction. Eventually, attacking Rebel brigades were entering a U-shaped killing zone.

Union casualties were comparatively low; the rebel losses will impact their ability to conduct further operations around Nashville.

 

Notes:

Going into the last phase of this battle, intelligence showed the following information

Union

Soldiers 25,226/31,650
Guns           143/156

CSA

Soldiers 15,898/22,003
Guns              32/42

Reasonably optimistic for a Union win, unless I did some really foolish.

Final results:

Start

Union                                  vs                    CSA
Inf.             28,500             vs                    56,269
Cav.             2,150              vs                      3,041
Guns   184(4,526)             vs              172(4,138)

Losses

Inf.          8,002                   vs                    56,269
Cav            513                   vs                       2,087
Guns   36(927)                   vs              132(3,257)
Missing         0                    vs                         546


 

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Suffolk is ridiculous at MG level...

Entrenchments should have a better defensive value than woods.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, BCH said:

Suffolk is ridiculous at MG level...

Entrenchments should have a better defensive value than woods.

The fortifications at Suffolk are pretty good stat wise. 100% cover and 55/55/65 is only a step or two down from the best fortifications in the game. The fortification damage penalty for infantry has also been removed. The issue is that they spread units out and expose them to fire from additional brigades. On top of that the Suffolk fortifications are not positions very well and some of them on the north side of the map can be flanked very easily.

The next version will be fixing the damage reductions that woods(and other terrain) are supposed to be applying which should improve fortifications a bit as well.

The timer increase for Suffolk also needs to be reduced a bit. On legendary at least I had to basically wipe out the enemy forces before my reinforcements arrived to win the battle.

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BCH.

Your ahead of me !

Currently engaging Rebs at Malvern Hill.

So far have noticed the Rebs Brigades are still mostly 3 stars. But no longer 2950 strong. Now to to 2500 max.

Starting to show this war of attrition is reducing the numbers of veterans the CSA can field.

Hope to have details of the out come in the next couple of days.

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On 5/23/2019 at 4:04 AM, BCH said:

Sure is.. have one unit equipped with JFBrowns.. they are hidden most of the time.. I am in the endgame of Stones River.. that unit has accounted for over 1,000 kills now.. and I believe no losses.

 

Should be a victory.. need to manage the end game carefully to keep casualties down.. CSA losses are well over 50%; at least it seems to be correct.

I’m sure they are doing the job.

But I’m still fielding troops armed with rebored Farmers. Nice and cheap ! 😏

Weapon damage of 18. 

Rebs cannot just ignore them. They are taking casualties instead of my better quality troops.

If they keep up the good work. May rearm them with better weapons.

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7 hours ago, pandakraut said:

The issue is that they spread units out and expose them to fire from additional brigades.

Yep...

Union victory, but the cost was too high.. I will have to play back in the woods away from the entrenchments on the one side at least.

Good holiday to everyone (Memorial Day in the US).

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On 5/24/2019 at 8:26 AM, contact said:

But I’m still fielding troops armed with rebored Farmers. Nice and cheap ! 😏

BG Thomas Frances Meagher (pronounced Mar) had the Irish Brigade ( the 63rd, 69th, 88th NY Regiment, 29th 28th Mass, 116th PA) primarily armed with the 1842 .69 cal smoothbores loaded with buck and ball (1 full caliber ball with 4 smaller cal. balls); as casualties escalated through out the war, the Irish Brigade was eventually armed with rifles (or what was left of it; too many close combat frontal assaults).

However, those 1842s loaded with buck and ball were devastating at close range.

Mayre's Heights effectively was the end of the Irish Brigade as a brigade sized unit..

 

 

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Not seeing Suffolk as a viable Union win without severe Union casualties. Just watched a CSA brigade run unimpeded through entrenchments.. never slowed up at all. That should be an obstacle to movement in both directions.

The depot Union brigades might have 1863s but the brigades are worthless; they break even in close proximity to two Major Generals. The numbers may show the Union at a 2:1 disadvantage, but with depot brigades being ineffective, the odds against the Union are more on the order of 4:1 before reinforcements arrive.

Tried pulling back the center, leaving the flanks intact; that worked until shear numbers overwhelmed the Union.. especially a 2:1 artillery advantage that the CSA has in the beginning.

Overloaded the Union right flank; worked well enough, but ditto from above.

Overloaded the left flank; this worked slightly better; but eventually shear numbers overwhelm the Union.

It takes the entire time to run down before reinforcements arrive. They are enough to hold the VP but the down side is that the Union will have a Corp greatly reduced in strength before Chancellorsville.

Just a note: Historically, the Union held a very strong defensive position, Longstreet never took Suffolk.

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1 hour ago, BCH said:

Not seeing Suffolk as a viable Union win without severe Union casualties. Just watched a CSA brigade run unimpeded through entrenchments.. never slowed up at all. That should be an obstacle to movement in both directions.

They ran through an occupied entrenchment? Or an empty one? If they aren't manned then entrenchments have no impact to unit speed.

1 hour ago, BCH said:

It takes the entire time to run down before reinforcements arrive. They are enough to hold the VP but the down side is that the Union will have a Corp greatly reduced in strength before Chancellorsville.

You're holding the VP though? As long as you manage that the reinforcements should allow you to crush the remaining CSA units.

 

From what I recall, my setup for this battle on legendary was something like 5 artillery, 2 infantry, 1 sniper. Sniper goes into the trees directly south of the spawn area on the bottom map edge. This lets you hit the reinforcements on that side and sometimes bugs them all out for a while. Be very careful about the cavalry in the area though, they will kill you if you get spotted.

Artillery all clustered in the center along the line of trees that are behind the trenches. Killed off as much of the artillery as I could before I had to shift to dealing with infantry. AI had 24pdrs which will wreck you if they all setup at once. Hence the sniper plus 3-4 long range artillery units.

I did not use the fortifications at all. Had to avoid melee whenever possible, and try to focus fire artillery to break down big units and prevent them from charging. Very little was left alive by the time the reinforcements arrived. Probably ran the battle a dozen times to pull it off on legendary, but it should be less of an issue on MG. 

 

While the battle can be won, I do think it is a bit excessive. The timer on that battle is slated to get a change in the next patch. If you want to temporarily change your ConfigFile.csv to change the two variables below to use 1.2 that should help with getting reinforcements before your initial units get beat up to much.

timerMandatoryMultiplier, 1.2
timerRecommendedMultiplier, 1.2

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