mod J & P Rebalance Mod by JonnyH13 and Pandakraut 05/06/2023 1.28.4

[pandakraut]

Compiled list of all current mod changes added to second post at the top of the thread.

[poopflingr1]

Just started a CSA game to test this mod vs my  many vanilla campaigns.

Why do all of my fellow CSA units only have percussion muskets vs the union who have proper rifles?

I understand the CSA wasn't swimming in guns, but every single unit so far having the most basic firearm? My corp has to do all the fighting and my reinforcements are useless because they have to advance so much closer to the enemy in order to get a shot off. And all the CSA artillery is 6lb smooth-bores.

I'm currently punishing them at the first bull run, but only because of my corp. my allies are totally useless with them averaging 100 kills and 400+ losses.

I like that battles are much more drawn out and slower, but I there are some downsides I am seeing. Rifles were incredibly accurate, and I find it weird that 1700 men should to shoulder can only tag 30-50 men at point blank range while being charged. Cannons only shoot less than twice as far as a rifle bearing infantry regiment, so my ordinance guns are half as effective as in vanilla, and even up close they aren't doing nearly as much work, what with the insane delay between reloads and firing. Infantry can clear my entire field of fire in the time I can get a shot off and bring the battery back up.

 

Maybe the mod didn't install right?

Edited September 1, 2018 by poopflingr1
typo

[pandakraut]

30 minutes ago, poopflingr1 said:

Just started a CSA game to test this mod vs my  many vanilla campaigns.

Why do all of my fellow CSA units only have percussion muskets vs the union who have proper rifles?

I understand the CSA wasn't swimming in guns, but every single unit so far having the most basic firearm? My corp has to do all the fighting and my reinforcements are useless because they have to advance so much closer to the enemy in order to get a shot off. And all the CSA artillery is 6lb smooth-bores.

I'm currently punishing them at the first bull run, but only because of my corp. my allies are totally useless with them averaging 100 kills and 400+ losses.

I like that battles are much more drawn out and slower, but I there are some downsides I am seeing. Rifles were incredibly accurate, and I find it weird that 1700 men should to shoulder can only tag 30-50 men at point blank range while being charged. Cannons only shoot less than twice as far as a rifle bearing infantry regiment, so my ordinance guns are half as effective as in vanilla, and even up close they aren't doing nearly as much work, what with the insane delay between reloads and firing. Infantry can clear my entire field of fire in the time I can get a shot off and bring the battery back up.

 

Maybe the mod didn't install right?

Easiest way to check the install is looking at the weapon and perk tooltips. If you're seeing additional values and different numbers from the base game they did install.

What difficulty are you playing on?

6pdrs are actually quite decent in the mod. Muskets have to be used a bit differently than rifles but have very good melee values and can do a ton of damage if you get up close. Infantry damage was reduced significantly from the base game. It will go back up as you get more experienced units as perks contain a lot more power in the mod.

[JonnyH13]

38 minutes ago, poopflingr1 said:

Just started a CSA game to test this mod vs my  many vanilla campaigns.

Why do all of my fellow CSA units only have percussion muskets vs the union who have proper rifles?

I understand the CSA wasn't swimming in guns, but every single unit so far having the most basic firearm? My corp has to do all the fighting and my reinforcements are useless because they have to advance so much closer to the enemy in order to get a shot off. And all the CSA artillery is 6lb smooth-bores.

I'm currently punishing them at the first bull run, but only because of my corp. my allies are totally useless with them averaging 100 kills and 400+ losses.

I like that battles are much more drawn out and slower, but I there are some downsides I am seeing. Rifles were incredibly accurate, and I find it weird that 1700 men should to shoulder can only tag 30-50 men at point blank range while being charged. Cannons only shoot less than twice as far as a rifle bearing infantry regiment, so my ordinance guns are half as effective as in vanilla, and even up close they aren't doing nearly as much work, what with the insane delay between reloads and firing. Infantry can clear my entire field of fire in the time I can get a shot off and bring the battery back up.

 

Maybe the mod didn't install right?

Perks are a key focus of this mod (at least until the unit stat system is reworked) and offer strong bonuses once your troops become more experienced.  Rookies are much less reliable and tend to do poorly compared with veterans.

The battles are not fully optimized for the mod as well as Allied troops do not really adjust in regards to stats and weapons.  

[BCH]

7 hours ago, pandakraut said:

If you have an nvidia graphics card you can use shadowplay. Otherwise you'd need to setup OBS, fraps, or something like that.

 I do indeed have nvidia...

[DrunkVision]

I was somewhat irritated that you need to sign up to this site to be able to download the mod.. great work, though.

[BCH]

Just finished Bull Run with ver. 1.23.

 

Very dicey (not in a bad way);  required me to keep refusing the line on both flanks.

The first instance was with Sherman, Keyes, and the Ohio & New York group. The Stone Bridge fell quickly, resulting in Sherman and company in 'control' (sort of) of the ridge west of Stone Bridge. I Corp, with the normal reinforcements was still on Matthew's Hill pushing the remnants of Beauregards divison back to Henry's Hill.  This left a gap between Sherman/Keyes, etc. and I Corp.  Jackson's division choose to attack Sherman et al in force; fortunately the Confederate brigades had to cross a stream to attack and they did so without their artillery support. (Beauregard's batteries were destroyed on Matthew's Hill; Jackson' batteries were on the reverse slope of Henry's Hill and could not support Jackson's initial counter-attack). Jackson's  division attacked the center and both flanks; they had superior numbers until two of I Corp's brigades quick-marched to support Sherman's right flank.

Once I Corp reaches the stream before starting up Henry's Hill, Jackson's division is completely flanked and forced to withdraw to the top of Henry's Hill while under enfilade fire from I Corp.  Most of Jackson's brigades withdraw to the reverse slope of Henry's Hill. I Corp takes Henry's Hill and Sherman et al advances to the southeast woods. Jackson's brigades now try to flank the Union line, time after time; each time the line was refused in the classic maneuver of the era. Eventually, the brigade on the Union right was able to 'swing like a gate' and deliver fire to the rear of  any CSA brigade on that flank.

Johnston's division could not retake the hill; Union artillery was arranged in an L shape and decimated Johnston's brigades each time they came close to the VP.

The Confederates suffered almost 70% casualties to their infantry.

CSA Losses vs. Union losses

Inf. 16,960 vs 6,345
Guns 66 vs 8
Cav. 693 vs 358
Missing 952 vs 0

Despite the final results, it was not an easy battle. It required constant micro-management of units .

It was fun.. and of course that is the whole point.

 

[madmatg]

@BCH what difficulty level are you playing on? I have not been able to take the stone bridge on any of my tries and usually go up to the ford

[BCH]

32 minutes ago, madmatg said:

@BCH what difficulty level are you playing on? I have not been able to take the stone bridge on any of my tries and usually go up to the ford

MG level

For some reason the Stone Bridge was un-defended. After I had pushed the ford, I sent a NY brigade and Sherman's brigade to see what was happening at the Stone Bridge.. they just waltzed across it.

AI seemed to be concentrating on the Union left flank at Matthews Hill and the right flank of Keyes who came across the ford.

[madmatg]

Hmm interesting

[BCH]

7 hours ago, madmatg said:

Hmm interesting

I am not sure what triggered the AI tactics; unusual to say the least.

I had 4 brigades and two batteries assigned to me to start Bull Run. I sent 3 of the brigades and 1 battery to cover the ford proper. I sent the remaining brigade and battery to the stream fork adjacent the ford. CSA units at that time seemed to be the regular brigade at the ford and a skirmisher unit on the ridge between the Stone Bridge and the ford. No CSA batteries observed.

Clay's Dragoons were west of the ford, but did not engage. I sent the Union Scouts to a far north ford to allow them to recon between Matthew's Hill and the ford. Perhaps when they were initially spotted, that drew CSA units away from the Stone Bridge. CSA batteries that normally gravitate to the Stone Bridge were found west of the ford and south of Matthew's Hill. AI seems to have judged the Stone Bridge as not needing defending.

The bulk of Jackson's brigades, as I noted in the earlier post, focused on Sherman and Keyes. Sherman had come across the Stone Bridge with an initial Union brigade. Fortunately, the Union held the high ground at this point.

 

[snake9]

Love the mod! thanks.

 

Since 1.23 I cannot not turn variance mod off.  I have it listed as false in the config like before but it will not turn off now.  It doesn't split my army but it still splits the ai army.  Any help?

[BCH]

Shiloh  on ModV 1.23

This was a tough battle; I was surprised to win it. (the Victory screen does not really tell the story, more on the entire battle later)

To see how 1.23 worked, I brought in I Corp with the best division to Shiloh Church. They were able to hold the Church throughout the phases up to an including the Landing part I. Although I Corp took about 35-40 % casualties, the Confederate left flank pretty much destroyed themselves trying to take the Church and were never a threat at the Landing.

First in from I Corp were 5 brigades armed with Lorenz, 61 Springfields, and 55's accompany by three batteries, one 10 gun battery of Horse Artillery, one 12 gun battery  of Napoleons, one 10 gun battery of 10pdrs. (also included one cavalry brigade)

Taking a tip from Pandakraut's video of Shiloh; I withheld fire from the batteries until the last possible minute. Two Confederate brigades took  at least two rounds of canister in addition to the volleys from two Union brigades; the Confederates withdrew.

I sent the Union Cavalry to the far right flank of the Union line (west edge of the map); from there, the cavalry brigade was able to harass CSA units attempting to move on the Union right. Unfortunately, I eventually lost the Union cavalry to CSA cavalry three times larger; but by then CSA batteries trying to support the attack on Shiloh Church were greatly reduced. This Union cavalry also captured three supply wagons that were never recovered by the Confederates.

There did not seem to be much difference in the total CSA manpower attacking at Shiloh Church in regard to brigade size; veterancy seemed less, in that I did not spot a single 3* brigade in the beginning (plenty of 2* brigades). Eventually, the CSA units had a large numerical advantage on the Union left flank. This required me to pull the two Union brigades on that flank back to Shiloh Church forming an L shaped line. (top of the L ran west to each, bottom of the L ran south to north) A CSA brigade of around 2,200 charged the left flank; it was stopped, and then routed by the three Union batteries. Much to my annoyance it routed through my lines; I lucked out in that it routed right into the swamp area.

More CSA brigades began to press the East side of Shiloh Church (plus I had a large CSA brigade now in the rear of the Union line). Union reinforcements arrived just in time bringing Page's Horse Artillery (more later on Page). I quick marched the Union reinforcements to Shiloh Church area; two were assigned to watch the swamp, the third brigade provided enfilade fire from north of the L. This was subsequently backed up by Page's battery.

Page's battery of Horse Artillery was singularly unique from my point of view in playing this game; they racked up 2,600+ kills with no losses of their own.

The Confederate forces continue to attack Shiloh Church, and are thrown back every time.

 

Phase II, the Fields

I simply fight a delaying action with skirmishers, 1 cavalry unit , three brigades, and three batteries; the skirmishers (3 or 4) plus the cavalry were sent south to harass and delay. Two brigades and two batteries defended the western most VP, the other VP was basically not defended, the brigade and a battery of napoleons on that side were pulled back to the north edge.

The Confederates never quite get a fully coordinated attack going; in part I believe to trying to deal with the skirmishers and cavalry. (This did require quite a lot of mico-management to keep those Union units alive as long as possible.) I also note that a 4.500+ CSA brigade is moving north, along with a 3,000+ brigade (I believe these are all part of Bragg's Divsion). I keep sniping CSA batteries with skirmishers and occasionally with the Union cavalry. CSA brigades oblige by rear-marching to the south to challenge those threats.

 Phase II, the Hornet's Nest

Since I had decent Union reinforcements come in for the start of the Hornet's Nest; I decide to try and hold it as long as possible.  Since I Corp at Shiloh Church is holding its own and keeping quite a few CSA units occupied, I elect to not move them north. I do withdraw the Union brigades and batteries around the fields (mostly II Corp units).

I know that the Union is greatly out-numbered at this point, but the CSA units are scattered throughout the map.

Phase III, defend the Landing

I decide not to withdraw to the Landing defenses; I am in a good defensive line and supported by batteries plus the gunboats (which now have decent guns). I did pull two of the reinforcing brigades at Shiloh Church along with Page's Battery and send them to Union right flank; along the way they rout and almost destroy a large CSA battery. Eventually, I send one more battery of Horse from Shiloh Church along with all remaining brigades except I Corp's 1st Division (3 brigades). I keep my 2* battery, and my 1 * battery at Shiloh Church.

As my skirmisher units get eliminated or rendered hors de combat due to condition; the AI moves CSA units through the Hornet's Nest and presses my line. Since I will be soon out numbered, I first pull back all my artillery, supporting that line,to the Landing defenses and then pull back every other brigade in the line until I have them in defense of the Landing proper.

I am still greatly outnumbered but many of the CSA brigades must be arriving in poor condition; I made the assumption based on how quickly the withdrew  and routed. The super CSA brigade was reduced by 1,770 before it got past the Hornet's Nest by mostly Union batteries and the gunboats.

At 2:36 (on the right most timer), Buell's 2nd group of reinforcements arrive along with two batteries. They are able to engage the CSA super brigades as they push toward the VP (having abandoned the flank attack along the river). Those two CSA brigades withdraw right back to the river edge and come under fire by the gunboats as they withdraw.

Day 2, Phase IV.

Buell arrives with all his large divisions (and of course all Union units no matter where they were, are pulled back to the Landing), The battle was really over at the end of Phase III; the Confederates were no longer a threat to take the Landing.

Now it was it becomes simply to begin a slow push south and recapture the remaining VPs. I left a handful of I/II Corp brigades to defend the Landing just in case. Then it was a matter of isolating and destroying when possible the remainder of the CSA units. The only real excitement in the end game was Forrest's Cavalry making a dash toward the Landing VP. Since the Union units at the Landing are not in the best of shape, I sent Buell's one small cavalry detachment north to find Forrest. Forrest bolts east toward the river, and the gunboats take care of the rest.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by BCH
additonal text

[lightningg]

14 hours ago, snake9 said:

Love the mod! thanks.

 

Since 1.23 I cannot not turn variance mod off.  I have it listed as false in the config like before but it will not turn off now.  It doesn't split my army but it still splits the ai army.  Any help?

if you have set false in the AIConfig file in the mod folder but you also have a rebalance folder in the mod folder then try setting false in the AIConfig file in the rebalance folder (hope that makes sense) see if that does it

[pandakraut]

28 minutes ago, lightningg said:

if you have set false in the AIConfig file in the mod folder but you also have a rebalance folder in the mod folder then try setting false in the AIConfig file in the rebalance folder (hope that makes sense) see if that does it

This is likely the issue. I moved the config files into the _Data/Mod/Rebalance folder to keep mod files from getting crossed between the different ones I work on. 

@snake9 If the file location turns out not to be the issue please let me know.

 

[BCH]

First impression of V. 1.23 on MG level

Brigades with muskets are no longer just cannon fodder.

Battles pre-Shiloh are not much different in difficulty, the variance factor keeps it interesting. This time for me on 1.23, Logan's Crossing was exceedingly tough. I Corp brigades suffered more casualties than usual, even with a win. I was able to collect a significant number of '56 Enfields from CSA skirmishers so that was a good trade off even with the manpower losses.

Gunboat changes are significant in my opinion, on Shiloh they provided a bit of parity for the several super-sized CSA brigades.

Shiloh itself was still tough, but to me more balanced. The Union was greatly outnumbered until Buell's 2nd reinforcements arrive prior to the 2nd day. It required a lot of management across the map to pull out the win.

[BCH]

Let's see if I have this correct about scaling.

Scaling takes into account the size of your whole army, not just the brigades deployed for a battle.

[snake9]

8 hours ago, pandakraut said:

This is likely the issue. I moved the config files into the _Data/Mod/Rebalance folder to keep mod files from getting crossed between the different ones I work on. 

@snake9 If the file location turns out not to be the issue please let me know.

 

Thanks for the clarification.  I just had to change the config in the rebalance folder.  Back to more fun now.

[pandakraut]

45 minutes ago, BCH said:

Let's see if I have this correct about scaling.

Scaling takes into account the size of your whole army, not just the brigades deployed for a battle.

Correct.

[BCH]

6 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

Correct.

So...

If I only need 14 brigades for a battle; it makes little to no sense to fill all the brigade slots past that number of brigades. The same conclusion might be made about even filling a third corp with a commander until absolutely needed.

[BCH]

Thoughts on Secure River at MG level with ModV 1.23

The Union gunboats might be a tad too powerful here; they seemed just about right for Shiloh, but here are the figures for Secure River:

All of the Union I Corp Units combined accounted for 4,500 CSA casualties out of 11,711 total; which means the two Union gunboats together accounted for 7,211.

[BCH]

Thoughts on Rendezvous  at MG level with ModV 1.23

I found the CSA AI to be aggressive enough to warrant taking a defensive position in the woods East of the VP and waiting for the Union reinforcements.  I sent a single brigade to take the VP along with the I Corp commander. I used that brigade as a spotter until an overwhelming presence of Confederate forces started advancing on the VP; at which time I pulled that brigade and Corp commander back to the defensive line.

When the Union reinforcements arrived to join the line, I slowly pushed toward the VP; the Union line was backed by four batteries which kept CSA units from mounting any counter-attacks.

Note: The 16th NC brigade seemed to be 'stuck' a bit Northeast of the VP, once they arrived in that position they never moved. I believe this happens on almost all the play through of this battle for me.

 

 

 

[BCH]

Thoughts on Seven Pines at MG level with ModV 1.23

As a lark, I decided to bring five batteries to this battle, as it turned out, that was a good decision ( two batteries of Napoleons, one battery of 10pdrs, 1 battery of Horse Artillery, and 1 battery of 20pdr Parrots).

AI CSA was very aggressive on the flanks, Union artillery kept them from over running the flanks. The 20pdr Parrot battery destroyed the CSA batteries as they came within range; this rendered the CSA batteries mostly in-effective. The remainder of the Union batteries saved the day.

 

[pandakraut]

15 hours ago, BCH said:

Thoughts on Secure River at MG level with ModV 1.23

The Union gunboats might be a tad too powerful here; they seemed just about right for Shiloh, but here are the figures for Secure River:

All of the Union I Corp Units combined accounted for 4,500 CSA casualties out of 11,711 total; which means the two Union gunboats together accounted for 7,211.

The AI on this battle is also pretty terrible. Most of the AI units spend the majority of the battle standing around offering point blank flanking shots to the gunboats. The gunboats have 3k range so that they can hit things at Shiloh. We may have to replace them with the tutorial gunboats that haven't been modified. 

Did the AI artillery target the boats at all?

1 hour ago, BCH said:

Note: The 16th NC brigade seemed to be 'stuck' a bit Northeast of the VP, once they arrived in that position they never moved. I believe this happens on almost all the play through of this battle for me.

It's possible to get most of the AI stuck if you stay out of vision. If we can figure out a semi suicidal AI setting so that they actually move to attack when you start fighting some of their units it would probably improve things.

32 minutes ago, BCH said:

As a lark, I decided to bring five batteries to this battle, as it turned out, that was a good decision ( two batteries of Napoleons, one battery of 10pdrs, 1 battery of Horse Artillery, and 1 battery of 20pdr Parrots).

AI CSA was very aggressive on the flanks, Union artillery kept them from over running the flanks. The 20pdr Parrot battery destroyed the CSA batteries as they came within range; this rendered the CSA batteries mostly in-effective. The remainder of the Union batteries saved the day.

You are very quickly reaching the point where you can probably mass artillery, put a thin line of infantry in front, snipers to spot and win most battles. Even with cutting the artillery perk damage in half they can still be very powerful. The real problem is that in many battles the AI is passive enough that you can sit there and bombard them all day instead of them just rushing your thinly defended batteries.

[pandakraut]

16 hours ago, BCH said:

If I only need 14 brigades for a battle; it makes little to no sense to fill all the brigade slots past that number of brigades. The same conclusion might be made about even filling a third corp with a commander until absolutely needed.

Correct. I basically don't build out a third corps until the very end game. I'll create it to allow unit swapping, but it'll only get rookie units added for the few battles it's actually needed.