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J & P Rebalance Mod by JonnyH13 and Pandakraut 05/06/2023 1.28.4


JonnyH13

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55 minutes ago, HKO2006 said:

Arty not auto targetting skirmishers, it's rare and maybe due to skirmishers disappearing too fast

It's probably the dissapearing act, I've found that AI arty will still prioritize skirmishers if I give them the opportunity.

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"The AI starting XP is determined elsewhere" - yes I was referring to that.

"Change the deploy and corps slots" - I think just +1 to the current max brigades per corps would be good at low AO (nothing about touching max AO) since you really lack brigade slots now for certain early maps (Confederate Side Newport News comes to mind) at low AO unless that was changed.

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39 minutes ago, limith said:

I think just +1 to the current max brigades per corps would be good at low AO (nothing about touching max AO) since you really lack brigade slots now for certain early maps

For various reasons it's not exact, but basically you get +1 slot per deployed division. 6 -> 8, 10 -> 12, 15 -> 18, 20 -> 24. Anything with 5 or less gets +1. So far it feels like this actually makes the early maps easier.

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12 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

For various reasons it's not exact, but basically you get +1 slot per deployed division. 6 -> 8, 10 -> 12, 15 -> 18, 20 -> 24. Anything with 5 or less gets +1. So far it feels like this actually makes the early maps easier.

Thanks for the response. Sorry I said it wrong, I meant max brigades per division, gaaah, unless it was changed as well. Didn't seem to notice that in the changelog.

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I understand the desire to keep people from "cheating" but it seems like as long as this is a single-player game the need to stop cheating is minimal. I think removing an element of the game, skirmishers, really takes a way a part of the game (trying to delay and harass the enemy). I know you open up more slots but dropping from skirmishers for every regiment to one or two units of them really changes things.

It is challenging to find a new way to play without them, which is good, but I just don't think stopping people from cheating, basically on themselves, should be an issue. If people want a challenge they won't cheat, if they don't want a challenge they can cheat.

That's just my 2 cents anyways, I am definitely enjoying the mod!

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11 minutes ago, madmatg said:

I understand the desire to keep people from "cheating" but it seems like as long as this is a single-player game the need to stop cheating is minimal. I think removing an element of the game, skirmishers, really takes a way a part of the game (trying to delay and harass the enemy). I know you open up more slots but dropping from skirmishers for every regiment to one or two units of them really changes things.

I've had a lot of success using the extra slots for skirmishers to fulfill all the normal roles that I would normally use detached skirmishers for. I'm also less likely to throw them away now since I would lose an officer. Since detached skirmishers don't keep unit perks they were relatively ineffective in the mod as well. Of course you can also just bring more normal units with the extra slots, though scaling can get pretty noticeable.

Past that, If you'd like to enable them again you can change disableSkirmishers to false in the Mod/ConfigFile.csv.

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Since I haven't used dedicated skirmishers often:

Any advice for what perks would be best for skirmishers as anti-artillery? Previously I'd just charge a skirmisher into enemy artillery to soak up canisters with an infantry behind it.
Any advice for what perks would be best for skirmishers as anti-infantry stalling?

Edited by limith
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Just now, limith said:

Any advice for what perks would be best for skirmishers as anti-artillery?

Preferably scoped rifles. Stealth/speed will give you more margin for error, accuracy will give better damage. This tends to be very micro intensive, look away for 30 seconds and you can lose the entire unit or at least take $10k + damage in seconds. These are of limited use until you get 1-2 accuracy perks and some decent firearms. You can level them up by giving them basic rifles and attacking flanks while the enemy unit is distracted by infantry. There are a number of 'features' around using long ranged skirmishers so they will take some getting used to.

2 minutes ago, limith said:

Any advice for what perks would be best for skirmishers as anti-infantry stalling?

They do alright on their own, keep them in cover and don't give them any expensive weapons as they will take losses. Try to stay at max range from the infantry so you have the best chance to escape if they charge. The cover perks will help here, though generally you want to use 0-1star units for this. Lategame you could build units with repeaters but you would always want to keep them on the flanks so they aren't taking fire.

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14 hours ago, HKO2006 said:

Arty moving speed is slower if it is right click drag a line to move, in other words, right click each arty units will make them move faster. <- figured this out, one arty doesn't have horst arty perk so move slower, other two have so faster.

 

13 hours ago, chemical_art said:

This is a quirk in general of units with different speeds. It also occurs if you have infantry with different perks and thus different speeds, but the horse perk with its massive speed increase is most noticeable.

Actually, HKO is entirely correct. If you grab a mixed group of units, they'll all move at the relative base infantry speed. If environmental effects like terrain feature, height, and distance are equal, all units will arrive at the same time regardless of type. Unit perks will change speed, and persistent commander perks will also change speed if the group is cross-corps or the commander is type-specialized. If you want non-infantry units to use their maximum normal speed you have to give them individual orders or deliberately group them by type.

This is vanilla behavior and very likely intentional to cut down on hover-micro so the player can "set and forget" group movement.

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1 hour ago, killjoy1941 said:

This is vanilla behavior and very likely intentional to cut down on hover-micro so the player can "set and forget" group movement. 

So, if I'm reading that correctly, that means any and all speed buffs are completely useless unless you move each and every unit with a speed bonus individually?  Hell, does the Corps Commander "Tactics" perk even work with when using group movements?  I almost don't want to go down that rabbit hole and find another massive bug in the game like I found with artillery sizes.

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12 minutes ago, The Soldier said:

So, if I'm reading that correctly, that means any and all speed buffs are completely useless unless you move each and every unit with a speed bonus individually?  Hell, does the Corps Commander "Tactics" perk even work with when using group movements?  I almost don't want to go down that rabbit hole and find another massive bug in the game like I found with artillery sizes.

No, I meant it to be read that speed buffs will always work regardless of how you order your units. :)

Say you have no speed buffs on leaders or units. Say you have 1 cavalry, 1 skirmisher, 3 infantry, and 1 artillery in your selected group and you move them over flat, open ground directly to a new line on an identical facing and directly to their existing front. They will all arrive at nearly the same time.

Now, say you have speed buffs on your infantry and an infantry speed buff on your corps commander. Now, all your infantry will arrive well ahead of your artillery, skirmishers, and cavalry. Because they're "faster" then the rest which are moving at your "normal" infantry speed.

Now, assuming the buffed infantry scenario, say you order your skirmishers, cavalry, and artillery individually. Since they're not grouped, they have no nominal speed to maintain. They'll now use their maximum normal speed to reach the destination. In this scenario, the cavalry will arrive first, followed by the skirmishers, then the infantry. The artillery will be much closer as well since it's generally pretty quick over open ground.

Hopefully I didn't just make that even more confusing. :D

Edited by killjoy1941
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To neatly illustrate the point, you can probably watch a video or two from any YouTuber casually playing the game for their viewers. Watch when they select a large, mixed group and paint a destination for it. After a while, assuming they have speed buffs on units, the buffed units will be really far out in front and arrive well ahead of the rest of the group, sometimes as much as 20 game-minutes ahead. It's especially noticeable with artillery, which will lag far, far behind.

Contrast with players like Aetius or Col Kelly and the like who know the game mechanics, micro well, and play on higher difficulties where speed is godly in vanilla. They rarely use large group moves over long distances, and when they do use group moves, they make them short, with minimal facing changes, and homogeneous unit types. They know that the group move mechanic is designed to keep the group ordered, so they take advantage of single unit maximum normal speeds by individually ordering artillery, cavalry, and skirmishers.

Also note that with this mod, artillery with the Horse Artillery perk can easily outrun non-buffed infantry, which can easily mean they make it to a group line first.

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The thing I'm concerned about is that, if you select multiple units of artillery (and only artillery) they move at a slightly slower pace than if you moved each piece of artillery individually (which, in the case of artillery, is incredibly important).  I'm afraid something like that happens with other units, nullifying any sort of speed bonus.

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17 minutes ago, madmatg said:

I'm on Shiloh with CSA I finished the first day holding all objectives held and it still took me to day 2, I tried it again to make sure I wasn't crazy and same outcome.

When you retried, did you restart the battle from camp? Or a midbattle save? How late in the day was it when you took the point?

The battle is definitely completable day 1, but there have been multiple reports of this issue(with and without the mod). The only known solution at this point is to start the battle fresh and hope it works. There is a theory that you have to take the point early in the day but I don't know that anyone has really proved that always works.

For what it's worth I usually take the landing shortly after that area becomes available and I've never encountered this issue.

I've definitely encountered similar problems on other battles though.

Edited by pandakraut
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I restarted the battle fresh from the battle screen. I took it about as soon as my troops could march from the top of hornets nest map to p. landing

I'm taking it at a similar time to when I would take it on vanilla and this is the first time I've run into this problem. I did hit finish when it came up, maybe I need to wait until the end of the day? I'll try that.

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