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J & P Rebalance Mod by JonnyH13 and Pandakraut 02/19/20 1.26.1

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11 hours ago, MrBean said:

Playing on medium difficulty, confed - is it normal that I have more troops than the Union on the first mission - it felt easier than normal.

Yes, the starting mission of each campaign have been generally made easier. The unit sizes are set for legendary difficulty and every step down in difficulty the AI units will shrink while the player unit size stays the same. 

This probably makes the battle a bit too easy on Colonel and BG difficulties, but given that most players just want to get past the starting battle and move onto the campaign, this seems like an acceptable trade off.

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Is there a link to the 1.21 version of this mod around anywhere. I love all of the hard work you guys have put into the mod, I can't get the wemod trainer to work with the changes however. I know cheating sucks but I find it fun and your changes really make the game so much better. I saw an old post while digging through the pages about getting the trainer to work through 1.21 so wanted to try that if at all possible. Thanks for any help!

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Optimal Brigade Size

Thanks to @pandakrautfor good advice about unit size and its effect on AI

  • Infantry Brigade : 1000-1300 men creates the most 'winnable' scenarios.  And those numbers are in keeping with historical unit sizes.  (I remain gob-smacked at ugcw's insistence that 4500-6000-man brigades are even an option)
  • Cavalry units of 350-500 men echo historical unit sizes - and their tactical/operational efficiencies
  • Artillery units may be more open to variation, but brigades of 12-20 guns seem to work effectively on the field - at least through the early battles

I find that keeping infantry unit size modest works  ... on a number of levels

  • As noted, dedicated Skimisher (actually Ranger/Sharpshooter) units were a historical anomaly - and imo should be included, but restricted

Thanks again, @pandakraut , for framing the impact of unit size on AI.  A natural tendency is to grow the size of units over time - especially given the implicit encouragement of the ugcw interface:  Both the built-in ArmyOrg advancements and 'common sense' say "Bigger is Better".  Not true.  It is useful to appreciate that often "More is Better".

And it would be useful for the ugcw interface to accommodate 'more smaller units' within the command structure.

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Troop Movement ... remains an issue

  • Getting Reinforcements from the edge of the board to the battle is a pain
  • Units don't recognize - or use - Roads ... even if they are on a road
  • Units tend to deploy into battle formation by default ... even if they are at a distance from the battle.  Grabbing a group of units and moving them forward results in the automatic creation of an artificial 'battle line' which is overly broad, slow, and unwieldy

Militaries across the globe have multiple Unit Marching Speeds

Advance : in Battle formation (slowest) ... is the ugcw default

Double-quick : in Battle formation (fast, but tiring) ... is the ugcw "Run"

Charge : in Battle formation (top speed - only for short bursts) ... is the ugcw "Charge"

Route-step : in Column formation (speed without exhaustion) ... can happen in ugcw, but you can't really control it

  • ugcw should include Route-Step as a selectable movement option

The addition of what I am calling 'route step' allows you to swiftly move troops across the field without excessive fatigue

  • The unit automatically forms a Column
  • They can make use of roads
  • but they are not deployed in battle formation
  • and may be more susceptible to artillery

If one of the other modes (advance, double-quick, charge) is selected, the unit automatically deploys into battle formation

For artillery "route-step/column" is the same as "limbered" (i.e. move swiftly/undeployed)

Roads

All units - if placed on a Road - will use the Road to reach their destination by default, if the destination is in the vicinity of the road and they are in route-step/column mode

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12 hours ago, saltkillzsnails said:

Is there a link to the 1.21 version of this mod around anywhere. I love all of the hard work you guys have put into the mod, I can't get the wemod trainer to work with the changes however. I know cheating sucks but I find it fun and your changes really make the game so much better. I saw an old post while digging through the pages about getting the trainer to work through 1.21 so wanted to try that if at all possible. Thanks for any help!

Here is the link for 1.21 https://www.dropbox.com/s/2czznp6fr6njk0u/RebalanceModV1.21.zip?dl=0

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31 minutes ago, dixiePig said:

Infantry Brigade : 1000-1300 men creates the most 'winnable' scenarios.  And those numbers are in keeping with historical unit sizes.  (I remain gob-smacked at ugcw's insistence that 4500-6000-man brigades are even an option)

The base game limited infantry brigade size to 2950. The mod increases the limit so that the AI has more freedom to scale against the player and to generally increase difficulty. Some players also just like giant brigades, so the option is available if they want it.

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Posted (edited)

Hi all,

Thanks Panda and Jonnhy for this great mod.

I'm trying to edit some of the values in configfile and AIconfigfile but it doesn't seem to work. As a test, I changed disable skirmishers to true, but when I start a new campaign (Philippi) I'm still able to detach them. I opened configfile with notepad, changed to true and saved. Could you please tell me if I'm missing something?

Edited by Rookie Captain
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5 hours ago, Rookie Captain said:

Hi all,

Thanks Panda and Jonnhy for this great mod.

I'm trying to edit some of the values in configfile and AIconfigfile but it doesn't seem to work. As a test, I changed disable skirmishers to true, but when I start a new campaign (Philippi) I'm still able to detach them. I opened configfile with notepad, changed to true and saved. Could you please tell me if I'm missing something?

Your process is correct. You just happened to pick a variable to test against that is no longer used in the latest version. I should have removed it from the config file, but never got around to it. A basic guide to the different options(which also isn't quite up to date) is available here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/r5zgrpm0kt11cx3/Config file guide.txt?dl=0

If you've got any other specific questions feel free to ask.

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Panda, do you still post game play videos anywhere? 

If not, do you know of anyone playing 1.26 and posting videos? 

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3 hours ago, gracchus said:

Panda, do you still post game play videos anywhere? 

If not, do you know of anyone playing 1.26 and posting videos? 

Haven't had time to do more videos recently myself. Check out this channel. Fiasco switched to 1.26 mid campaign, I don't recall exactly which battle the change over occurred though.

 

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Posted (edited)

Hi pandakraut. I'm new to the game and am a little confused by the mod updates. I've tried playing both versions at Colonel, but 1.26 seems to be more difficult as compared to 1.26.1.

Update 1.26 limited unit size to 2500. 1.26.1 appears to have much larger unit size (5000, maybe 6000?) and the range of the guns is longer for rifles in 1.26.1 versus 1.26. In addition, I'm getting Harpers Ferry at the start with 1.26.1, but with 1.26 I didn't see HF until late 1862 or early 1863. 

I know Something Compass plays version 1.8, how does one get that version as I can't seem to find it and what are the differences between 1.8, 1.26 and 1.26.1 (in general)? Or maybe I didn't load 1.26 properly, not sure what is going on. The big thing is the difference between 1.8 and the rest of the updates that are on youtube. In 1.8 they don't get very many recruits, but in my play I get tons to recruits. I would like to tone that down as I can't use them,, I usually lack money and weapons.

I appreciate your dedication to maintaining this game.

Edited by Billy Lee
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On 4/17/2020 at 6:56 PM, Billy Lee said:

Hi pandakraut. I'm new to the game and am a little confused by the mod updates. I've tried playing both versions at Colonel, but 1.26 seems to be more difficult as compared to 1.26.1.

Update 1.26 limited unit size to 2500. 1.26.1 appears to have much larger unit size (5000, maybe 6000?) and the range of the guns is longer for rifles in 1.26.1 versus 1.26. In addition, I'm getting Harpers Ferry at the start with 1.26.1, but with 1.26 I didn't see HF until late 1862 or early 1863. 

I know Something Compass plays version 1.8, how does one get that version as I can't seem to find it and what are the differences between 1.8, 1.26 and 1.26.1 (in general)? Or maybe I didn't load 1.26 properly, not sure what is going on. The big thing is the difference between 1.8 and the rest of the updates that are on youtube. In 1.8 they don't get very many recruits, but in my play I get tons to recruits. I would like to tone that down as I can't use them,, I usually lack money and weapons.

I appreciate your dedication to maintaining this game.

It sounds like you had an install issue when you tried 1.26. unit sizes have been at 6k for a while now. Your reports on 1.26.1 sound like it worked though.

1.8 is an entirely different mod that is more of an unofficial patch. All the quality of life and big fixes, almost none of the balance changes. Linked here https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/25750-ui-and-ai-customizations-mod-v181/

 

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Posted (edited)

Hi Panda, if I limit AI brigade size using AI config, does the AI still scale by adding more brigades?  So rather than (say) 5 x 3000 brigades would it scale to 10 x 1500?  Or is there a set number of AI brigades in a battle?

Edited by KeithD
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3 hours ago, KeithD said:

Hi Panda, if I limit AI brigade size using AI config, does the AI still scale by adding more brigades?  So rather than (say) 5 x 3000 brigades would it scale to 10 x 1500?  Or is there a set number of AI brigades in a battle?

The number of AI brigades is fixed for each battle. The mod does override this somewhat by giving each AI brigade a small chance of duplicating.

Something close to what you are describing is implemented in this submod though.

 

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Posted (edited)

CostomizationModGOGv 1.8.1

 

First I must thank you for a great Mod to this game. Even at Colonel level it is a challenge. I am now playing at BG Level. I am almost wanting to change back to BG level. I am a Civil War Buff and have played the old BattleGround series by e-mail. I do own and Play Civil War 2.  The supply, moral and conditioning are just as important if not more so than effectiveness  of a brigade in battle which adds to the historical feel of the game. In vanilla had plenty of officers now I have to swap officers from brigade to brigade in the small battles. Another factor which has changed my style of play is melee, In Vanilla I played fire and maneuver avoided melee, now I had to change my tactics and way of thinking.  There are certain things I miss from the Vanilla game:

1. detaching Skirmishers : Historically units would detach them in battle in front or to a flank. Specialized or specific skirmishers where few such as US Vol.Rifle Sharpshooter companies.

Larger skirmishers did not come into being till some tine in 1864. In game mechanics it draws infantry and Cavalry charges like rats to peanut butter.  Yes a in game cheat to force enemy to charge. I can understand the logic behind the skirmish Units, as drawn from a division not from brigade level

2. The Number of Corps and their size: The vanilla had 5 corps with 5 to 6 brigades with a corps size of 25 to 30 Brigades . It was easier to bring into the large battles the required number of corps and their  required Brigade numbers. Also helped to keep the scaling issue down.  Now I have 4 massive Corps of  8 divisions 40 Brigades each. Real hard to keep the scaling issue down. I now pay with as small a brigade as possible 1000 to 1200 till right before Shilo.Those 2400 to 3500 rebel brigades are a nightmare, Solution? Artillery and fire control using the pause button and hold fire each and every fire fight and towards the end ammo starved.

My question is why the 4 massive Corps in the mod and not the original army organization? Also any way to bring back the original Army organization?

Shilo in the vanilla was a easy victory for me, Now had to replay 4 times to get a draw, after army reorganization as as many times and final a victory with my last organization.

So I am finding out that each battle even the small ones have to be thought thru even before I commit to battle. 

Army organization now, Division : two fire and maneuver brigades 1000 to 1200, one melee brigade 2000, one brigade of artillery keeping a sot open for either artillery, Cavalry or Skirmisher. 

Edited by olddog73153
show version of mod used
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4 hours ago, olddog73153 said:

My question is why the 4 massive Corps in the mod and not the original army organization? Also any way to bring back the original Army organization?

It sounds like you are playing an older version of the Rebalance mod? The latest version 1.26.1 has returned to 5 corps of 30 units and also allows for skirmishers to be detached again (with some added restrictions)

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3 hours ago, olddog73153 said:

By the way what are the detached skirmisher restrictions?

Cool down on reattaching, restriction on detaching when an enemy unit is too close, and reduction in size.

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With all due respect, but is it possible that the mod makes scaling more of an issue?

Iam currently doing a Union campaign on MG (First time with the mod) and Iam facing harsh odds at Logan' crossing. Obviously the mission itself is rather bothersome (the starting position/VP are rubbish) however what really cripples me is the amount of soldiers/experience the AI throwes at me. (In terms of equipment it would seem that things are pretty balanced)

My corps:

19500 Inf (the bulk being 3 big 1 star brigades with muskets, only 6500 men are 2 stars with decent rifles) / 2x 750 Skrimisher  brigades with 1859 sharps)

97 guns (32x 6pdr, 40x napoleons, and some howitzers, ordnance) Only one brigade has 2 stars.

950 Ranged cav

(However I can't deploy all my forces since I got 14 brigades but only 11 are allowed on the battlefield, which means that the AI most often fields about 11000 inf more than me, and has a slight advantage in guns and cav.)

AI:

28000-30000 Inf (Mostly 2 star but there is always one big (3000men) 3 star and a few 1 stars) Line inf is equipped with muskets, the skrimishers (about 2000) however got 1859 sharps

85-105 Guns (Howitzers and Ordnance as far as I can tell)

1300-1700 Melee cav,

Up until now I've beaten the AI soundly in every engagement, (1/5 ratio, sometimes 1/7). Since my casulties were rather acceptable I decided to spend as little ressources as possible on my corps (in order ro increase their usefullness at a later point with a higher economy/training skill. It seems to me that Shiloh is doable with my current corps, however I reckon that I might be too optimistic given my limited experience with the mod. Iam by no means a genius at the game but I found that Vanilla MG was too easy (scaling wise) and therefore thought that MG was an acceptable first choice for the mod. (Never tried Vanilla Legendary)

Got 14000 recruits and 270000 dollars left. Should I just skip the mission or try to get a decent draw?

Tactical or strategic suggestions would be much appreciated.

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The mod definitely increases the impact of scaling. Since the unit size caps have been increased, the AI is able to scale larger than it would be otherwise. The varianceMode also gives a chance for AI units to be larger or duplicate so with some bad luck you can end up with unwinnable scenarios. This is by design as the goal was both to increase difficulty and reduce the players ability to know exactly what was coming at them in every battle.

MG in the mod is probably at least as difficult, if not more so, than Legendary in the base game. Your casualty ratios so far sound fine though.

The major tip for Crossroads is that you don't have to hold the VP and that you have far more time than the timer indicates. My preference is to retreat the starting units back across the river and wait for the reinforcements to arrive. Then I'll cross along the bottom map edge, hopefully trap the AI cav in the corner, and then setup in the tree line to the south of the VP. This lets you fight against units in the open from cover and only parts of the enemy force will engage you.

This example is on an older version and it's almost certainly not possible to get a result this good anymore due to various exploit fixes, but it shows the basic idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2XGuCoqg5A&list=PLNFTAFys32_8_OFQir6FNqGoo0y13UZMm&index=8 Getting away with so little infantry is 100% not viable anymore.

One thing you'll notice is that I'm facing significantly fewer men than you. Part of this is the 750 man skirmisher units you are using. These are an advantage at Shiloh and Distress Call since the AI has no skirmishers to scale, but it does mean you are facing 3-4 very large skirmisher units at Crossroads. The player is free to go up to max size units relatively quickly, but be aware that the AI will scale to match those sizes. As long as you can still beat them, it just means more xp and weapons, but it can make things harder when you are still at an experience disadvantage.

One other thing I wanted to mention, is that there are configuration options for toning down the scaling if that becomes a sticking point for you. If you've got any other questions just ask.

 

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