Jubsies Capital suggestions

[Slim McSauce]

34 minutes ago, victor said:

You deserve this you deserve that. Lazy unmotivated players. You (and some others) like very much tell other players how they should play this game.

But a good game is a game that is funny for everybody.

So it's baiscally this kind of attitude (and developing direction) that is making this game less and less funny for so many players. And we ended up - after130.000 copies sold - with 500-600 players prime time, where the 40% of the players bascially tell the other 60% to go to another server where there are 100 players.

I tell how the game should be by what I consider a fairly refined vision based on my 2 years of playing, and managing to be a salty vet but not salty enough to have grown a beard and catch scurvy (yet)

There is value in offering up many types of player. There 100% is value is offering a good new player experience, there is no value in pretending this game is something it's not.
This game is not a normal MMO, it won't work of the generic MMO strategy. This game is a sim at heart, it's best at delivering it's set and setting perfectly with as little amount of silliness and nonsense as possible.

The game would work just fine as a cut and dry 18th century naval warfare simulator with all the politics, management and strategy involved with such campaigns. It would be way better that way than a goofy half realistic, semi reality following depiction of age of sail, and a fantasy quests and mobs and bosses and dungeons gear loot min/max MMO.

Nothing that has been done since patch 10 made it any closer to a true MMO and in the process the game lost a lot of it's identity trying to cater to everybody and we never saw the growth of population that was promised by voices on the forums who insisted patch 10 killed the game, and we needed to be less "hardcore"(realistic) and more casual friendly in order attract anyone from the outside.

In principle this game is a simulator that acts as an MMO, not the other way around. You can either win over some people who want the most accurate age of sail game on market, or win over nobody trying to cater to the WoW/GW2/RS/AA type of mmo player.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Moria15]

2 minutes ago, Capt Jubal Early said:

Yeah I read your post the other day. I think its way to complex. Simplicity is bliss.

 

IMO.. the words simplicity when added to MMO and sandbox  don't exist in the same context.

What we have now is NOT simple..  you only have to look at any newbie questions in the help channel to realise that..  and most of those questions, while extremely valid, were never touched on in the "tutorial".  The tutorial was designed by a vet for what they think is a newbie and to my mind missed the mark in many ways although it was good in others.

Trade capitals will form because traders like to have the maximum exposure...

I hate to say it but look at EvE online..  each region has developed a trade capital on it's own.. the devs never set them up...  and all the trade capitals are outside the main safe zones because thats where the traders get good stuff..   Local capitals have people selling things but again..  if you want a cheaper price, or better stuff then again,  it's risk v reward.

At the moment, all that is happening is devs playing with rules one by one..  I contend it needs a rethink, but.. and heres the but... I think theres 2 things going on here..  one is what do players want..  second is what does the dev want.  Now.  for example..  we have recently seen what the dev wants it was clearly posted..  and I don't think that is compatable with what a larger number of, can I say, more casual players would want.. so I truly believe that all these posts trying to suggest things like this will continue to be ignored where it matters most.

[Hethwill]

Just now, Moria15 said:

What we have now is NOT simple

Combat wise is NOT simple, a lot to practice is needed. Trying different approaches, practice makes perfect. No spreadsheet will help you.

Logistics are the most SIMPLE.

 

 

 

[Capt Jubal Early]

1 minute ago, Moria15 said:

IMO.. the words simplicity when added to MMO and sandbox  don't exist in the same context.

What we have now is NOT simple..  you only have to look at any newbie questions in the help channel to realise that..  and most of those questions, while extremely valid, were never touched on in the "tutorial".  The tutorial was designed by a vet for what they think is a newbie and to my mind missed the mark in many ways although it was good in others.

Trade capitals will form because traders like to have the maximum exposure...

I hate to say it but look at EvE online..  each region has developed a trade capital on it's own.. the devs never set them up...  and all the trade capitals are outside the main safe zones because thats where the traders get good stuff..   Local capitals have people selling things but again..  if you want a cheaper price, or better stuff then again,  it's risk v reward.

At the moment, all that is happening is devs playing with rules one by one..  I contend it needs a rethink, but.. and heres the but... I think theres 2 things going on here..  one is what do players want..  second is what does the dev want.  Now.  for example..  we have recently seen what the dev wants it was clearly posted..  and I don't think that is compatable with what a larger number of, can I say, more casual players would want.. so I truly believe that all these posts trying to suggest things like this will continue to be ignored where it matters most.

The game is not simple I never said it was haha. The tutorial does need things I agree but that's for another thread.

I agree with your point of view entirely but I think your suggestion is way to complex to implement. It would carve up the makeup of the game entirely and put up extra hard limits people wont like (crafting and trading). 

The safe zone should be black and white. Your either in the safe bit. or not. Not this grey middle ground we have.
Adding layers of reinforcements sounds to complex to code and unnecessary. 

Push the idle players out of the safe zone and trade ports will pop up throughout nations.  





 

[Angus MacDuff]

41 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Aren't we all :p 

Not me, I'm new.  Protect the carebears.  They are part of this game.  That doesn't mean pamper them.  It needs to be much more attractive to leave the safezones and even carebears will venture forth eventually.  To be fair, within 5 hours of starting this game, I was leaving the green zone for better trade opportunities, so it already encourages us to go outside.  Now im solo hunting (and dying) in other peoples waters.  I believe that there is already a progression.

[Slim McSauce]

4 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

Not me, I'm new.  Protect the carebears.  They are part of this game.  That doesn't mean pamper them.  It needs to be much more attractive to leave the safezones and even carebears will venture forth eventually.  To be fair, within 5 hours of starting this game, I was leaving the green zone for better trade opportunities, so it already encourages us to go outside.  Now im solo hunting (and dying) in other peoples waters.  I believe that there is already a progression.

well heck but I aint gonna feed em. Give them an inch they'll take a mile and bury the game in their pacifist hippie ways  

Edited April 24, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Angus MacDuff]

3 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

well heck but I aint gonna feed em. Give them an inch they'll take a mile and bury the game in their pacifist hippie ways  

Note the sub in my profile...."There are two types of vessels out there...Submarines and targets..."   In our game, there is only targets....so lets assure ourselves of a maximum amount.

[Capt Jubal Early]

9 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Any chance for TL;DR version? Not sure if I should click like or not.

Learn to read scrub.

[victor]

1 hour ago, Capt Jubal Early said:

Yeah I read your post the other day. I think its way to complex. Simplicity is bliss.

We shouldn't limit crafting in capitals. Capitals should always be a trade centre but at a increased cost which they are currently. What shouldn't be happening is people fulfilling all there gold grinding, ship building and trading all in one place.

Kill the gold grind force the players out of the caps. 

 

My last two cents: "force" is the wrong word here .... you have to "lure" them out.

If you try to force them, they will quit the game. You have to give them better rewards for going out, not taking away the rewards they have for staying in.

The "stick" policy led us to a deserted server, the carrot one could revert the tide.

[victor]

1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

I tell how the game should be by what I consider a fairly refined vision based on my 2 years of playing, and managing to be a salty vet but not salty enough to have grown a beard and catch scurvy (yet)

There is value in offering up many types of player. There 100% is value is offering a good new player experience, there is no value in pretending this game is something it's not.
This game is not a normal MMO, it won't work of the generic MMO strategy. This game is a sim at heart, it's best at delivering it's set and setting perfectly with as little amount of silliness and nonsense as possible.

The game would work just fine as a cut and dry 18th century naval warfare simulator with all the politics, management and strategy involved with such campaigns. It would be way better that way than a goofy half realistic, semi reality following depiction of age of sail, and a fantasy quests and mobs and bosses and dungeons gear loot min/max MMO.

Nothing that has been done since patch 10 made it any closer to a true MMO and in the process the game lost a lot of it's identity trying to cater to everybody and we never saw the growth of population that was promised by voices on the forums who insisted patch 10 killed the game, and we needed to be less "hardcore"(realistic) and more casual friendly in order attract anyone from the outside.

In principle this game is a simulator that acts as an MMO, not the other way around. You can either win over some people who want the most accurate age of sail game on market, or win over nobody trying to cater to the WoW/GW2/RS/AA type of mmo player.

Just one word (or two): "EVE online". Nuff i said.

And ... yes ... I have become as here below

Edited April 24, 2018 by victor

[Capt Jubal Early]

Just now, victor said:

My last two cents: "force" is the wrong word here .... you have to "lure" them out.

If you try to force them, they will quit the game. You have to give them better rewards for going out, not taking away the rewards they have for staying in.

The "stick" policy led us to a deserted server, the carrot one could revert the tide.

Agreed. Put that one down as phrasing

[Capt Jubal Early]

7 minutes ago, Borch said:

Hear I spent some time looking for it.

 

They discussed the fate of casuals with mods and vets and as mods and vets are experts regarding casuals, noobs, rookies and the likes, they already denied your idea.

Basicaly I almost gave up topics like this seeing Admin's attitude recently but I'll leave you thumbs up hoping that you'll be heard ( good to see someone who still doesn't lost his faith in this great project and is still able to correctly add 20+20).

That's a dam good quote. Interesting as well as the safe zone in its current form is broken anyway so its already broken from what they were talking about there.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Capt Jubal Early

[Capt Jubal Early]

Just now, Banished Privateer said:

I will stay neutral on that topic, no opinion.

Only because your profiting off it in its current form  

It just needs to be black or white. Either do the safe zone properly or remove it entirely. This middle ground is stupid.

[Capt Jubal Early]

3 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

The problem is that we don't get much information about battles other nation 2 nations (that initiated) and count of ships/BR. You don't know if the battle is PvE or PvP, you don't know which side are players, which side are bots, you don't know how many players escaped/died. That's the main troublemaking bottleneck of RoE and OW info. 

I'm not staying neutral because I'm profiting from it, just your solution seems complex and too complicated, why problems are simple and can be solved easier.

I agree on your first point. The roe is to grey.

Second point only joking bae. But I don't think it is complex. The zone should be either Safe or not exsist. There shouldn't be two types of battles in a safe zone. One where you can get jumped when fighting AI and one where you cant.

And there should be incentives to lead players out of the capitals to move players into the OW. Limiting earned income within capitals is a basic first step.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Capt Jubal Early

[Capt Jubal Early]

The question here is @Banished Privateer is the current capital gank fest something you actually think is good for the game? Does it help or hinder new players? If so how can we change it? Should there be 2 types of battles in the "safe" zone?

[Capt Jubal Early]

Quote

Because of all mentioned above - we have no plans to do changes to safezones. Eve online has them and kills you if you attack in safe zones; we have it too. Reinforcement will only allow suicide ganking. All opportunities to attack in safe zones with clever ways will be eventually removed. 

Quote from the devs previously quoted in this thread. They call it a safezone  And from there own words it should be different than it currently is.

[Capt Jubal Early]

In regards to that, the question really is

Is the reinforcement zone working as intended?

[Capt Jubal Early]

3 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

About the capital gank fest, we have never ending circle:

1. Capitals are the most important port in the nation, everything happens there = everyone uses them.

2. Hunters go where the players are.

3. The more you try to make capitals safe, the more players will use them.

4. The more players use capitals, the more hunters will come.

Even if you make reinforcement area 100% safe from everything, hunters will just sail around it like they do now, making it even worse. It will be a bubble no one will be able to leave, it will be like a prison. The way to improve the game is to encourage and give more reasons for players to leave capitals and spread across the map. The more players stop using capitals, the fewer hunters will come. Hunters used to sail all over the map, but when we are starving because we can't find anything for 2-3h of sailing, we go to capitals for gank "feasting" on anything we can find and kill.

Yeah its a pretty good point. Like I said in the OP we need to strike that balance that will make people want to leave the zone or forever be destined to be a bottom feeder grinding for a pittance all day long.

The problem is bigger than the safe zone that's for sure. But I think regardless if theres going to be a safe zone. Make it completely safe. Then focus on incentivising players to move around the map.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Capt Jubal Early

[Capt Jubal Early]

Exactly. The zone as it stands offers way to much for some and nothing other than confusion for new players.