Next big patches: Real currency and Open world user interface update

[victor]

Just now, admin said:

If this change hits current marks will convert of course. 

Thks for the quick answer.

[z4ys]

- Dont allow basic cutters to transport currency. My only concern so far.

[staun]

8 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

I'm a hardcore player and I'm kinda scared of the real transfer of currency and wealth. 

1. How clans will be supposed to pay their maintenance for ports?

2. Where the port income from tax will travel? Does it mean every port owned by a clan will get a clan warehouse? (Would be logical and realistic)

3. What will be the weight of new currencies, because the shouldn't be too heavy?

4. What about mix of both systems? Depositing and withdrawing gold only possible in the major ports with a bank (need some research). This would increase the importance of such ports and traffic while making our lives a bit easier. That method could be taxed and attached to port income.

5. That could increase revenge fleets (which are half realistic but half not). My proposition from the past - the longer you are in battle = the more OW speed boost you should get. Increase turn rate during speed boost for bigger ships. Make speed boost start when client is loaded in OW! Not during loading process, I got friends that end up with 5-10 seconds boost only bit quite useless for them.

1: The money from income in port, if it dosent make enough, you have to get it there.

2: it stays in port, and lost if you lose the port.

3: It should have the right weight, dunno what it is. But if you fill up your ship, I would guess that it effect your top speed.

4: We could put a bank in Freeports and Capitol, But if you want to use it to transfer money from place to place, you have to pay the bank for doing it. Lets say 25%

5: Thats just handholding. There are allready enough of that in the game.

[z4ys]

Just now, Banished Privateer said:

They will be limited by weight for sure. Cutters are a great fishing boats, but easy targets - just the infinite repairs is what bothers me. They should be imho limited to 1 free repair of each.

i doubt the currency will be heavy. I bet you can load millions into a cutter hold.

[Knobby]

Imo this whole discussion about carrying your gold with you goes again to make NA into more and more hardcore mode. I thought we had learned in the past that this is not good for player numbers...

And needing to actually transfer gold for port upkeep, might as well quit my job and start 'working' NA fulltime...

[staun]

1 minute ago, z4ys said:

i doubt the currency will be heavy. I bet you can load millions into a cutter hold.

Hope not. It should have speed consequence to move a lot of gold

[staun]

2 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Sorry man, but OW speed boost is not optimized at all. Useless for big ships, because it takes longer for them to turn the direction they have to go than duration of boost. For players with slow PCs and long loading times they end up with not much of a boost left (game really hates players with slow PCs, but things change slowly for better like longer battle start timer). Also the enemy revenge fleet shouldn't be just waiting right on top of your battle where it started. Ships travel distance in battles. The more time = the more distance. 

How do you call it handholding? It's a compromise between battle instance and OW.

There is allready invisibility and sail against the wind.

[Project Pluto]

Fix economy first. 

[staun]

Just now, Banished Privateer said:

When I talk about OW speed boost, I mean the one combined with invisibility. This mechanic has issues:

1. Big ships sail faster with boost, but don't turn faster. Takes them 15-30 seconds to turn and start sailing the direction they want

2. Invisibility + Speed Boost starts before client is loaded in OW = slow PC users suffer (not me, but my friends do).

I accept there should be a bit help to compensate for the different in speed in OW and battle. I am not a wolf(Top PvP) more like fox, better than s sheep ofc, most of the time it is enough to get away.Think it is fine as it is now, maybe even nerf it a bit.

When we are on the subject on hand holding, maybe we can drop books and upgrades. I know all can get them, But lets be honnest they only helps player to either boost some skills ore reduce some they miss. Let the player be good on his own skilland not some upgrade.

[Demsity]

8 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Careful guys, an increase of the time sinks in the game is not so good.

Radical changes must be wisely thought before implementation. And I can see here a lot of potential problems.

 

Care to share these problems? So that admin can review them.

[Slim McSauce]

I honestly don't like the book drops. I wish skills where learned someway else other than being RNG. What would make more sense to me say all nations have a library of sorts where research is done and information can be collected about methods of the sea.

Somewhat like a skill tree, you start with the basic books and when you use them you gain xp for the next book in the line. Time sailing with these equipped put xp towards your next book once you get back to port.

The top tier rare books could be a collection of items still, but you free up a lot of useless loot from dropping, and cut out the absolute requirement to PVE to attain books (which lets be honest doesn't really add up)

Edited April 23, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[staun]

3 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

It's not enough to get away when you get 10-25 of them waiting outside your battle all over the place  

Books and upgrades have a big share in the game economy. I would even risk saying it's about 25% of the total gold flow. Removing 25% of the market sector will cause a huge imbalance and remove big "money sink" making rich players just more rich (and less advantageous in the battle ) 

Then fix econ,

And how many times do they get you? 1 of 5, 1 of then.

[IceBurg]

On 4/19/2018 at 3:38 PM, Banshee Queen said:

Will there be a wipe cos of this changes?

did you see the word "Wipe" at all in the opening post?

[staun]

2 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Enough times to makes me complain about it. These "revenge fleets" sometimes continue with 3-4 battles and many hours...  until you run out of rig repairs or your enemy is bored enough with the chase and give up. I can't give you a precise count, but I lost more than dozens of ships to that revenge fleeting. 

But pretty sure you still kill more than you get killed.😀

[Guest]

1 minute ago, IceBurg said:

did you see the word "Wipe" at all in the opening post?

Not in the opening post but here

 

[fox2run]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Actually Double Escudo (Or common name Doubloon) was used very actively up to almost 1873

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubloon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_escudo
 

Spanish dollar or pieces of eight or piastr or Real de a Ocho was a legal tender in United States up to 1857!!! 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar

It means General Lee and General Grant and Lincoln himself could have used the pieces of eight in paying for bread for example.  

Not only that: The pricing of equities on U.S. stock exchanges in ¹⁄₈-dollar denominations persisted until the New York Stock Exchange converted first to pricing in sixteenths of a dollar on 24 June 1997, and shortly after that, to decimal 

 

Yannick Lemarchand, Cheryl Susan McWatters:

 

•  

 

Here is an overview from Oxford bibliographies. If you like to go beyond the Google level of things. It was much more complex than sailing around with gold in the cargo:

 

Introduction

Trade and commercial development in the Atlantic world required capital, investment, and financing, both directly and indirectly. Credit was allocated, extended, used, and abused to further growth in various commercial sectors. The circulation of capital was a requisite feature of trade activity, with implications on both sides of and across the Atlantic. It was also a very social activity involving networks of partners and players across time and space. Issues of credit and debt cannot be isolated, therefore, from the broader institutional context: technical, social, and cultural. This article presents selected readings on the role played by credit (and debt) in the economic development of the Atlantic world. The scope is restricted to private rather than public credit, and to the long 18th century. Readings reinforce the nature of credit operations across the Atlantic, including merchant trade, the organization of the slave trade, and agricultural production in the colonies; and within Europe, as merchants and traders sought out operating credit and refinancing of trading activities. The nature of credit and debt cannot be understood without some appreciation for the technical tools, mechanisms, institutions, and laws in which these systems operated. Equally, credit networks were social relations within extensive and extended networks of actors subject to social and cultural norms. These norms can be apprehended more readily through the examination of the attitudes, perceptions, and values of those involved in granting and securing credit. Credit evokes questions of confidence, insolvency, risk, reputation, and trust. How these concepts were interpreted, perceived, and operationalized are important in understanding the evolving nature of the broader institutional context. Finally, while not exhaustive, this entry incorporates readings that provide a comparative dimension to this history, enabling the reader to tease out the parallels in different national histories, the divergent adaptations in various settings and contexts, from which it is possible to weave a common thread to the story of credit and debt in the Atlantic world.

General Overviews

The structure and organization of trade and its impacts on credit and debt have been variously examined with different emphases in terms of networks, the technical evolution of credit and trade mechanisms, geography, and institutional practices. Sheridan 1958 examines the organization and operations of the slave trade and, by extension, offers evidence of the far-reaching web of relations involved in the trade, including the long chain of credit and debt obligations. Anderson 1970 offers an extensive analysis of the English context, confirming how credit and trust relations were linked to the growth of the credit economy and the rise of the bill of exchange. In a large number of studies, three of which are selected as a starting point, Price (Price 1980, Price 1989, Price 1991) has investigated and explored the simple yet intriguing question of “what did merchants do.” Their multifaceted role as purchaser, financier, agent, and social actor was transformed in light of institutional changes during the period. The credit and market linkages across the Atlantic are well documented in Price 1980, an analysis for the British tobacco trade; themes revisited more generally in Nash 2005 with respect to the English merchant trade and its related growth in terms of scale and specialization. Price 1989 is insightful in its analysis of the dynamism in domestic and export markets and their effects on institutional arrangements and infrastructure. Price 1991 provides an important reframing of the research discussion in terms of transaction costs and their impacts on the trading activities, commission sales, and credit operations. Mann 2002 demonstrates how the evolution in insolvency legislation represented or anticipated those of mentalities. Muldrew 2001emphasizes social and cultural practices, facilitating our understanding of the profound changes in thinking that took place at the end of the 18th century.

 

• Anderson, B. L. “Money and the Structure of Credit in the Eighteenth Century.” Business History12.2 (1970): 85–101.

  DOI: 10.1080/00076797000000001E-mail Citation »

   

  Examines the relations between money, credit, and capital formation. Outlines problems of circulation, coinage, and preferences for credit over specie, especially in areas of significant economic growth. Archival sources demonstrate the emergence of the bill of exchange, network, and trust relations as a turning point in the English credit system.

• Mann, B. H. Republic of Debtors: Bankruptcy in the Age of American Independence. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2002.

  E-mail Citation »

   

  A rich work on the evolution toward legislation favorable to debtors and the measures aimed at enhancing the security of credit and motivating risk taking. The entirety was grounded in recurring debates on the nature of insolvency: moral fault or economic failure.

• Muldrew, Craig. The Economy of Obligation: The Culture of Credit and Social Relations in Early Modern England. New York: Palgrave, 2001.

  E-mail Citation »

   

  A stimulating work, at odds with the dominant vision of the beginnings of capitalism, based on multiple printed and archival sources. Examines the relations between credit practices and their cultural significance at a time, in the absence of specie, credit—in the reputational sense—was “cultural currency.”

• Nash, R. C. “The Organization of Trade and Finance in the British Atlantic Economy, 1600–1830.” In The Atlantic Economy during the Seventeenth and Eighteenth Centuries: Organization, Operation, Practice, and Personnel. Edited by Peter A. Coclanis, 93–151. Columbia: University of South Carolina Press, 2005.

  E-mail Citation »

   

  Analyzes and compares the evolution in the roles of the various participants in the transatlantic trade to those of its sources of financing. If London maintained a central position, at the end the actors were not the same as those at the beginning: merchants had given way to industrialists and bankers.

• Price, Jacob M. Capital and Credit in British Overseas Trade: The View from the Chesapeake, 1770–1776. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1980.

  E-mail Citation »

   

  A pioneering study on the financing of the British tobacco trade. Examines in an extensive manner a wide variety of possible sources of financing in order to appreciate their respective contributions: merchant-firm capital, the issuance of “bonds,” bank loans and discounting, and finally commercial credit and the terms of payment agreed upon by intermediaries.

• Price, Jacob M. “What Did Merchants Do? Reflections on British Overseas Trade, 1660–1790.” Journal of Economic History 49.2 (1989): 267–284.

  DOI: 10.1017/S0022050700007920E-mail Citation »

   

  Demonstrates that the dynamism of international trade beyond England and Scotland can be explained in large part by the development of a wide variety of credit practices, by key institutional innovations with respect to commercial and financial affairs, and by the accumulated experience of thousands of firms.

• Price, Jacob M. “Transaction Costs: A Note on Merchant Credit and the Organization of Private Trade.” In The Political Economy of Merchant Empires: State Power and World Trade, 1350–1750. Edited by James D. Tracy, 276–297. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press, 1991.

  DOI: 10.1017/CBO9780511665288E-mail Citation »

   

  Analyzes merchant trade in terms of transaction costs, noting the low cost and flexibility of the correspondent system. Insightful presentation of trade arrangements in various sectors, accounting and control systems, with rich examination of bills of exchange as a credit transfer instrument including the role of insurance in exchange operations.

• Sheridan, R. B. “The Commercial and Financial Organization of the British Slave Trade, 1750–1807.” Economic History Review 11.2 (1958): 249–263.

  E-mail Citation »

   

  In-depth examination of the slave trade and dynamic relations between slave-trade merchants, planters, factors, and commission agents. 

 

ATLANTIC HISTORY

• About Atlantic History »
• M

Edited April 23, 2018 by fox2run

[The Ghost of Sir Edward]

2 hours ago, admin said:

One would argue that because Bank of England started issuing notes in 1695 - trade should not require carrying currency in the time frame of the game, because (assuming venetians and British bankers operate in the area) you could theoretically use notes that would draw onto your main account with one of the banks. We are deliberating on this internally right now.

That is all true and there are even accounts of pirates passing fake checks to buy supplies. That said, there wasn't a magic transfer system in place, the coin still had to be moved by ship at some point so that those transactions could be settled.

36 minutes ago, Knobby said:

Imo this whole discussion about carrying your gold with you goes again to make NA into more and more hardcore mode. I thought we had learned in the past that this is not good for player numbers...

And needing to actually transfer gold for port upkeep, might as well quit my job and start 'working' NA fulltime...

Port upkeep could be solved by the issue of credit from a national bank that clans could settle every month. A single ship or group of ships would be loaded with the necessary amount of coin and then travel to the port to make payment to the bank issuing the credit. It could also be arranged that the clan wouldn't need to make payment in the port in question only at the national capital or even county capital and then it becomes the banks responsibility to provide the currency via ship to it's port branches. And perhaps that transfer could take place in the form of player missions.

[Sella]

 @admin If in the near future you need to carry your spoils back home then it will make more sense to have buildable havens or outposts throughout the map. Pirates will be more hardcore and they won't need actual ports to operate. Plus raids will make more sense now 

[Angus MacDuff]

51 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

They will be limited by weight for sure. Cutters are great fishing boats, but easy targets - just the infinite repairs is what bothers me. They should be imho limited to 1 free repair of each.

unlimited repairs for midshipmen and ensigns maybe.  Or perhaps only the lowest two ranks can use a basic cutter...if you want to sail a cutter after that, you have to buy or build one.  same as a lynx

[Slim McSauce]

2 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

unlimited repairs for midshipmen and ensigns maybe.  Or perhaps only the lowest two ranks can use a basic cutter...if you want to sail a cutter after that, you have to buy or build one.  same as a lynx

or ship insurance that always pays out to atleast 10k, then you'd never have to be worry about needing a free ship

Edited April 23, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Guest]

Personally, I dont think making players carry around money is wise. I understand the value of the idea, but i think it will cause more people to quit. There are those players who will whine about my comments, but I honestly dont care.  What I see is a player base constantly shrinking. New players quickly find out the learning curve is steep, the grind for rank/craft xp and ship knowledge is long, the tutorial is difficult...and now, after they have put in the time for all of that - they go out, make some money and have it stolen on the way home. No way we keep many players... 

[Hethwill]

hmmm... sailin' some bribes for a governor of some port to buy his... hostility towards the present overlords.... hmmmm

[The Ghost of Sir Edward]

10 minutes ago, Headless Parrot said:

Personally, I dont think making players carry around money is wise. I understand the value of the idea, but i think it will cause more people to quit. There are those players who will whine about my comments, but I honestly dont care.  What I see is a player base constantly shrinking. New players quickly find out the learning curve is steep, the grind for rank/craft xp and ship knowledge is long, the tutorial is difficult...and now, after they have put in the time for all of that - they go out, make some money and have it stolen on the way home. No way we keep many players... 

Imo I don't see these changes causing people to quit. Super mods that can only be acquired by the PVP elte, fleet ships that disappear in patrol zones, etc. these cause people to quit, I don't see the creation of physical money as a deal breaker for new players. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by No name, no flag
grammer

[Christendom]

While I still maintain that we have bigger fish to fry....I kinda dig this idea.  Albion has similar system using gold and silver.  

I like the idea that these gankers won’t be getting their magical marks auto put into their wallets anymore and that getting home now needs to be part of the plan.  I can foresee is creating gank fleet issues, but we already suffer from them anyway.  

[Saint George]

I don't understand why we need the new currency"s, other than the historical accuracy perhaps. And I belive most currency of the time, regardless of the nation that minted it, used Gold, Silver and Copper to do it. Adding actual national denominations Seems like it will complicate the economy unnecessarily. Using Gold and Silver and Copper is simple and easy to utilize.