Tutorial feedback 2

[Sir Texas Sir]

46 minutes ago, Archaos said:

 

The final exam is not skill its just knowing the tricks to beat the AI. I still think the final exam should be separate from the tutorial as a separate challenge.

 

Yep just finished it on one of my alts that was my shallow water char and lowest level.  I pretty much did the rage board take first ship, than demast the second after healing up some and crew rums up till I got above 100 again.  Once second ship is demasted I got crew down to half mine and boarded and was over.  The bad part was I DC right as I got into position to shoot grape. I was so pissed but hit the connect to game and got right back into the mission. I would of been very very very piss if lost it at the end, but now I know how to do it pretty simple.  Prob took longer than I should of but now to do it on the other 4 chars, well at least the endurance one.

37 minutes ago, Christendom said:

I logged into an alt yesterday that needed the XP and breezed through the exams and the final.  For the final I just played the angle, kite and focus 1 side game until one was gone.  Then I disengaged, repaired and set upon the 2nd one.  I had to repair another time during that one and hate to kite away from a bit.  Was a little annoying, but not overly difficult.  Actually the most annoying bit was finding out I couldn't trade the new ship to my main account and now I have to go through it again....

I am however not a new player and I don't think the tutorials were enough prep to adequately teach a new player the ropes to pass the endurance test and the final exam.  I also think the notion of only allow players who pass the final able to join clans absurdly stupid and completely counter productive in a game that desperately NEEDS new players.  

I would make the following additions to the tutorials if this were my shop. 

Tutorials - 
- the current 4 are fine
- add an additional one that teaches players to evade fire and sail off and repair
- add another one that teaches them basic OW navigation.  Undock, use map, use protractor, set a course sail and dock back up.
Pass the set of tutorials and that person can now join a clan and is an ensign or whatever

Exams - 
- Rename the endurance one and change to to just 1 enemy.  Call it like "sink and Destroy"
- Remove the final exam portion and replace it with the endurance one.
- Call the entire thing like "leftenant's exam.  Player passes and he is then given the rank just under master and commander

Final Exam - Rename this to be like Advanced Post Captain exam or something like that.  Have this be a separate thing and an in game achievement or title.  Kinda like in world of warcraft where if you wanted to join a certain group you would link an achievement to show you're not a moron.  I'd like the current final exam to be some sort of feather in your cap to separate @admin's men from the boys without excluding too many people and actually retaining players.

Just a few thoughts.

 

I'm pretty much going to agree with Chris on this one as I think added the extra mission, making them seperate from teh main Tutorials would be good things.  The last one should be "Final Advance Exam"  You should also get the xp from these if your all ready MC to go towards your total XP gain in current rank.  I did mine with a char that just made Commadore so still a long grind to RA.  I have one more Commadore and a Flag Captian (the crafter) that could all use the advancement xp towards there final ranking up and I'm sure there are other players mid level that would like the xp boost to there ranking if they are already past that level. It doesn't have to be the whole xp to make that rank, but nice chunk would help.  Also think each Tutorial should give a little xp as you pass them.

[Kawazz]

@admin I'm all for things requiring skill but who in their right mind would take a fir/fir ship with medium cannons out to open world? This isn't realistic. Maybe providing a ship selection/load-out would be better since it would force a captain to use his knowledge/skill to pick the right ship for the job. 

Making it hard is one thing, handicapping the player is another.

[Grimmbit]

That moment right before you fire that last broadside into the last ship in the final exam.

 

 

[Hethwill]

Tutorials

- add gun complement types Tutorial - about the types and the ranges/effectiveness - mediums, longs, carronades

- add ammunition types Tutorial together with the cannon types - chain, grape, double charge, double shot

 

Exams

- add Exam for Carronade use ( mediums is covered on the Endurance, Longs in the demasting )

- Final Exam let the player select the type of armament the player wants to use.

[Farrago]

I don't know what a new player sees after character creation but obviously there needs to be some way of making them aware of the tutorials. I assume in the new UI?

There should be small rewards for completing each tutorial. Remember that new players may not complete them all in one sitting and they start out with 0 gold. Give a few gold for each completed step the first time it is completed. Perhaps a book or basic mod, progressively increasing the rewards.

Time limits for tutorials and exams should be stated prior to start.

Gunnery Tutorial
You say something like "You can release the mouse by pressing Left CTRL". This seems unclear to me. I would explicitly explain it: "While in combat, you can freely move the mouse cursor to make selections by holding the Left CTRL."

Demasting - I agree with some others that it is a pain that the guns keep reloading so fast that you can't keep track when you are on target. It's also not how the guns work in game. Have the reload happen while shooting at the normal speed so if someone is shooting very slowly, he'll see that eventually you are using the same gun but if all guns go empty, instant reload. Since I am not a demaster, this as well as the demasting exam were good practice for me.

Sailing Tutorial - no issues noted but I'd recommend there be more explanation of when and why these manuvers are used. 

Special Maneuvers
Dead in to the wind "Set your yards perpendicular to the wind" but you never say to reraise your sails (They were lowered to 0% in previous step to stop ship).

Pursuit and Capture
You say to aim at the sails and reduce to 60%, you don't mention beginning the pursuit.
When repairing sails the tip says something like you can only repair sails and hulls at the same time every 12 minutes (or something like that). That is actually incorrect. You can't repair sails and hull at the same time ie concurrently. I think there's a translation mistake there. "You can repair either sails or hull, but not both, during a 12 minute repair cycle" would be perhaps more accurate. 

Exams

Was urgent repair ever explained?

If your ship is equipped with repairs, tell the player in advance and also warn them to loot repairs from captured or sunk ships.

Demasting Exam
I've never been much of a demaster. It took me about 6 tries to complete this with the last couple killing the second mast just a little over 10 min. I'd warn players that you mean take down both masts, not 

Endurance Exam
In the description, I would warn the new player in advance that by "Endurance" you mean that the player will need to defeat a new enemy after destroying the first.

Final Exam
I tried numerous times with more traditional tactics of trying to get in to position, angle hull, make shots count, etc. It was not until I watched a couple of videos and saw that either players were demasting the AI or rage boarding that I got close. However, since I'm not usually a demaster nor a boarder, this was a huge challenge.

Heel is huge but I assume it's the same as with a stock Cerb. In fact, if you're still having trouble with the final, it wouldnt be a bad idea to take a Cerb out in open water or do some 5th rate missions to get the feel again. 

Success was with trying to board right away.
    - I couldn't get a board (G) immediately. I had switched off guns to increase board prep so when I finally did get the first guy boarded, I had 100% prep but I had taken 20-30 casualties already perhaps due to the increased casualty rate of board prep sailors.
    - Won boarding action using the Get-Enemy-on-Defend and Shoot-His-Ass with cannons method. 
    - By the time I won the first boarding action, I was down to 90 crew and had a fresh AI with 180+ to face. I switched ships to the AI Cerb, transferred all repairs, sank my original Cerb, then tried weakening the remaining AI a bit before running. (I'd already used rum during the boarding.) I don't know how much benefit I got from using the AI's Cerb. It sure felt stronger. 
    - I ran for 2 repair cycles and one rum cycle and then reengaged with 140 crew v 180
    - I was able to get him down to about the same amount of damage I had, both sides at <50%. Basically it would be who could land the next solid broadside. I decided to disengage for another repair. Ran until I could do a rum and a hull repair.
    - Reengaged with my sides in slightly better shape than enemy, my structure significantly better, and 178 v 177 crew. 28 minutes left. I also could have repaired ship in a couple of more minutes but I don't want to wait anymore.
Exam completed with 22 minutes left.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Farrago

[Moria15]

I cracked the final on both servers but I still don't think it was PvP training as such as I didn't fire a single shot against either of the cerbs.  I just exploited the AI..

Right at the start..  set to boarding and switched off gunnery so I was fully prepped and ready to board.

Rammed the first..  did the attack/fire deck guns   brace brace brace  rinse and repeat..  took the ai cerb and ran away..  used rum twice  (ie 40/50 minutes whilst running away and playing another game on the other monitor),  then rammed and boarded the second cerb and completed the second board with about 30 minutes left.

Not sure how any of that is PvP training,  it's just AI exploitation.

I certainly don't see how it prepares you for fighting an actual player in any way shape or form.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Moria15

[Thonys]

also a point of issue is here is ,we have the level of difficulty 

we have to remember it is the rookie who is doing the tests

and not the veteran

reconsider the level of difficulty (it is known that rookies do not possess knowledge of all the possibilities of the fighting skills at the same time,that is something he /she needs to learn during the game)

in the tests we have a time limit (minutes)(in battle 1.5hours)

especially in the demasting, time is a huge fail factore..and there is no need for that, in that particular exam   

(can be increased to 15 minutes[or he sinks or got the chance to overcome the rng or board and demasts afterwards])

((in case of boarding first,the exam shuts down))

goal is demasting : not time or used tactic.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Thonys

[z4ys]

5 hours ago, Moria15 said:

I cracked the final on both servers but I still don't think it was PvP training as such as I didn't fire a single shot against either of the cerbs.  I just exploited the AI..

Right at the start..  set to boarding and switched off gunnery so I was fully prepped and ready to board.

Rammed the first..  did the attack/fire deck guns   brace brace brace  rinse and repeat..  took the ai cerb and ran away..  used rum twice  (ie 40/50 minutes whilst running away and playing another game on the other monitor),  then rammed and boarded the second cerb and completed the second board with about 30 minutes left.

Not sure how any of that is PvP training,  it's just AI exploitation.

I certainly don't see how it prepares you for fighting an actual player in any way shape or form.

My guess it's less of a preparation to engage into pvp directly afterwards it's more of a try to show a potential player "you will suffer and curse, you will sink, you will repeat, this is not a game for a pussy accept that or leave"

Edited April 21, 2018 by z4ys

[Rikard Frederiksen]

Completed the Endurance exam, but I had to go about it by using the 'Attack > AI Defends > Fire Deck Guns' behaviour in a 'rage board' to get rid of the first ship so I could duel the second ship into the depths. All of my other attempts ended in disaster as I couldn't take down the first Brig quickly enough to be in a good enough shape for the second Brig. Otherwise I can't see how anyone could pass the examination as it currently stands unless they got lucky. I feel as though I got lucky on my successful attempt as it was the only one where I didn't have a yellow/red rudder 90% of the time.

If I were to change the Endurance exam, I'd switch the two Brigs for two Rookie Brigs, or I would otherwise drop it completely and add in a tutorial based around tactical positioning in battle (i.e. angling the hull). As it stands the Endurance exam was far too frustrating for me and reluctant as I was to use the AI's boarding behaviour against it it was the only way I could manage it. I'm not looking forward to the final 'exam' now...

 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Rikard Frederiksen

[Captiva]

I agree with others that there should be more tutorials added that would cover other aspects of the game. Great suggestions by all.

As for suggested wording changes; at the beginning of the endurance exam I believe the player should be informed that he is facing a "very skilled" opponent as opposed to a "very hard" opponent e.g. The exam is very hard -  the opponent is very skilled.

I would also change "overcome the exam" to simply "pass the exam". 

Just for the sake of immersion, I would rename the 'Tutorial' to 'Naval Training Academy'. Passing the 'exams' is how you graduate from the 'Academy'.

[Archaos]

There needs to be a tutorial on the different wood trims and also on the cannon loadouts.

I saw a conversation in nation chat where a new player had just completed the endurance exam and had a Rattlesnake ship note. He had tried to use it and was then faced with choosing the wood and planking for the vessel. As a new player (I believe less than a day old) he had no knowledge of the different wood types and how they can affect the vessel as there is nothing in the tutorial about it. People in nation chat tried to give him advice and in the end he wanted to hold on using it so he could learn more about the woods but as he had already started it there was no option to cancel the selection of wood trim. I think the final advice was to close the game to stop the selection and keep the note. This is not good for new players to manage to complete the exam and then end up with a poor ship because they know nothing about wood trims.

Maybe before the exams there could be a quick rundown on the different woods and how they modify the vessel. Doesn't need to be too detailed but just a brief overview. The same with cannons and carronades. After that maybe give the option in the exam to let the player select their trim and loadout of cannons so they can experience the difference in the battles. This would not make it as frustrating in the exam battles as they could see what difference the setup of the ship can make. 

[Mezcolanza]

Haven't seen this one before. Worth registering for the forums. Too bad my first post is a complaint. Sorry.

I have tried multiple times to finish the Final Exam using the early boarding technique. I finally board one of the Cerberus, win the boarding, and switch ships. I am way down on crew so I run for time to heal and repair. Finally, with about 30 minutes left in battle, I am ready and turn to engage the pursuing Cerberus. However he has turned away and is racing away at top speed. The AI runs straight to an island, then straight through part of an island, through a cove, and then through another part of the island, emerging on the other side and continuing to run away. Needless to say, I didn't have time to catch him before the timer ran out.

We've all seen AI go through land but I've never seen them do it in battle and during the final exam it really hurts. Big bug. F11 submitted.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Mezcolanza

[Hethwill]

On 4/21/2018 at 12:46 AM, Farrago said:

Was urgent repair ever explained?

Yep. There's a moment when your rudder gets damaged and tutorial indicates to use Emergency Repair.

[Serk]

Came back after a few months for the tutorial. It should help a lot.

Small comments:

• I've noticed there is nothing about fore and aft ships. Adding a quick tutorial for manual sailing with them would help.
• Regarding the special manoeuvring tutorial. I would add specific information about getting out of iron and full tacking, especially with fore and aft vessels. It can be a pain the first few times when you don't know what you are doing.
• Finally, I've always considered demasting to be harder than boarding. I'd swap those two in the line up so new player don't hit the  ''demast wall '' too early

Cheers,

Edited April 22, 2018 by Serk

[admin]

On 4/21/2018 at 7:10 PM, Archaos said:

There needs to be a tutorial on the different wood trims and also on the cannon loadouts.

I saw a conversation in nation chat where a new player had just completed the endurance exam and had a Rattlesnake ship note. He had tried to use it and was then faced with choosing the wood and planking for the vessel. As a new player (I believe less than a day old) he had no knowledge of the different wood types and how they can affect the vessel as there is nothing in the tutorial about it.

Description would be added to wood types explaining what each means in the future. 

We will also need to reset the tutorials for everyone on release or closer to release allowing players to pass it again and receive rewards one more time.

[Tomasso il Fortunato]

Who received the rewards shouldn't receive it again .

[jodgi]

15 minutes ago, CaptainSparckles said:

Who received the rewards shouldn't receive it again .

Aww, why so serious?

We suffer so much and you would rob people of a few nice bonuses.

[Tomasso il Fortunato]

😂 suffer 

[Roronoa]

Somehow i feel dump now finishing the Final Exam without chaining/boarding/mast sniping😅

I was half full of water when the second cerberus sank, but hey i did it😁

As many Captains said before: The Tutorial should teach how to tack through the wind as well.

[Capn Rocko]

Overall, I think the tutorial is a great addition to the game. It could use a few minor tweaks, most of which I believe have been covered already.

A few things I would like to mention:

1) It would be nice to be able to toggle (on/off) the objective box. There were times that the objective box was getting in the way of gameplay. 

2) More depth needed in a few areas (ex: explaining the boarding mechanics and tacking better) 

3) Using a bigger ship in one of the tutorials. The tutorial will likely be the 1st thing new players experience in the game. By putting new players in a large ship (even just for a few minutes), you give them a glimpse of end game content and hopefully motivate them to stay in the game longer. Lets face it, there's nothing glorious about sailing a brig. 

[Barbancourt]

Finished everything except the demasting exam on the first pass.  I can't hit the masts enough with single shots, but I found that 2-3 broadside rakes brought both of them down every time.  (The mast hitbox should be way smaller.)   

Maybe a tutorial on executing effective rakes? 

Things I think I remember... 

AI ships shoot their guns at bizarre angles.  Please at least nerf them to normal firing angles during the n00b tutorial! 

Is the bowsprit indestructable during the tutorials?  I tried to shear off the AI ship's bowsprit a few times in the tutorial and couldn't.

The tutorial should explain clearly how your line of sight to the wreck has to line up exactly right to get the X key prompt to loot.  When I was new I didn't know that for a month or more. 

The boarding tutorial should explain more exactly the conditions for the getting the G key prompt for boarding. 

The boarding tutorial should explain how to manage preparation points and use things like counter-attack and disengage.  Use of rum during boarding should be explained.  It should really reveal the flow chart to explain what actions/responses are effective and what aren't.  There's a opportunity here to prevent lots of the usual confusion and frustration over how boarding works. 

Final exam almost got me, but I was able to kite the second ship down from full health, when my own ship was down to less than 30% after dispatching the first enemy.  N00bs might need some prompting on how to kite and survive.  I wonder if a damage counter per broadside for both player and AI might help them gauge how effectively they're shooting relative to the AI at different distances? 

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Barbancourt (rownd)

[Moria15]

Heres a number of things I expected to see in a tutorial that I didn't see anywhere and would, I believe, help as part of a tutorial, and most of these come from watching the help channel in game for a little while.

1)  What's the numbers underneath the guns on the ship UI, and why can't I fit 42pdrs to my snow.  (explain the way gun l;imits work)

2)  What are the wood types.   (explain the various types of wood.. pro's and cons)

3)  What are permanent mods.    (explain books, enhancements and how to fit a ship)

4)  What are perks and how do they work.    (explain options)

5)  What is the fish symbol for  (obvious to most but NOT newbies)

6)  What are buildings and how do they work.  (explain the fact that you can do things other than fight to help produce fighting fleets)

7)  The whole aspect of missions and attacking AI and why some battles close immediately and some don't.    (a lot of experianced players would like to hear this as well)

8    What are reinforcements   (explain safe zones and f8 usage)

9)  Why cant I crew my snow as a midshipman.   (explain ranks and crew numbers based on rank)

10)  What is the meaning of the colour on a ship.. the grey/green/blue/purple   (explain how ships in gam,e actually work)

11)  How do I navigate the map  (explain Open World and ports and regions and other nations)

12)  What are the symbols on the map   (Explain ports and ownership)

13)  Explain missions..  combat, patrol, fleet etc.    (explain some of the things you can do in game)

These are tutorials to bring new players into the game...    The existing tutorials (page 1) are also excellent, but I feel they miss some aspects of larger ship sailing)

The examples are well done.. no issues there as they are all pretty much easy to do, although I see no reason to time limit things like dismasting.

The exams..  endurance and final  should NOT be part of the tutorials.. they are not tutorials.. they should be a seperate section within the game of exams allowing progression to certainb ranks..  and to some extent.. it might be that because of the way they are designed that they should "require" completion before that rank is granted in game even if you have amassed the experience level for that rank seperately.

ie  just because you HAVE the exp for master and Commander.. you still cannot be given the rank until you have passed the exam..  that way..  other players in the game know that if they see M&C or higher, that they didn't just do lots of cutter missions to get it.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Moria15

[Angus MacDuff]

9 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Finished everything except the demasting exam on the first pass.  I can't hit the masts enough with single shots, but I found that 2-3 broadside rakes brought both of them down every time.  (The mast hitbox should be way smaller.)   

Maybe a tutorial on executing effective rakes? 

Things I think I remember... 

AI ships shoot their guns at bizarre angles.  Please at least nerf them to normal firing angles during the n00b tutorial! 

Is the bowsprit indestructable during the tutorials?  I tried to shear off the AI ship's bowsprit a few times in the tutorial and couldn't.

The tutorial should explain clearly how your line of sight to the wreck has to line up exactly right to get the X key prompt to loot.  When I was new I didn't know that for a month or more. 

The boarding tutorial should explain more exactly the conditions for the getting the G key prompt for boarding. 

The boarding tutorial should explain how to manage preparation points and use things like counter-attack and disengage.  Use of rum during boarding should be explained.  It should really reveal the flow chart to explain what actions/responses are effective and what aren't.  There's a opportunity here to prevent lots of the usual confusion and frustration over how boarding works. 

Final exam almost got me, but I was able to kite the second ship down from full health, when my own ship was down to less than 30% after dispatching the first enemy.  N00bs might need some prompting on how to kite and survive.  I wonder if a damage counter per broadside for both player and AI might help them gauge how effectively they're shooting relative to the AI at different distances? 

 

I got the G key and pressed it a bunch for no result.  Then it started pulling and I found that he was boarding me!  Determined defender???  Everything went fine after that though.

[Rikard Frederiksen]

5 hours ago, Oberon74 said:

I got the G key and pressed it a bunch for no result.  Then it started pulling and I found that he was boarding me!  Determined defender???  Everything went fine after that though.

Actually, that was a problem I had. It wasn't really a problem, but I couldn't initiate boarding actions when we were both at a dead stop, flank on to each other and it ended up being the AI doing the boarding.

[Hullabaloo]

On 4/19/2018 at 10:12 PM, admin said:

We agree that exam is hard.
But we wanted it to be hard.
Maybe it will make feel easier for you that itt was harder initially, (cerberus vs bellona) but it failed to pass the approval as everyone in the office (including people not related to NA) had to pass the final after 1 day of practice 2 cerberuses were passed by everyone. i am very confident that everyone can do it. 

My personal feedback was only one - heel is excessive 
But this exam will be much easier once we fix our old pet peeve pointed out by @Banished Privateer - reworked depower separated from sails. And heel needs to be  slightly reduced for light frigates.

I hardly ever PVE, unless its to grind ship knowledge so I freely admit I'm terrible at it, so for me, BRAWLING DOWN the 2 cerbs was hard yes. THE PROBLEM is that completing the exam isn't hard at all - I won't do a spoiler here, but we all know there are a number of ways to complete the exam very easily. (I completed it in under 20 mins on my alt and semi-afk for most of that!). I found it unsatisfying that, provided you had the requisite knowledge of AI behaviour, it's so easy.  I think going up against the Bellona v Cerb (with slightly thicker planking perhaps) would have been better, cos I think the sailing and gunnery skill would have come into it a lot more? With the 2 cerbs the exam is hard because they seem pen from anything less than the most acute angle, even (it seemed to me anyway) at quite long range.  I didn't check but I assume the given ship has low thickness? which makes it very difficult to angle away from BOTH their broadsides and for me didn't seem to fit in with my experiences in PvP,  in particular in a ship with hardwood planking, which most people are going to be using when they get into the game.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Hullabaloo
typo