Tutorial feedback 2

[admin]

18 minutes ago, z4ys said:

 

What I dont like: The exams shows running and kiting wins the game because yardarm to yardarm the player gets outdps'ed by the doubleshot. In the one hand thats how NA is but in the other hand is it wise to educate new players to do so?

The hidden goal of any endurance exam is this
Cut off players who dont fit. 

We dont want all new players - we want the right players who will fit.

Remember we are not making games just for the money - here is a story about our "F*** you" to Apple Inc and money in general  -  described in USA Today - https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/06/25/apple-pulls-confederate-flag-games/29287163/    or polygon https://www.polygon.com/2015/6/25/8846695/apple-confederate-flag-civil-war/comment/313260912

The real goal of the tutorials to cut off whiners right from the start. Let them refund or do whatever. We want the right players in the game. Wrong players will just go refund after couple of attempts. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

14 minutes ago, z4ys said:

23 tries later rng is not in my favor. I am deeply disappointed and sad.

Final exam feedback:

The only mean about the final exam is

-AI is shooting at ridiculous angles

- AI is even penning at these angles

- Ai has doubleshot

 

What i liked: AI seems smarter they sticked together even one got demasted. But can be just me. Fought only a few AIs over the last year. For the record players are in 99% cases worse than those 2 ai's

What I dont like: The exams shows running and kiting wins the game because yardarm to yardarm the player gets outdps'ed by the doubleshot. In the one hand thats how NA is but in the other hand is it wise to educate new players to do so?

I get making this a hard missions but not part of the graduation thing for MC's.   The ship should be auto purple/gold with it being a rare ship.  You prob got about as bad as RNG as I get.  I agree they need limited double shot and I counted. They are reloadign all guns before I'm 2/3's loaded with min so they have faster relaod.  Every time they hit I loose 2-3 ticks. I hit them with a full broad side they loose 1 tick.  I have one irght now down to 60% sails and it's keeping up with me and the one with 98% sails.  They all turn on a dime even with 50% sails.

[admin]

1 minute ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I get making this a hard missions but not part of the graduation thing for MC's.   The ship should be auto purple/gold with it being a rare ship.  

please send this to hercules feedback topic so this suggestion is not lost

[Fenris]

It is too hard. Might be discouraging for new players. Own ship needs another wood type, or more thickness.

[AeRoTR]

It is a good tutorial, but the main problem the new player face will be stucking in the irons while turning into wind. At some point you should show them HOW TO TACK, and want them to try and do it.

Demasting and some other suff are really hard for the beginner.

[vazco]

Demasting exam is harder from boarding exam. I think they should be switched in places.

[z4ys]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

The hidden goal of any endurance exam is this
Cut off players who dont fit. 

We dont want all new players - we want the right players who will fit.

Remember we are not making games just for the money - here is a story about our "F*** you" to Apple Inc and money in general  -  described in USA Today - https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/06/25/apple-pulls-confederate-flag-games/29287163/ 

The real goal of the tutorials to cut off whiners right from the start. Let them refund or do whatever. We want the right players in the game. Wrong players will just go refund after couple of attempts. But this will make a community stronger.

I would say mission accomplished. No problem to sink much bigger ships with a pickle @Banished Privateer but thoses ai's -.-

[Gregory Rainsborough]

I had no problem with the tutorial and expect that people seem to be having problems because they're not firing single shot and not aiming.

The only thing I would change is the endurance test when that additional brig spawns after you defeat the first. Perhaps it should be stated at the beginning that you have to kill two, one after the other.

In the sailing exam you should definitely teach newbies how to tack through the wind.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Gregory Rainsborough

[admin]

18 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I would say mission accomplished. No problem to sink much bigger ships with a pickle @Banished Privateer but thoses ai's -.-

We agree that exam is hard.
But we wanted it to be hard.
Maybe it will make feel easier for you that itt was harder initially, (cerberus vs bellona) but it failed to pass the approval as everyone in the office (including people not related to NA) had to pass the final after 1 day of practice 2 cerberuses were passed by everyone. i am very confident that everyone can do it. 

My personal feedback was only one - heel is excessive 
But this exam will be much easier once we fix our old pet peeve pointed out by @Banished Privateer - reworked depower separated from sails. And heel needs to be  slightly reduced for light frigates.

[Christendom]

+1 for the graphics and overall design of the tutorials

[z4ys]

3 minutes ago, admin said:

We agree that exam is hard.
But we wanted it to be hard.
Maybe it will make feel easier for you that itt was harder initially, (cerberus vs bellona) but it failed to pass the approval as everyone in the office (including people not related to NA) had to pass the final after 1 day of practice. i am very confident that everyone can do it. 

Add a tutorial for fighting vs multi ships in order to prepair for the final exam. Whats is missing are hints to fight more than one ship at the same time.

I agree its hard and i dont say it should be nerfed. People that love the game will stick around and retry till they finally succed the rest will refund or skip like you said.

 

[Vernon Merrill]

Yup.  Final exam was difficult but not impossible.  Dont forget to loot the first ship after you kill it.  

Those extra hull repairs saved my arse.

Made it with 10 mins to spare and one hull rep left....

Whatever you do, DO NOT get in between the two of them.

[z4ys]

Dont know if intended but you can get endless doubleshot in the final exam by capturing the ai and transfer your crew.

Edit:

Not endless ammo but a lot (can not see the number)

Edited April 19, 2018 by z4ys

[ZuLu oNe5432]

4 hours ago, admin said:

same ship as yours. 
Guys.. practice.. all tutorials can be passed by a random 3d modeller with no naval action experience after a good number of tries. 

tip: use single shot.
 

I think difficult is perfect... its right thats called "Final Exam"  Newbies have to try it more then once for understand the mechanics what they can do and what not in battle! But maybe after 1-3 Failure give some little tipps how they can fight better... o/

[Greysteak]

re-posting this here so that it's in the right place:

1 hour ago, Greysteak said:

The endurance exam and the final were pleasantly difficult.  Got caught unprepared in the endurance exam.  That was great.  I don't think they should be easy.

I think the tutorials got most of the important stuff.  The only thing I'd add would be an exercise to use both the rudder and yards at the same time. 

I noticed that the chain usage in the third tutorial is not consistent with the new chain rules.  That was the only thing I thought needed fixing.

Afraid to try the rewards, but I will.

 

 

[Hethwill]

- did all of it it at 1st attempt, even final exam, did capture both enemy ships

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198184764970/screenshot/2421124703734021470

saw nothing out of the ordinary, in a veteran point of view, other than the player ship is not equipped nor perked as we always do with our own ships. They are all the same AI as ever in the OW.

Final exam is hard for the new players but it teaches a lot by attempting several times and trying different things. Not different from fighting AI in the OW in similar conditions. They felt absolutely the same if you ever fought AI with a non equipped, non perked, store bought ship.

- maybe post some tips remembering player of trying demast, grape, etc - combat is highly dynamic and complex and can be overwhelming for a start. I think after the third attempt anyone will start to get the hang of the battle flow.

What is lacking in the Tutorial series:

- Crew management - numbers and transfer crew from stations and blocking the reloads

- Tutorial One before anything else should be a Battle Interface overview showing where the compass is, what the yard lines are, etc

- advanced - Tactics - wind management

[Gregory Rainsborough]

With the Cerbs I just sunk one then boarded the other.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, z4ys said:

Dont know if intended but you can get endless doubleshot in the final exam by capturing the ai and transfer your crew.

i need to check if i inspect inventory again after the swap what kind of build and mods it have

 

[Hethwill]

Just a UI suggestion regarding the Tutorial/Academy book layout

 

Make the markers on the left different colours. Like Blue, Gold and burgundy type of thing. Easier to spot and not get lost on how to continue the tutorials to the next phase. 

 

 

[Hullabaloo]

THE HARDEST PVE mission I have ever done or heard of in thus game ever, IN THE TUTORIAL! are you serious!!!!

 

[Traditional Baby Abuse]

2 hours ago, admin said:

The hidden goal of any endurance exam is this
Cut off players who dont fit. 

We dont want all new players - we want the right players who will fit.

Remember we are not making games just for the money - here is a story about our "F*** you" to Apple Inc and money in general  -  described in USA Today - https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/06/25/apple-pulls-confederate-flag-games/29287163/    or polygon https://www.polygon.com/2015/6/25/8846695/apple-confederate-flag-civil-war/comment/313260912

The real goal of the tutorials to cut off whiners right from the start. Let them refund or do whatever. We want the right players in the game. Wrong players will just go refund after couple of attempts. 

 

[Archaos]

3 hours ago, admin said:

Remember the pve challenge from early 2017 - who knew you can pass the full demasting challenge in less than 10 seconds. Or who knew that you can sink 3 ships in a row in 4 mins?

But how many people were able to do this? The leaderboard was almost the same people daily. I never tried the demasting one but I could usually finish in the top 10 daily on sink 3 ships in a row, you just had to learn the trick with the AI and hoped they would do what you wanted. I would hardly call it skill once you knew how to do it, it was just luck to get the good time and the right ship setup.

I still say the exam defeats the idea that new players can quickly become useful after they have done the tutorial. If the idea was to weed out the new players that are not hardcore and get them to give up, then I think it is a success.

Even the way that you suggested it can be done is a bad way to teach people to play the game, it teaches people to kite and use multiple repairs, do you want PvP to become more like that with battles taking over an hour with kite and repair?

[Tac]

1 hour ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

With the Cerbs I just sunk one then boarded the other.

i did it the other way around boarded the first and sank the second in the ai capped ship with 32 souls aboard me ship   PS it took forever ..

When i repaired the ai ship with 29 crew it went on a long long time maybe a bug?

You can straight out board 1v1 without raking  but take heavy losses and position the boarding so the second AI cerb is on the other side so can't shoot you it only hits AI.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Tac

[z4ys]

3 minutes ago, Tac said:

i did it the other way around boarded the first and sank the second in the ai capped ship with 32 souls aboard me ship   PS it took forever ..

When i repaired the ai ship with 29 crew it went on a long long time maybe a bug?

repair seems to stay active till the max percentage of the repair is achived. But with 32 guys its a long time. In one of my tries i manged that repairtime was almost equal with repair cd lol

[Zoky]

I have done final exam on second try by boarding both ships as soon as I could. Problem is that final exam is not teaching pvp but how to exploit AI. And it is too hard for new players. Last two exams (endurance and final) requires a lot of NA knowledge to be completed. Problem is that those knowledge is not obtained from previous tutorials/exams. Lots of things are not mentioned in tutorials that new guys need to know in order to finish exams. 

1. Boarding minigame is not explained at all

2. Preparation for boarding is poorly explained. "Press 9 to board" is not valid explanation and should be explained more about wait time and danger of being in boarding mode

3. Repairs are not explained at all

4. Chaining is poorly explained which is ironic considering that this patch was in part about chain rework

5. Demasting is poorly explained. There should be mention of different mast sections and their different thickness

6. Crew management is not explained at all

7. Using grape is poorly explained. There should be mention that grape is best used against stern of the ship and there should be mention about range and tactics of grape use

etc, etc...

In general tutorials/exams have completely skipped to teach tactics of PvP so in my opinion they are not valid as tool of teaching PvP and are more of challenge mode for PvE.