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Tutorial feedback 2

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14 minutes ago, WorldEaters said:

so, ive finished the final Exam after 3 trys.

chainshot for 1 cerb, isolate the other sink him, run awayand repair/surgery and then boarded the other, took my sweet time had like 10mins left in the end

So it can be done, but considering a tutorial is aimed at new Players, facing 2 times the same ship as urs (even better since ai bonuses) is kinda hard. and will most likely lead to frustration. so i think a plain field (no upgrades for ai) would be a better soloution. Yes, this would make it very easy for veterans, but those arent the target of a TUTORIAL.

to the rest of the steps i cant say much, allready done those before

Thank you for the feedback

Our thinking was along these lines

tutorial is very easy. (first tab)
challenges are harder (second tab)
final exam is a hard master and commander exam (third tab)

tutorial is easy
exams are hard

I still remember my Dark souls tutorial which i was trying to pass for over 4 hours on a console (decided to get a console for bloodborne).  Also remember the satisfaction on killing that mini boss. The difference with NA was that i could not skip it.

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7 minutes ago, admin said:

Thank you for the feedback

Our thinking was along these lines

tutorial is very easy. (first tab)
challenges are harder (second tab)
final exam is a hard master and commander exam (third tab)

tutorial is easy
exams are hard

I still remember my Dark souls tutorial which i was trying to pass for over 4 hours on a console (decided to get a console for bloodborne).  Also remember the satisfaction on killing that mini boss. The difference with NA was that i could not skip it.

fact is, I think almost noone of the experienced players was able to do the final exam at master and commander level. Same with exams (the last one vs 2 brigs is a bit too hard)

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3 hours ago, NethrosDefectus said:

Tried to demast the second Brig in the Endurance challenge, got over 55 masts hits and they still didn't go down. What upgrades are those guys carrying?

57 hits on the second one as I flat out just sunk the first one by out dps him on like my 3rd tried and I gave up cause I was running out of repairs and couldn't shake the second one off me.  ON the 4th try I got them both sunk.  They tend to do 2-3 tick damage to every one I do so what guns are they using and they are reloading faster than I can so you can't sit broad side to broad side with them.

2 hours ago, Capt Aerobane said:

I would just strip them of their double shot, or give it to players too.

Yah but that double shot should slow down there reload, they are out reloadign and amaging me in both finals.

2 hours ago, admin said:

same ship as yours. 
Guys.. practice.. all tutorials can be passed by a random 3d modeller with no naval action experience after a good number of tries. 

tip: use single shot.
 

Yah I'm going to call BS on this one, while I call myself an average player but I do know the name and can be called a vet.  It took me 5 tries for the first one and I just did my first of the fnialy and gave up. I lost almost all my armor before I coudl get one of them chained down and run to try to only work on one, they spawn to close to each other.  

 

53 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Any proof? We use a Cerberus without any marines and boarding mods against AI with OP boarding stuff. Crew odds to begin should be 3:1 if we want to keep some crew after the boarding. Raking is good to destroy cannons, but rageboarding is not the fastest and best method. Not by using a naked ship at least.

Yah and they aren't stupid AI, they will change at the last moment to match your Attack, Muskets or what not, than you get hit with a very big Crew/Moral cause they have boarding mods/marines/barricas or what not.

51 minutes ago, rediii said:

I consider myself not bad and did it in 25 min with demasting both in 8 minutes and then graping them to board. I don't think it is possible in 10 min

 

 

btw endurance challenge is too hard for new players

I get they are suppose to be hard, but if a bunch of us old timers are having problems and I know a few of them talking aren't bad players, a new player is not going to get them done any time soon at that level.

45 minutes ago, admin said:

10 mins maybe a stretch
but i just heard on a stream - someone just boarded both cerberuses in a row and just used the last second attack/guns trick

They switch there own attacks at the last moment and so far I seen them have max moral.

 

Also how is a ship with 50% sails out turning me and keeping up with me?   These ships must be super tanky/fast and nimble.  It's like they are EPIC version of the ships or soemthing.

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18 minutes ago, rediii said:

fact is, I think almost noone of the experienced players was able to do the final exam at master and commander level. Same with exams (the last one vs 2 brigs is a bit too hard)

made it on first try.

git gud bro ;)

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22 minutes ago, rediii said:

fact is, I think almost noone of the experienced players was able to do the final exam at master and commander level. Same with exams (the last one vs 2 brigs is a bit too hard)

I am sorry man 
But once we started using data actively we know that forum feedback should be discounted heavily for vocal negativity. Forum only talks about problems as happy players play the game and dont spend forum time much.

Data shows that majority of experienced players finish the final exam on the first try.

You will also be very surprised once we add the timer and the name to every challenge (of the player who had the best time). Remember the pve challenge from early 2017 - who knew you can pass the full demasting challenge in less than 10 seconds. Or who knew that you can sink 3 ships in a row in 4 mins?

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I think part one shoud be tutorial. After that part 2 and 3 shoud be like the events in NA-L in seperated Button. So new players must not skip them. And can use them as a shortcut.

Edited by Jim Broadreach

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1 minute ago, admin said:

I am sorry man 
But once we started using data actively we know that forum feedback should be discounted heavily for vocal negativity. It heavily skews to problems as happy players play the game and dont spend forum time much.

Data shows that majority of experienced players finish the final exam on the first try. 

they might do it now on 1st try but not with 1 hour gametime. Dutch nation has 8 guys with final exam yet (atleast I was told that)

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Just now, rediii said:

they might do it now on 1st try but not with 1 hour gametime. Dutch nation has 8 guys with final exam yet (atleast I was told that)

i dont get it about the 1 hour gametime. How does it relate to final exam?

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In my opinion it is fine if the devs want it as a heavy challenge. I actually felt good when i passed the last missions because they were challenging.

But maybe add a note for new players, that they dont have to do them and are able to skip them and retry them later. They might miss that point at the start.

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Finishing exams give great rewards. It's worth time and attention, but the tutorial is missing serious information on basics. I don't think it's too hard but needs some tweaking. 

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Befor i forget about the Tutorial part when the player shoud get his ship out of irons there is a legg. With the tut-steps i think. I let my ship sail backwards and turnt after i get to 90 degrees i saild to the Circle and stopt the ship after that the instructions goes to the next step. 

Will test it tomorrow caus in 6h i must get to work.

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48 minutes ago, admin said:

Thank you for the feedback

Our thinking was along these lines

tutorial is very easy. (first tab)
challenges are harder (second tab)
final exam is a hard master and commander exam (third tab)

tutorial is easy
exams are hard

Not a bad idea.

but for me till i read that i considered all of it as tutorial. means its directet towards new players...

for me the last one was hard, but i allways had the feeling i can do it.. wich after trying diffrent stuff worked out.

 

1st try was just exchange broadsides, dont do it.

2nd try was run and demast with stern cannons, tried to abuse the fact that in a chase the cerb dont have bow chasers (took to long)

finall try was chainshot one, isolate the other sink him, repair and board the second with the sail dmg.

 

so for myself the difficult level was enjoyable, but that feeling i can do it may not be the feeling new players get from the challenge.

 

so, one idea is, if u see the later steps (challenge, finall exam) as not part of the tutorial, dont include it there, rather make it a seperate challenge for rank2/3 so that players that try those have alittle bit more experience.

Edited by WorldEaters
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If you managed to kill the first Cerb it helps to loot it cause they carry reps ;)

But I tend to agree that both "final exams" are too hard for new players. They prob master them later on just for the rewards but they will get faster/easier to M&C rank by using the "traditional way".

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Слишком просто, хотя для ознакомления с игрой людям, которые даже не представляют, что из себя представляет Naval, самое то.

Обучение никак не затрагивает маневры с командой (кнопки 6, 7, 8), нет никакого пояснения, зачем они нужны в игре. Боты, хоть и стали чуть-чуть умнее (научились ходить с одной скоростью), но от голландцев сильно далеко не ушли в своем развитии. =(

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6 minutes ago, Joernson said:

If you managed to kill the first Cerb it helps to loot it cause they carry reps ;)

But I tend to agree that both "final exams" are too hard for new players. They prob master them later on just for the rewards but they will get faster/easier to M&C rank by using the "traditional way".

Ranks will be adapted. It will be more beneficial (time wise) to pass the exams than sail a basic cutter.
In reality if you did not pass a MC exam you would be stuck on a fishing boat forever. Naval action strives to give players a glimpse into realistic age of sail experience

but honestly just like DS video tutorials, there will be a video eventually made by some player showing (we will promote it heavily) how to get the fastest tutorial time, or even cheese it.

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23 tries later rng is not in my favor. I am deeply disappointed and sad.

image.thumb.png.7dc40c2c7754a02568bb23f39183c61a.png

Final exam feedback:

The only mean about the final exam is

-AI is shooting at ridiculous angles

- AI is even penning at these angles

- Ai has doubleshot

 

What i liked: AI seems smarter they sticked together even one got demasted. But can be just me. Fought only a few AIs over the last year. For the record players are in 99% cases worse than those 2 ai's

What I dont like: The exams shows running and kiting wins the game because yardarm to yardarm the player gets outdps'ed by the doubleshot. In the one hand thats how NA is but in the other hand is it wise to educate new players to do so?

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Small UI improvement remark - once someone finishes all tutorials, show him a visible button to go to exams :) I ommited it at first, I'm sure some people will as well.

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18 minutes ago, z4ys said:

 

What I dont like: The exams shows running and kiting wins the game because yardarm to yardarm the player gets outdps'ed by the doubleshot. In the one hand thats how NA is but in the other hand is it wise to educate new players to do so?

The hidden goal of any endurance exam is this
Cut off players who dont fit. 

lwihzVd.jpg

We dont want all new players - we want the right players who will fit.

Remember we are not making games just for the money - here is a story about our "F*** you" to Apple Inc and money in general  -  described in USA Today - https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/06/25/apple-pulls-confederate-flag-games/29287163/    or polygon https://www.polygon.com/2015/6/25/8846695/apple-confederate-flag-civil-war/comment/313260912

The real goal of the tutorials to cut off whiners right from the start. Let them refund or do whatever. We want the right players in the game. Wrong players will just go refund after couple of attempts. 

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14 minutes ago, z4ys said:

23 tries later rng is not in my favor. I am deeply disappointed and sad.

image.thumb.png.7dc40c2c7754a02568bb23f39183c61a.png

Final exam feedback:

The only mean about the final exam is

-AI is shooting at ridiculous angles

- AI is even penning at these angles

- Ai has doubleshot

 

What i liked: AI seems smarter they sticked together even one got demasted. But can be just me. Fought only a few AIs over the last year. For the record players are in 99% cases worse than those 2 ai's

What I dont like: The exams shows running and kiting wins the game because yardarm to yardarm the player gets outdps'ed by the doubleshot. In the one hand thats how NA is but in the other hand is it wise to educate new players to do so?

I get making this a hard missions but not part of the graduation thing for MC's.   The ship should be auto purple/gold with it being a rare ship.  You prob got about as bad as RNG as I get.  I agree they need limited double shot and I counted. They are reloadign all guns before I'm 2/3's loaded with min so they have faster relaod.  Every time they hit I loose 2-3 ticks. I hit them with a full broad side they loose 1 tick.  I have one irght now down to 60% sails and it's keeping up with me and the one with 98% sails.  They all turn on a dime even with 50% sails.

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1 minute ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I get making this a hard missions but not part of the graduation thing for MC's.   The ship should be auto purple/gold with it being a rare ship.  

please send this to hercules feedback topic so this suggestion is not lost

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It is too hard. Might be discouraging for new players. Own ship needs another wood type, or more thickness.

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It is a good tutorial, but the main problem the new player face will be stucking in the irons while turning into wind. At some point you should show them HOW TO TACK, and want them to try and do it.

Demasting and some other suff are really hard for the beginner.

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Demasting exam is harder from boarding exam. I think they should be switched in places.

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4 minutes ago, admin said:

The hidden goal of any endurance exam is this
Cut off players who dont fit. 

lwihzVd.jpg

We dont want all new players - we want the right players who will fit.

Remember we are not making games just for the money - here is a story about our "F*** you" to Apple Inc and money in general  -  described in USA Today - https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/06/25/apple-pulls-confederate-flag-games/29287163/ 

The real goal of the tutorials to cut off whiners right from the start. Let them refund or do whatever. We want the right players in the game. Wrong players will just go refund after couple of attempts. But this will make a community stronger.

I would say mission accomplished. No problem to sink much bigger ships with a pickle @Banished Privateer but thoses ai's -.-

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I had no problem with the tutorial and expect that people seem to be having problems because they're not firing single shot and not aiming.

The only thing I would change is the endurance test when that additional brig spawns after you defeat the first. Perhaps it should be stated at the beginning that you have to kill two, one after the other.

In the sailing exam you should definitely teach newbies how to tack through the wind.

Edited by Gregory Rainsborough
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